Cosmopolitan types = young people who work selling drugs for Pfizer
Palms/Hardrock types = young people who work selling phone book ad space

That will be the distinction between the 'young hip' properties.

Planet Hollywood's poker room has actually done very well for a small room in the past 1 1/2 years. They typically have the same # of cash games you'd expect to find at Caesars Palace.

How is PHo a bad location? I don't play there, but I pass there pretty much every time I walk to Bellagio's poker room. It does fine from my perspective. It doesn't go dark and it's centrally located (w/in the casino) and the casino is centrally located on the strip. I cannot remember the last time I saw no game there...whereas I rarely went to the Hard Rock and having no game was the norm (I went daytime during the week). I've passed through PHo at all sorts of hours...just don't think it's doing badly.

Planet Hollywood is a poor location because it's tougher for locals to drive and park there.

Easy access and good parking are critical location factors for the local poker player base.

This

The same can be said for MGM Grand poker room where the closest parking is the Tropicana. Is parking really that bad at PHo? Exit garage to Sur La Table, walk around to that Halo Bar or whatever it is the back of the casino entrance and there's the poker room. Besides, I think I was talking mainly about being a good location for the strip...which is tourist and convention based.

And the logic of parking doesn't make sense when you guys bring up Hard Rock as the case study. At Hard Rock, you park in the back, walk in past the gym and bam, the poker room was right there on your left. The real comparison should be why Palms is able to attract the locals during the week and Hard Rock was not. Both places seemed to do fine with their weekend crowds and try to have a hip vibe. Both places have ample parking and both places are off the strip.

Whatever, I think we've gotten off topic.

...and I see more than enough locals (really, too many locals) at Bellagio, Aria, Wynn, Venetian, etc. I know the conventional wisdom is that locals value self-parking and easy access like nothing else and can't be bothered to walk 10 feet further to get somewhere, but I don't think it's accurate.

Bellagio, Wynn and Venetian are 3 of the 4 most convenient poker rooms in the city in terms of access (Mirage being the 4th).

Hard Rock has location issues that are independant of parking. Plus, a derth of hotel rooms and critical mass. Was doomed from the start.

I actually don't understand why convenient self-parking is an issue at all. Especially all the whining about MGM. With all hotels offering free valet parking, why are locals so obsessed with self-parking? Since poker players don't have an issue with tipping dealers, cocktail waitresses, chip runners, and even cashiers, I wouldn't think that having to tip the valet parker $2-$3 would be an issue. I always self-park at Wynn just because the location of the garage makes it extraordinarily convenient to the poker room. But when I play at MGM, Aria, Mirage, etc., I just pull up to the valet.

Because waiting 15 minutes for your car from valet isn't fun?

MGM doesnt always allow non guests to valet, then you are greasing more than $3 and thats coming outta your earn.

I have waited for 30+mins at Aria valet and even $10 couldnt get them to move any faster.

Not true. Every hotel will have a "hotel guests only" sign up when it's busy, but it ain't all the time and aside from that, the valet is never full if you grease.

But regardless, I've always wondered why locals are seemingly so lazy. I get wanting to avoid the strip, but really, if you're already driving to Bellagio for example to avoid Aria because it's somehow that much farther or more inconvenient is just moronic. And all the bitching and moaning about poker rooms being too far from the garage just makes me roll my eyes. I know it isn't true of everyone, I know I might be generalizing, but I've heard it here and at the tables enough times now. Nothing in Vegas is that far, traffic isn't THAT bad, and there's tons of parking (valet or otherwise) everywhere. A lot of people don't seem to realize how good they have it.

Not sure why you quoted me and then said what I said is not true, yet you go on to reiterate what I said. Which is basically, valet is closed to the $4 tippers but open to those tipping more.

But then thats a cost of doing business and should come off of your earn.

For example, if I am out with friends and family I valet basically always, its a pleasure and convenient to do so. The cost of doing so is a part of an evening out.

However if I go to play at Aria, I only valet there, so I deduct my valet tips from that sessions earn.

You said it's for hotel guests only, I said that's only sometimes the case (and even when they say it is, it really isn't).

Obv. non of my business, but did you possibly overread the "always"?

I said they don't ALWAYS allow non guests. I also alluded that magically it wont be full if you are willing to grease more than the 'standard' tip.

That is in fact correct.

The slogan is pretty bad. When I check into a hotel I hope everything is right and nothing is "wrong". The commercial on youtube leaves a lot to be desired as well.

That aside, their biggest obstacle will be recouping the $4B. The WSJ article said they would have to equal or exceed Bellagio's earnings for 15 years in a row to recoup the $4B. An impossible feat unless they can match the number of high rollers that gamble at Bellagio. Obv they won't make it on rooms and food.

Finally! Someone with business sense in ITT.

I agree with all this - the slogan is horrible and there is just no way in hell that a bank that large will just sit around waiting for this property to turn a profit in 15 years.

Year 1 - decent pop due to the "new" factor
Year 2 - declining results
Year 3 - horrible results, occupancy down, failure to attract conventions
Year 4 - rumblings from shareholders and investors
Year 5 - FAIL