Thank you for your replies so far. Some have already been very helpful. I've tried to address everyone who left more than a one-line response (unless they left it while I was typing this behemoth), and the result is this horrendous block of text, but just Ctrl+F your name if you can't find my response to you. Thanks!
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Originally Posted by SenpaiSwift
La is first choice if you can afford it, but between vegas and south florida i'd take florida every time, slightly higher living expenses but much better quality of life imo. I might be biased though bc i honestly don't think i could ever live in vegas.
I cannot afford the beatable games in LA like 5/5 as well as the cost of living. My risk of ruin is too high. All the games less than 5/5, I think, that I found on pokeratlas had very bad rake structures.
In what way is the quality of life higher in SF? What is so bad about Las Vegas? I'm in central Texas right now. Pretty much anywhere is a step up.
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Originally Posted by pure_aggression
I would spend a week in each local and see how you like each spot.
Responding to a couple of your bullet pts:
For Mlife and CET properties, you can easily earn free parking with roughly 75 hrs of play at the poker tables.
There are some decent structured x/5 blind NL games in LA.
That is a good idea about spending a week in each locale. However, I had hoped to be moving in to Vegas by June 1 because of WSOP. If I don't choose Vegas I guess it doesn't matter. I need to think about if this is possible in my timeframe or whether I should expand my timeframe.
As far as the parking, assuming I play equally distributed between MGM and Caesar's casinos, I would need a total of 150 hours of play to get free parking? If I play about seven hours a day for six days that means I need to play 25 days to get free parking. Estimated cost of $18 parking makes this total $450. Not great, but about a tenth of my worst case scenario!
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Originally Posted by JackStraightUp
Two questions.
How much live poker experience do you have? And, where do you live now?
LA is definitely the softest and has good 5/5 games and I've heard the 5/10 game at the Commerce is the nutz. I also don't think your rolled for it.
Vegas vs South Florida? Can you find soft 1/2 games in South Fl 40 hrs a week? Even in Vegas the games aren't always that soft.
If you can swing it I'd try south Florida and Vegas and see which you like better. If you can't this is a great time to start in Vegas and the WSOP is months away.
Oh, and if you haven't been playing live poker much that's another issue.
My live poker experience is very limited. I have never lived anywhere within driving distance of legal cash games. I have played some small tournaments live where I performed okay, but judged the entry fee too high to justify playing them regularly. I currently live in Waco, Texas. There is no poker anywhere here.
I agree with your second paragraph, regarding LA and the Commerce. I am definitely not rolled to play there. I hope you weren't implying I'm not rolled to play low stakes Vegas games though as I've done the calculations and even with a modest winrate my risk of ruin is very low.
Paragraph 3, whether one can consistently find soft 1/2 games in South Florida is a good question and one I'd hoped answered here. From reading previous threads and researching pokeratlas, I think the answer is "yes", but "no" for 2/5
Good advice on paragraph 4.
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Originally Posted by JackStraightUp
I think the bigger question is can you play 30-40 hrs of live poker a week and be happy and not degen off when you're being handed $100 bills every day.
I am not remotely degenerate. I don't even watch sports when there's no action going. I studied probability in graduate school and know playing other games besides poker is spewing money.
I believe I can play 30 - 40 hours of poker a week and be content (I don't know about happy). I deal with monotony very well, am introverted, and don't really care about anything right now besides playing poker and building bankroll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by w00t
I agree with an earlier poster who thought you should go to Vegas during the WSOP, get your feet wet so to speak.
If you go to Vegas during WSOP, I would quickly move up to $2/$5 after a couple of winning $1/$2 sessions.
Your $11K poker roll is plenty for playing $2/$5 here in Vegas.
Heck, we got a local celebrity (the trooper) here in Vegas who plays $2/$5 with a fraction of your poker roll.
I agree about moving timing. I want to get to Vegas during early WSOP season if that's where I'm headed.
But I'm not so sure about your bankroll assumptions. I'll have 11, maybe 12 set aside for bankroll. Luckily I can build 100% on it for a year, so I may be able to move up to 2/5 quickly if I go on a heater or am not much worse than I thought. Still, the risk of ruin for 12k for a modestly winning player is like 3-5% even at 1/2. At 1/3 I'm assuming it's a bit higher. But for 2/5 that is seriously underbankrolled, is it not? Doesn't that make my risk of ruin like 20ish percent? (I haven't done the math right now, going off memory)
@D2CLV
Thank you for the considered response. It's nice to hear from someone who has lived both areas. I will post a similar thread in Florida section as you have suggested.
I don't remember where I got the impression South Florida might be cheaper. Maybe just because it was in the South? And one of my family members told me cost was about the same, but I shouldn't have believed it without checking.
I'm rather confused about South Florida rake structures. I looked on PokerAtlas at all the card rooms and most had similar structure as Vegas rooms (e.g., 10% capped at $5). And I thought they were all no flop no drop in Florida, at least at the 1/2 $200 buy-in games. I had no idea about the promo funds. I just now looked at Hialeh (sp) cash games and the rake sections just said "10% up to $5". So...is that site useless? Where can I find a compendium of actual rake rates, or do I need to contact casinos individually?
And this probably isn't a fair question, but ignoring climate, schools, social life, and everything else not poker: which have you found more +EV, Vegas or SF (in regards to 1/2 and 2/5 separately if they're different answers). And how much of a difference is it?
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Originally Posted by TheChamp11
Vegas also has online poker, so that makes it slightly more worth it.
I'd say you probably shouldn't move anywhere to play poker full time until you are rolled for and consistently beat 2/5.
I wondered about the online poker and also considered Jersey for that reason, but I'm thinking the player pools must be so tiny there's not much edge to be had. Like how much could one expect to make on Nevada Online compared to right before Black Friday on PokerStars?
And there's a problem with the second question. How long does it take for someone to know he can consistently beat 2/5? Being intimately familiar with variance, I would say two to three years? And what's the bankroll requirement for an acceptable risk of ruin for someone who doesn't even know he can beat 2/5? It's infinite, because any finite bankroll will go broke eventually if the player is not +EV. Unless I am ludicrously wealthy to begin with and already in driving distance of a 2/5 game, this information cannot be discovered.
@EastCoastGrinder
Thank you for all the points you made. You make a compelling case for LA--however, I get the feeling you have a larger starting "life roll" and/or bankroll than I do. I don't think I can afford LA right now. My long term plan is to live in LV or possibly SF, then move to LA when I can afford it. But just guessing here, I figure for 5/5 I need something like 60k bankroll and yearly living expenses of 40-50k? Maybe in a few years, man.
And I hear you about the Floridian species! I've lived in the South most of my life but those Floridians have always been kind of scary. The scary ones are mostly in the panhandle though, lol.
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Originally Posted by A_C_Slater
Why is the east coast never a consideration? It is the most civilized area of the country and there's tons of poker games.
I don't know? Where are the best spots for poker on the East Coast? I was only aware of AC and it lost out pretty quickly by comparison to LV/LA/SF. And I read somewhere Baltimore isn't bad but Baltimore? Most civilized area of the country.
Also, cost of living on the East Coast is quite high. Unless the games are insanely good I can't see why it would be better than sunny, balmy LA, or the much cheaper Vegas.
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Originally Posted by rm81
Marlyand ainec. St. Louis actually underrated market. BTW Vegas is not even close to softest 2/5 and 5/10 games.
Where in Maryland? I had heard somewhere Baltimore but I shudder at the idea of living there. Would you mind telling me why it ain't even close or point me in the right direction?
And where are the softest 2/5 and 5/10 games? I'm guessing somewhere in Maryland or St. Louis, but I didn't mean to imply they were globally softest in Vegas. I meant in my comparison of LV/LA/SF, LV is probably softer at the stakes I mentioned. And I'm not trying to be snarky--genuinely interested if there are areas I've overlooked.
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Originally Posted by mrducks
If you hate moving cross country and you are considering the three markets you mentioned and all of your assumptions are true, then go to LV and when you move up to 5/10nl+, move 3.5 hours away to LA. That seems like the MOST logical answer if all the assumptions you made in your original post are true.
If you are looking for game selection and being able to walk between multiple casino options, then Vegas wins hands down. If you need 2-4 casinos within driving range, I'm sure you can find this in Philly/NJ and the Maryland/DC area as well in addition to your three choices mentioned.
I agree with earlier posters who said do a trip to each of the places and see how it feels. You can do a short term rental (2 weeks to a month) at the locations you are considering and take it from there.
For cost of living, Vegas is the cheapest option and I live in Vegas. There is a ton to do here and it's actually a great city to live in. The only negative I would say is the dating scene as it is a pretty transient town and a lot of the smart/good looking women work in the entertainment industry and...well, there are issues with this. There are some good ones but many tend to move away from here after a while in the entertainment business.
Thank you for your considered advice.
1) Your first paragraph is exactly where I was at now in my current plan until I started having doubts about maybe SF being better than Vegas. Awaiting answers/clarifications from others and additional research, it is probably still the best plan.
2) I had not considered Philly/NJ aside from AC, or Maryland/DC at all. I didn't even know there were this many casinos without terrible rake because I thought almost everywhere banned percentage rakes. East Coast is my least favorite part of the country, though. I could get over it for poker's sake, but yuck.
3) This is a good idea but the more places I visit, the later I arrive in Vegas if I decide on Vegas, and I want that WSOP bustout money.
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Originally Posted by unta8
LA. It's been said before but Vegas is a very poor city and LA is a very rich city. These LA degenerates have more money than they know what do to with and theres like 15 million of them.
OTOH, a friend of mine put it in perspective pretty well last week. He plays 5/T in Vegas. He says on the whole the games are tougher in Vegas but they get much bigger whales (debatable IMO but not too crazy of a statement.) He said LA COL is 3x Vegas and he doubts his LA hourly is 3x what he makes in LV. Idk. Games in LA have to be more exciting / less backpacks / headphones / poker player starter kits.
LA is also a very expensive city. And plenty of LA degenerates head down to Vegas as it's a 1 hour flight and 4 hour drive, right? From my research I'm guessing 5/10 in LV and LA are close, probably a little better in LV due to cost of living but livable in both, and then anything higher than that (10/20, 20/40) is LA all the way.
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Originally Posted by zdaddy
Ok dumb question, what exactly is South Florida? Does it mean the same as Southern Nevada?Southern California? or just another name for Miami??
South Florida for poker purposes refers to "Miami & Ft. Laud area, including Ft. Lauderdale & Pompano Beach, Hollywood, Miami, and West Palm Beach." That's where most of the casinos are.
Last edited by Shai Hulud; 04-08-2017 at 10:18 PM.
Reason: Mistakes