Hey whats up.

1) TBH it isnt exactly my entire liferoll but a bankroll that I'm willing to spend for this endeavor. As you say if I were to start out playing 5/10 with this roll I wouldnt be in a very comfortable place so Im starting out with 2/5.

2) I have dual citizenship (US/Japan) so I can freely go back and forth.

3) Most of my poker friends in Japan say that Vegas/LA live poker is pretty soft. I dont know to be honest but I'm expecting 5/10 to be a lot easier than 200 zoom. Obviously the two games are very different but I've invested a lot of time in studying this game and think I will have a pretty decent edge.

4) Japan is currently in a poker boom and there should be more and more Japanese players in Vegas/LA. These guys start out online and play very tight ranges so this is bad for the low stakes poker environment....

I will def start out at 2/5, but most of my enjoyment from poker comes from improvement rather than making more money right now. So once I feel comfortable in the live realm Ill be playing a lot more 5/10 and once the bankroll is healthy move up to higher games.

Ive watched a lot of Owen/Neeme. Love their content. Out of all the poker vloggers I think Mariano is the most solid. He either puts in the time to study or has talent. Havent really seen him make a mistake on his vlogs.

Keep in mind that the standard, virtually mandatory answer to any question about how tough the games are at location X is: "They're pretty/really/awesomely soft." NOT:

1. I go there once a week and regularly get my ass kicked.
2. The games are really tough but MOI whups their asses.
3. I've been on a massive heater that has deluded me into thinking I can crush this game at will with one brain tied behind my back.
4. I've averaged a $6 profit over twenty sessions.
5. I've averaged a $50 loss over twenty sessions, but I consume at least $50 in free drinks, so I'm ahead.

The higher stakes games in Vegas are pretty tough--sometimes very tough. You are, to be brutally frank, much more likely to be the hometown/internet hero who comes steaming into Vegas with the idea of dominating the games than someone who actually has the talent and experience to do that.

If it were at all easy, we wouldn't be doing this show-up-every-day job ****.

i would much rather play 2/5 and only have 1-2 tough opponents than play 5/10 and have 6-7 tough opponents. even if your going to make less money its much better for the mindset atleast imo. im just a rec player where 2/5 only goes on the weekends and its usually full of 6-7 tough to decent regs and 1-2 rec players. unless i see the games very good i would
much rather stay at 1/3 and basically never face any tough decisions

I want to play in Texas.

Im assuming you've never played online? Or Stars?
madrobin this is nothing personal but I've read your hand reviews and tbh you're a nit reg at best.
I've played millions of hands online; struggled A LOT in the beginning because ABC poker didn't work. Went to the coaching sites, bought software, read books, learned that GTO wasn't the best way to play at certain stakes, started some exploits versus pool, and finally came to a place where I beat 100z and now having good results at 200z. And yes I do have live experience and have a general understanding of how 2/5 and 5/10 play.

I didn't post this thread to ask whether or not "to go pro".
Cause I already know what all the people on twoplustwo are saying.
Hell even the people that I admire the most say don't do it.

So I would appreciate it if you can stop with the pessimistic negative comments.

This decision was already very tough for me as I was promised a very good and steady career at my job. Already sacrificed a lot but told myself that I had to try. If I end up broke, then so be it, Im still in my twenties and can find a job.

Go on pokerstars and try to beat 25NL with your 2005 poker logic first, then I'll start listening to you.

Temper, temper. I was merely trying to warn you that you're, er, at least the second or third player to be winning in some (weaker) poker environment and conclude that he can now barrel into Vegas and whup everyone's ass.

I don't know what you mean by calling me a "nit reg" based on a few posts I've made, but if you think that you have more manliness than me and you play and win a lot of pots because YER SO DANG AWESOME, well, so be it. I hope you're right.

"You'll probably get your ass kicked, as countless hometown heroes have before" can be interpreted as "pessimistic" if you wish. I call it realistic, just as "If you jump off that roof, you'll probably hit the ground" is realistic.

But heck, as you say, you're young. And young people have to try to prove themselves. So go for it. You're going to lose, but as you say, you can reset everything when that happens and go back to regular life. Only by experience will you learn that winning at live mid-stakes Vegas poker is like taking candy from a gorilla.

You'll probably never be able to estimate, ten years down the road, how much further along you'd be if you hadn't taken a year off to try your poker experiment and blow your life bankroll. But that's along the lines of when you tell your kid not to touch the stove, it's hot and you'll burn yourself. Some learning just has to come from experience.

And BTW I have played online in the past, but after two deposits vanished into thin air along with the companies running the sites, I concluded that only a fool would play online--an environment with no oversight and usually, no recourse for the player. But I don't see how whether I have played online or not has anything to do with your potential success or failure in Vegas.

I'm not calling you a nit reg in relative to myself, but from what I've read you're just in general pretty bad. Have absolutely no idea about this game (not saying that I do, but even from my eyes you're pretty damn bad). And the fact that you're saying pokerstars 200 zoom "is a weaker environment" already proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Ask 10 pros if 200z is "weaker" than 5/10.

What stakes and where do you even play? From what I see you probably only play 1/2 or something, how are you entitled to claim whether or not the mid stakes games are tough?

You never won online right?

So theres this low stakes nit reg guy who I dont even know if he wins at his stakes and can't win online (saying its a waste of money cause there so no oversight....lol), coming in a thread where a young guy is looking up to achieve his dreams and telling him "you're just gonna be a hometown hero who gets dusted by Vegas".

I might be a bit emotional on this but really, you need to see where you stand.

This is a crazy argument to have in 2021.

I have played 5-10 all this month and in may, last year i played like 200k hands of 200z on bovada last year, so i feel like im pretty qualified to speak on what you guys are talking about. IDK what the skill level of 100z on pokerstars is, i imagine its close to 200z on bovada, but probably slightly softer for a couple of reasons that i dont know are a very big deal but if you really want to know i have no problem explaining why i think that later. 5-10 at the Bellagio or the Aria is in my opinion, basically at the skill level of nl50 online.

Youre really disrespecting how much work it takes to be able to win at 100z or 200z online when you say a 5-10 players experience will put him over tooneylunez, and frankly it makes you sound like you dont know what youre talking about. Calling him a hometown hero when hes telling you hes made his bones playing in international player pools, if anything the hometown hero is the vegas live pro. To steal a quote from the great Ryan Fee, "Making it online is like making it in new york city, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere".

60k is more than enough of a BR, hes basically never not going to be the best 2-5 player at any casino in town that hes at, and the only way hes going to lose or go broke is because of things around poker, but not from poker, the skillset to win at 100z or 200z is alot harder to attain than i think people realize. Just dont do drugs, play enough, and dont spend all your money which it sounds like you have a pretty cheap place to stay so that shouldnt be a problem and youll be good to go. Id also recommend playing on WSOP.com, i live in indiana so i cant play on pokerstars so i dont know what it compares to there, so i play on bovada like i said before, but compared to bovada, WSOP is noticeably softer at the 500 and 200nl levels that ive played. Now ill be unsubscribing from this thread idk how i got subscribed to begin with to be honest, but i wish you the best

If live poker can be played in the comfort of your own setting - no tilting behaviors, awkward social interactions, dealers as a huge variable, or just overall interaction with other human in close proximity...

Then yes, live poker is exactly like online.

But hey, madrobin's goal is to live in a seedy hotel in Vegas for a season and walk away with more or less the same amount of money before going to Vegas...

So take his advice for where he comes from.

Right, and your emotional reaction here strongly suggests that you have a vanishingly small chance--perhaps even worse than the average newbie Vegas warrior--of succeeding. If you want to win consistently at NLHE, you have to be dispassionate--as well as objective.

You can shoot the messenger if you wish. I never claimed to be a poker expert--very few people are. I have, however, seen many, many, many friends, acquaintances, and strangers crash and burn at the poker tables in Vegas. Most if not all of them were as self-confident as you, if not more so.

You may have been successful online, but live NLHE is an entirely different animal; the skill sets needed are dramatically different. Plus, your overhead will be greater: the rakes are higher, promo drops cut into your hourly win rate, and the obligation to toke further diminishes your earn. Plus, you'll have overhead--rooms, meals, transportation--that you didn't have at home, sitting cozily at your computer.

But hey, please prove me wrong. Go there, put in some hours, see how it goes.

(And BTW, not that it matters, but every single one of your speculations about me is wrong, including my successes online and live. But I know you were just reacting emotionally to my saying something you didn't want to hear.)

Yes. I've learned how to play live poker in Vegas for extended periods without losing. My goal has been to have fun. I've succeeded.

The hotels I've lived in have been basic but by no means "seedy," unless you consider Extended Stay America properties to be that. I don't know why people on the internet make stupid, unfounded statements such as yours.

What the OP intends to do is something entirely different from what I've successfully done. My experience has simply been to observe the failures of many, many people exactly like him. No shame in that at all. Long-term winning at Vegas NLHE is extremely difficult, and anyone who claims otherwise is simply blowing smoke.

Jeez can we ban madrobin already, Second thread he ruined by saying Vegas games are too tough for anyone to win.

If you are actually beating 100nl zoom on stars you will be the best player at any 2/5 in Vegas.

Thanks for recognizing how tough it is to play in an online environment in 2021. I actually started out playing live poker after watching high stakes poker on youtube in my high school days, thought Ivey Dwan and them were so cool I wanted to be like them (so cliche). Played in Vegas, LA, Bay Area, Asian Countries, always thought poker wasn't too hard. Decided to play on pokerstars starting out at 200NL and absolutely got crushed.

I needed to completely change my game and even my mental attitude towards poker.

Thanks for the recommendations as well Ill definitely be playing some wsop.com

Seems like youre just nit picking to make yourself feel good; the fact that you can't beat the games and aren't successful in your own life just makes you want to pull people down. I've seen people like you before, their egos are hurt because they don't want to see other people's success. And i get that, I graduated from the second best university in Japan when many even my own family thought that I wasn't going to make it and everybody kept pulling me down. After that went to a global company with 50,000 + employees and started out at a manufacturing factory as "the golden boy" and there got a lot hate in the beginning too.

Sure, you might have seen a lot of people come and ago from Vegas. I heard somewhere it was like a 5% success rate after a year or so. I understand that and thus decided to maximize my success rate by playing in some of the toughest environments online. Even then I'm not "self-confident" enough that I'll make it. TBH still fighting anxiety.

I understand the variance in this game. Experienced "the abyss" that DGAF described. Nothing I could've done different to prevent me from that downswing but still during it you think you're just a loser. After a 20+ buyin downswing you think youll come back up again. You get back 5 buyins and think hey its finally coming this way and then another losing session. Then comes the tilt, the depression, thinking that every time you get dealt KK your jamming pre against AA, every time you hit a set on the flop you think theres some type of way your opponent gets there so raise large on a flop you shouldnt be, calling down on the river cause **** they could have missed their flush draw.

I went through all of that and understood that I needed to change my entire mental attitude not just in poker but in life overall.After going through all of that I still want to make this challenge cause poker is the one thing that I've been so passionate about for more than 10 years.

You might have come in here to give a warning to a young idiot knowing nothing what he's about to face. And I thank you for that.

But I already know what I want to do and understand the risks I'm facing.

PS I've played many hours of 2/5 and 5/10 before (successfully), as ive said repeatedly. Can you explain what is so different from online play? What type of strategic adjustments should I make (That was one of the initial questions I had in this thread)? Maybe provide some value in this thread?

Thanks Frorestgrump!

Well, you've already characterized me as a know-nothing nit, and the various cognoscenti on this board have attacked and belittled me for, uh, staying in a cheap hotel (...??), so I doubt that anything I might say would have value for you. Nonetheless, I'll try to answer your question.

1. Online games are much faster. If you're used to online, the pace of live games can seem interminable by comparison. You very well might, in a live game, be forced to fold every hand for two hours. If you can't grit your teeth and be patient, you'll find yourself playing hands just because you're bored.

2. You can take mini-breaks more easily online; live, there might not be any good place nearby to just chill out and relax for ten minutes. At home, you can grab a sandwich from the fridge. Live, you might have to walk to the snack bar, stand in line, etc. The upshot is that you'll get tired more quickly and have less stamina overall in a live game.

3. To state the obvious, the human element is missing online. When an online player transitions to live, he often radiates tells. Also, he's generally poor at reading the body postures, expressions, and conversations of other players.

4. Live costs more. While many here pooh-pooh the rake (I can beat these games no matter what!), the fact remains that live rake is at an all-time high right now. At best, it severely impacts your win rate. At worst, it makes a game unplayable. Then, of course, you must factor in tokes and jackpot drop (this amounts to another rake, depending on what percentage of the jackpot drop the casino retains).

5. Overall, your comfort level will be less. It's noisy; there are multiple distractions; and you have to put in more effort (driving, parking, walking) just to get to the table. Whatever chair you're sitting in will be less comfortable than your office chair at home.

6. The overall skill level of your opponents will be higher than online. Yes, yes, I know everyone here can slaughter the live 1/2 and 1/3 games and in fact, it's considered here to be a mark of weakness to confine yourself to those games. But the thing is---there just aren't as many idiots playing as there used to be. Almost everyone there is at least somewhat competent. And that skill level increases with the stakes. 5/10 games are played at the expert level, with very few exceptions.

7. As far as strategic adjustments are concerned, you have to be prepared to alter your style based on your observations of your opponents. Switching gears, and quickly switching back, is a mandatory skill. Table changes live may not be an option--at least not immediately--so you have to adapt on the fly. Online, you can just turn off your computer and go mow the lawn or something. Live, you've invested some time and effort just to get there and get a seat (waiting list), so you might not want to leave a game that has changed character.

Sonny, if someone as mild as madrobin so easily tilts you all the way to being "a bit emotional" over some internet forum crap, you may be a little premature in implementing your "Live Poker Pro in Las Vegas" plan.

Been here in Las Vegas for a long time, have been in online industry for 20+ years/ All I have to say is , Online play is tougher to play, but life as a live pro is tougher to live. The grind is not just at the poker tables.

Ignore Robin, get some live play coaching from reputable people, and come on out here ....

Someone remind me how to ignore a user?

Wasn't emotional in reality just the words that Ive articulated could've been perceived as emotional and premature. Been through a lot more as an asian born in the states and then going back to Asia looking like an Asian but inside really isn't.

I guess this discussion is meaningless until I actually do it and I'll be sure to write my experience on here whether I succeed or not.

tooneylines - if u get to vegas hit me up. You seem like a genuine good dude. I have won piles in those games and have logged as many hours as anyone. I moved from online to live right after BF. I won lots online too. THere are differences and I would be more than happy to share them with you. I had to make several adjustments when I switched. Lots of online players who were technically quite good were unable to adjust and they flamed out.

"Private Messages" --> "Edit Ignore List"

Dumb as hell, but it must have made sense to somebody.

1. This is good advice as I often hear online players just getting way too bored at the table being card dead and becoming spewy whales.

2. Hm, at times it is harder for online players to concentrate because of the fact that everything is easy to access. Watching youtube videos, laying on the sofa playing smartphone games, netflix on the flat screen are just 10 seconds away. So the mini-breaks can be good or bad. But Ive never found it difficult at the Bellagio or Aria to take a break.

3. This is true.

4. Rake online is extremely high nowadays. I think below 100NL, the Vegas rake should be lower...? Not factoring rakeback though. The LA games are just ridiculous....

5. Ive played a lot of live and hadn't really found this to be a concern of mine but this is a point.

6. This is where you are completely wrong. 10/20 should be pretty tough, but anything below isn't "expert level" for sure.

7. I guess where Im playing (zoom) pool tendencies dont change as much whereas live the play style should differ from table to table. makes sense.

Thats very humbling to hear from a legend; been reading some of your threads and really respect of what you've accomplished. Ill be honored to have a chat with you in Vegas. Thank you.

Can't believe people are still comparing online to live in 2021. Online is easily tougher than live - many live 1/2 'crushers' (lol) have a hard time beating low online stakes. Basic TAG doesn't work as there are more solid players. Online players, lacking visual tells, are usually much better math wise. You rarely get drop-in casual players online - you see that all the time live the tourists/visitors/gamblers more than happy to drop 3+ buy-ins just to 'have fun'.

Someone once said online stake times 10 is equal to live stakes in difficulties - i.e. .10/20 online = 1/2 live. That's not too far off. If you doing well at 200NL online, you should do fine at the 2/5 to 5/10 level. Bankroll and much larger swings than used to would be the challenge.

Patience would probably also be a big adjustment. Going from folding junk and immediately getting another hand (on multi-tables presumably) to folding and waiting minutes to get junk hand after junk hand is going to be a testing. Boredom maybe another. Unlike online where you can distract yourself with other diversions live you are limited to phone/tablet.

Vegas is 'tough' relative to other poker cities because actions are just better outside of Vegas overall. Because it's Vegas, you'll find higher number of regs and pros (sometimes the entire table) at times. Unlike other larger area with organic player pool, Vegas depends on visitors to fill the pool. When it's slow, you have them feeding on each other. However, when it's busy (think big events/conventions) and games blow up you'll find good games like elsewhere.

Good luck. You sound pretty realistic and if you can make the adjustments and be disciplined (and don't find live too boring) you'll do fine.

Edit to add: Make sure you make some friends (non-poker hopefully) so you have a social life outside poker. A lot of grinders make poker their only job/hobby/social thing 24/7 and become burnt out.