Just got back from Vegas, played a lot of 1-1 PLO at Flamingo. It seems like the dealers there are very incompetent as they were making very frequent mistakes in counting and keeping track of the pot. Most of them didn't even know how much you could open for or repot for preflop, and most were unable to accurately keep count post-flop. For example, if the hand was straddled and the max pot-raise was 8, someone could put in 12 and the dealer wouldn't even know or say anything. Or if the pot was 75 on the flop, someone could bet 80 and again the dealer wouldn't know. Or sometimes someone would say pot on the flop, dealer would say it's 70, but in reality it was 75 or even 80. This gives many opportunities to angle in this game.

Those were just the smaller mistakes. But the most egregious ineptitude was that the dealers and the floor people literally did not know how to count a re-pot!

This one hand came up, pot was 65 going into the turn, 3 players. 1st player checks, 2nd player bets 40, 3rd player calls, now the 1st player wants to pot-raise. Dealer thinks and counts, says 185. While the original bettor was thinking about the call, I finally had enough and spoke up, told the dealer that the pot-raise should actually be 225 and not 185. Then a bunch of other players at the table spoke up and agreed with me. The dealer dug into his position and said he was 100% right and that we were all wrong. Said that it's 185 because player 1 doesn't count his own call before the raise. We were all like wtf?? 4-5 other players at the table said that's absolutely incorrect.

It's simple math, pot raise is just the total pot plus 2x the bet. So total pot now is 65+40+40=145. 2x the bet of 40 is 80. So the pot raise is 145+80=225, super simple.

We call the floor, it was a lady, she comes over and says the exact same thing as the dealer! "You don't count your own call before you raise". All the other players told her that that's wrong and that if that's the case then this is the only place in the world that counts pot like that. The dealer and floor were 100% completely adamant that they were correct and this is how the rules are.

In another hand with another dealer, I open to 4, someone behind 3bets to 10, the sb calls, I want to pot so I put in 45, and dealer says I can only pot to 41 because I don't count my own bet of 4. Again it's simple math, 4+10+10+1(BB)=25. 2x the bet of 10 is 20. So the pot raise is 25+20=45.

This is completely ridiculous that they don't even know the basic rules of the game. Is there anything that can be done about this? How do we fix this when the floor themselves are completely clueless? Can the gaming commission be notified?

plo barely runs there so it's not a surprise they suck at counting the pot
what's really bad is there are casinos where plo runs every day and they still can't count the pot right

Yes, the Flamingo PLO is the most frustrating PLO game on the planet. I was super tilted and had to leave the first session I played this summer because of dealer incompetence.

Two players get it in on the turn, and decide to run it twice. Dealer puts out a river card up top, and puts out two cards on bottom, so theres six cards on the bottom runout, wtf??

Different dealer lets UTG open to 10, and a guy 3b to 50 in a non straddled pot. So I guess when this dealer is in the box, you are just playing no limit omaha.

Both of these dealers have been dealing there for years, not one of the temps. Only 3 or 4 dealers know what's going on.

No limit PLO has its obvious flaws, but for a low limit game with confused dealers I would actually prefer it.

Sounds good to me, especially at 1/1! I'm actually looking forward to playing the 1/1 PLO at Flamingo. I usually play 1/2 or 5/5 at Aria, but Flamingo sounds like a fun place to play (aside from dealer incompetence). It seems as if the competition won't be a tough and I can drink even more

At one of the casinos in Paris, France, the PLO dealers use calculators. Of course, calculators would only help if the dealer knows what to calculate.

You are the one who is incorrect in this example.

Well that is embarrassing.

I agree with Karma that your second example is wrong.

I do think your first case is correct and you should have been able to raise by $185 or raise to $225. But your 2x the bet at best obfuscates when trying to explain. It’s just that the call should be part of the pot.

To be helpful:

Pot counting 101 - don't count your own bet when potting.

Best if I explain it.

Consider this. You have to first call the $10 raise in order to re-raise and pot it.

If you count your own $4, the call becomes $14 rather than $10, just like how SB didn't put in $11 instead of $10.

Break down the raise into two different actions:

1. First a call to make all the action correct. $1 (bb) + $10 (3b raiser) + $10 (sb caller) + $10 (your call) = $31.

2. Second to raise pot size of $31.

So if you combine your call of $10 and raise of $31 = $41.

You guys are correct in this example. Since I was the original bettor, I actually do not count my original bet, only matching it to the amount of the raise. Meh bad!, I'm gracious enough to admit when I'm wrong, unlike the dealer/floorwoman lol.

It runs everyday during the WSOP, two tables going most of the time.

Lol NL omaha, just use his cluelessness to your advantage when he's dealing. One of the better ones was this tatted up big bald black dude, think his name tag said he was from Washington. Not only was he counting the amount you could pot to, but he was also counting the actual money in the pot. In this game, all pots post-flop are rounded up to the nearest five, ie if the pot is 41, then you pot 45. So he would keep track and say "pot is 41 for 45".

That’s the problem. Dealers see players who look/sound competent and still occasionally get it wrong. So it’s obviously not as easy as “that guy probably knows his stuff, let’s assume he’s right on that one”.

But it doesn’t run the rest of the year. That means the PLO games are run by regular Flamingo dealers who only know NLHE or by dealers that come to LV for the WSOP (but none of the good ones, they pick other casinos than Flamingo) or by someone straight out of dealing school.

I frequently complain about bad dealers, but the reality is that during the WSOP poker rooms in Las Vegas don’t even have enough good dealers for higher stakes games, especially non-HE ones. Dealing school also isn’t an Ivy League college and doesn’t necessarily attract the same students said college does.

Wrong, it runs off and on throughout the year.

It runs enough they should know how to run the game. I got a plo game running at Harrahs a couple months ago. I fully expected chaos because it never runs there, but the dealers were all on point. They have no plo experience and they blow the Flamingo dealers out of the water. It runs more than enough there, they shouldn't be this incompetent.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Maybe these weren't regular dealers, but fill-ins for the WSOP crush.

Maybe a couple regular dealers at Flamingo know how to deal PLO. Chances are that those more experienced guys deal something like 2/5 NLHE during the series, or another game that rarely runs there the rest of the year. Again, if you’re an experienced dealer who comes to LV to work during the series, you probably don’t pick the Flamingo.

I’m not defending a dealer who can’t count the pot or doesn’t know how to calculate a pot sized raise. I don’t think you should be allowed to deal PLO, even if it’s as low as 1/1, if you can’t do that. All I am saying is that unfortunately there aren’t enough quality dealers in town during the WSOP and the stuff described here is far from the worst stuff that’s happening during the series. I still remember the time when a new dealer came in, announced it was his first time dealing ever and then managed to misdeal his first 3 hands. That was during a WSOP tournament and significantly lowered my expectations going forward.

What does the rule book say? You can get the gaming commission involved if they are running a game differently from what's in their rule book.

When I was staying at the Flamingo in June the dealer told me that no dealer knows how to or likes dealing Omaha

If you went to dealing school and can't deal PLO you shouldn't have passed.

We aren't talking about badugi or badacey here.

You would think if they deal it every night they would have figured it out by now.

Sent from my LML413DL using Tapatalk

Played there Sunday night. I don't like 'rounding up' bets. Should make it easier for dealers. They were OK. Not great. Not bad. When I racked up the dealer in the box was mad because I was helping her. She admitted she struggles with the math. She is up front about it and I respect that.

Sent from my LML413DL using Tapatalk

I play there every year in June/July (for the few days I'm in town) and it's the same dealers every year. They should know how to deal it but a few are really bad. However, the game gets so much action that I think you need to just tolerate some poor pot counting and play the game. I get it can be frustrating but it's worth it in my opinion.

Every one of you is wrong, he owes $6 not $10. His pot bet is $37.

orly

When it comes back to his action there is $25 in the pot:
$1 bb
$4 (his original bet)
$10
$10

He owes $6 for the reraise to $10, making the pot $31. His pot raise is another $31, so his total bet is $37.

the total bet is $41. $37 + original $4

unless you're trolling in which case I guess you got me