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Old 12-17-2017, 02:19 PM   #26
Playlive
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
Let me rephrase.

How would YOU like to play in a game where everyone limped preflop and checked it down so they could get the biggest chance of hitting the BBJ?
Low limit limit games are like that anyway. That is why they play. Especially when the bad beat gets huge. If they flop with no bad beat chance they protect their hand etc. Again the casino doesn't want to pay and looks for any excuse not to. Who cares if someone exposes their hand? It's legal in cash games. Let the players decide in the outcome.
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Old 12-17-2017, 04:39 PM   #27
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

I think that an issue to consider is that generally the BBJ rules require a pot of a certain size. So exposing the hands creates a situation where the players will be sure to build the pot to the required pot size. This has the effect of making it much more likely that the jackpot will be hit in one of the smaller limit games than it would otherwise. In turn this has the effect of discriminating against the larger games which are more likely to have the required pot size much earlier and don't need to collude to build the pot to the required size. So while those players in the larger games are paying their share of the BBJ, they are not really getting their theoretical share of the BBJ.

I say this not defend the casino's specific action in this case, but simply to point out another factor to consider.
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Old 12-17-2017, 04:45 PM   #28
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

maybe this will finally teach these old timers to stop softplaying!
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Old 12-17-2017, 04:52 PM   #29
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

Who soft plays...
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:54 PM   #30
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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Originally Posted by Poker is Rigged View Post
and let me guess... Their "administrative fee" is whatever they want it to be? If that's the case I wonder why some poker rooms choose to not have any promos when they can do whatever they want with the money.
I saw at my local casino in California that they charged an administrative fee of 7.25 per table per hour, so basically that covered the cost of the dealers and then the rake was all profit.
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Old 12-17-2017, 08:49 PM   #31
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

What interest do they have in not paying? It's player funds, even if they do take a fee. Is it that they want to keep the BBJ amount high so players will still play there?
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:52 PM   #32
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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Originally Posted by Playlive View Post
The BBJ is player money not the house. Why can't someone flop a hand that can beat another hand to win?
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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
How would you like to play in a game where everyone limped preflop and checked it down so they could get the biggest chance of hitting the BBJ?
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Originally Posted by Steve00007 View Post
A lot of players actually would like to play in a game like that.

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
Let me rephrase.

How would YOU like to play in a game where everyone limped preflop and checked it down so they could get the biggest chance of hitting the BBJ?
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Originally Posted by Playlive View Post
Low limit limit games are like that anyway.
I don't know how to make this any clearer. Of course low limit games are like that, especially LHE games. But even degens hate playing in environments like that. Nearly everyone who takes poker seriously complains about those games.

As an example, my local casino used to spread 1/2 ... LHE. It was played with 50c chips and had special rules for what happened if the pot was less than the drop. It was loltastic and filled with exactly the crowd you'd expect - jackpot chasers nursing a $10 stack. And it ran for a real long time but nobody outside of the established player pool ever wanted to play the world's crustiest, surliest, jackpot chasingest game. As the player pool literally died off, the bargain basement moved up, now 3/6 is the new 1/2 and 6/12 is the new 3/6.
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Old 12-29-2017, 02:50 PM   #33
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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Why does the casino care? They have to pay out eventually anyway. The money comes from the rake/extra drop. Maybe there's a drop in nit action for a bit but eventually the pot gets built up again, plus the extra publicity about the BB hitting might draw people to that casino.
Protecting the field and ensuring that if a situation comes up again, this won't be used against them they didn't enforce the rules.

The player who exposed his cards basically communicated what he had while there was still action. This is against the rules which is why the casino did not pay.

The title of this thread should be, "Player screws up his chance to win BBJ"
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Old 12-29-2017, 06:43 PM   #34
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

The casino should of course refuse to pay initially since it technically violates the rules. They are potentially vulnerable to a lawsuit if they pay out when they aren't supposed to. Once they're over ruled by higher authority and ordered to pay the jackpot though they're incredibly dumb to keep fighting over it.
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Old 12-29-2017, 08:21 PM   #35
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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Protecting the field and ensuring that if a situation comes up again, this won't be used against them they didn't enforce the rules.

The player who exposed his cards basically communicated what he had while there was still action. This is against the rules which is why the casino did not pay.

The title of this thread should be, "Player screws up his chance to win BBJ"
So in cash people angle shoot all the time by exposing some or all their cards. Now all of a sudden it's no good because it will facilitate the house paying someone with money that isn't theirs.

The humanity!
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Old 12-29-2017, 08:27 PM   #36
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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The casino should of course refuse to pay initially since it technically violates the rules. They are potentially vulnerable to a lawsuit if they pay out when they aren't supposed to. Once they're over ruled by higher authority and ordered to pay the jackpot though they're incredibly dumb to keep fighting over it.
You are absolutely correct. They really have to enforce it. Because there will certainly be more rule-breakers in the future and those people will be able to point to this case that the casino agreed to overlook rules in the past.

I can't see the casino losing here.
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Old 12-29-2017, 08:31 PM   #37
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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So in cash people angle shoot all the time by exposing some or all their cards. Now all of a sudden it's no good because it will facilitate the house paying someone with money that isn't theirs.

The humanity!
You angle shoot during a BBJ hand, you absolutely risk forfeiting the jackpot. I have won one BBJ and have seen quite a few others. When it is apparent that there is a BBJ potential in progress, the dealer/players have gone out of their way to be above board.

Exposing both of your cards when you are first to act on the river is plain dumb. You want to reward a guy who makes a bonehead move? You do that, why have any of the BBJ rules?
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Old 12-29-2017, 09:11 PM   #38
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

Lol at comments here saying to boycott the room. I even saw a comment saying it’s the players money so they shouldn’t even have those rules.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...085916406&_rdr
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Old 01-01-2018, 05:01 PM   #39
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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Lol at comments here saying to boycott the room. I even saw a comment saying itís the players money so they shouldnít even have those rules.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...085916406&_rdr

Casino is protecting the players. The players that contributed to the pool but did not collect should be appreciative that rules are enforced.

The video, supposedly, shows first-to-act exposing his hand. That is communicating his hand which isnít allowed.

Casino will win. If they donít, it will make other future rulings impossible to enforce.
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:14 PM   #40
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

Casino is right in this instance...
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:12 PM   #41
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

Anyone who thinks the casino didn't do the right thing is almost a 100% loser in poker.
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:53 PM   #42
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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Casino is right in this instance...

They are right to at least go through the process.

If they didnít contest it, anybody would be able to communicate their hands in the future.

The ďvillainĒ messed up big time. Powerful lesson when involved in a six-figure hand to follow the rules. Turning your cards over and exclaiming straight-flush is LOL.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:44 AM   #43
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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Anyone who thinks casino EVER do the right thing is almost a 100% loser in life.
FYP
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:58 AM   #44
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

It's not like the monies disappeared... it was rolled over and continued to grow.. the only loser in this instance were the two straight flush hands. The one should probably have waited for the other and cut off his nuts.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:53 PM   #45
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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It's not like the monies disappeared... it was rolled over and continued to grow.. the only loser in this instance were the two straight flush hands. The one should probably have waited for the other and cut off his nuts.
I thought you meant nut straight flush. Good one.

The problem is that I assume the casino put the money back in, it continued to grow, and it was hit by someone else.

So this money now, presumably, would make the casino on the hook for it all.

FYI - there were other losers. I think like 30 or 80 that would have participated also at other casinos.
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:29 PM   #46
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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Originally Posted by jim88hk View Post
I was playing at GVR once at like 10 in the morning and I flopped quad aces which according to the promo screen I suppose to win 450. Played the hand out right (it was a 1/2 game and I raised the flop to a stupid amount just to end the hand since I don't want the other guys money if there is 450 anyway; just trying to be nice) and show the dealer my hand, all set and done they claimed someone won that promo earlier that morning and I only get 25 bucks. I am at a table full of locals but me and they all eventually say oh...thats right. Blah blah blah. The annoying part is there is no proof at all so you never know. However, I kept playing there cuz it's really easy 1/2 there. One can make a lot more at GVR 1/2 than any 2/5 at Aria IMO.

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GVR should have paid you if they forgot to change the promo marketing screen.

They were advertising a $450 prize, for which you were qualified. Too bad if someone working for the casino screwed up.

(Same thing happened to me at Mandalay Bay some years back).
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:32 PM   #47
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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GVR should have paid you if they forgot to change the promo marketing screen.

They were advertising a $450 prize, for which you were qualified. Too bad if someone working for the casino screwed up.

(Same thing happened to me at Mandalay Bay some years back).
Don't they at least have to play to the river? Didn't realize you can flop a hand, bet everyone out, and still qualify for any type of prize. Once the other players fold post-flop, the dealer starts to clean up everything.
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:01 PM   #48
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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Originally Posted by golfnutt View Post
Don't they at least have to play to the river? Didn't realize you can flop a hand, bet everyone out, and still qualify for any type of prize. Once the other players fold post-flop, the dealer starts to clean up everything.
The rule is there has to be $10 total bet post flop in order to qualify. For my hand the other player leads out with a $25 bet and I raised which then ends the hand, so this particular hand qualified.

It was a AAK flop and he folded Kx after my raise. I have a feeling I could have get a few bucks out of him if I just call his bet and go to the turn and river but if I can get 450 anyway I really don't want more of his money at that point; he was young and was telling the table him and his buddies moved out to Vegas to grind 1/2.

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Last edited by jim88hk; 01-02-2018 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:08 PM   #49
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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Originally Posted by jim88hk View Post
The rule is there has to be a $10 bet post flop in order to qualify. For my hand the other player leads out with a $25 bet and I raised which then ends the hand, so this particular hand qualified.

It was a AAK flop and he folded Kx after my raise. I have a feeling I could have get a few bucks out of him if I just call his bet and go to the turn and river but if I can get 450 anyway I really don't want more of his money at that point; he was young and was telling the table him and his buddies moved out to Vegas to grind 1/2.

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Do they even show the turn and river? Do they flash all the cards like a BBJ to ensure all is on the up and up?

That totally bites you didn't get the higher dollar promotion. If you knew it was only $25, I presume you would have tried to get more money from your opponent.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:24 PM   #50
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Re: Red Rock Casino Not Paying On Poker Bad Beat Jackpot

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Originally Posted by golfnutt View Post
Do they even show the turn and river? Do they flash all the cards like a BBJ to ensure all is on the up and up?

That totally bites you didn't get the higher dollar promotion. If you knew it was only $25, I presume you would have tried to get more money from your opponent.
Don't have to show turn or river; I just make sure I show the dealer my hand face up as soon as my opponent folds.

Honestly it's a strange hand experience. Pre-flop I wanted to squeeze as much out of my opponent as possible but after seeing that flop I care more of the $450 instead; guess that's amateur hour for a tourist player like me. Haha. After I re-raised him post flop he tanked for quite a bit before making the fold; a bit surprised he was considering making a call with his hand.

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