I'll post a counterpoint to playing off strip or otherwise spending a lot of extra time and effort to find the "best" game. IMO, good enough is good enough. Let's start with the fact you're not going to find the lowest -expectation games on the strip, ever. If you do find the best versions of any paytable, it is likely there will be people attached to that machine trying to milk it/you won't easily get on. In addition, it is really hard to find the best (eg, full pay) versions in many of the fun variants- like multiline or any of the multitude of different types of VP out there. You'll likely be stuck playing single line for quarters at best.

I'm not saying one should intentionally look for a bad game whatsoever. I AM saying that if you're just killing time and/or want to have fun, personally I wouldn't invest too much effort into finding an optimal game. You'll likely lose in time/fun what you're trying to make up for in expectation.

Most of the online resources are pretty accurate in terms of paytables. I'd start with jacks or better just to learn the basic mechanics of the game and then you can branch out into other (IMO more fun) versions like deuces wild or triple double bonus (my favorite). Once you find a version you're going with, learn what optimal paytables are, and the most common suboptimal paytables. You can assume the strip will have at least one level worse than optimal for 1$ or above, possibly two or more levels worse below 1$ credits.

You can get really really granular when it comes to paytables, different versions and how the different tables change the optimal playing strategy and it has the potential to turn into work and rob you of fun very quickly. I'd keep all this in mind- how much mental energy do you want to invest to try and squeeze out a few fractions of a % expectation? It was worth it for me bc I've been playing for years, basically only play one game and I play a ton so those small edges really add up over time. Just something to think about.

Very good advice. With all I've been reading, it did seem a bit overwhelming. I was going to do the work for her/them, and I'll do some, but you are correct and I will stick to just having fun and trying not to lose too much money. Do you drink for free at VP? I've heard that's changed?

Thanks so much.

I think it's beneficial for most VP players (who will play more than occasionally) should know what a good paytable looks like, and what changes to make them worse. If I am in an unfamiliar casino and see a bank of VP machines, I'll probably inspect a few machines to see if the paytables vary (sometimes they do on side by side machines!), and pick the best of those. No need to figure out all of them, as like leon said, takes too much time and my play for that session will not warrant that.

But I can check the one to the left and to the right of me no problem.

been playing a little bit of vp 4x lines 2c credits and i get the enjoyment factor of it and just pray to baby covid jesus that i never feel the urge to play bigger

but mother of god you need to carefully game select and find decent pay tables

there's a 94% pay jacks or better and a 86% pay Jacks or Tens sandwiching 3-4 99.7% pay games

Leon,

In TDB, what if any deviations from strategy are your favs?

There's only two that I knowingly do-

1. I always hold 3 to a royal vs a 4 flush or high non-ace pair. This is actually correct for 9/6 TDB but not for "full pay" 9/7 TDB. All my play in Vegas is now on 9/6 machines so I find it more satisfying/easier to remember to hold the 3 to a royal. Looking at the expected return, I think I need to return to holding the 4 flush vs 3 to a royal when I play on the full pay machine in my home casino.

2. In ultimate X I will ALWAYS break aces/2/3/4s full and go for the premium quad, although I'm sure there are times when it's correct to hold the full house (and pick up the 12x multipliers for the next hand). I reason, I'm basically playing for premium quads, so if it gives me an opportunity to get one I'm going for it. Hopefully I already have some good multipliers on the board and hit the hand!

When playing Ultimate X TDB or DDB, I am a sucker for inside straight draws and trying for 8X multipliers on the next hand.. even though I know the Wizard of Odds is shaking his head in a disapproving manner at me..

Red Rock even had "advantage" vp way back when, meaning the return with perfect play was something like 100.43%. No idea if they still have it.

Another thing to be aware of is that on the same machine you can have different paytables depending on denomination. This can come into play if your friends are playing 10 cents and you are playing dollar units. So when you're looking for paytables, be sure to change to your denomination of choice. That also implies that 10 cent units aren't going to have great paytables, but still look for the best you can get.

Aria, Cosmo, and Bellagio all offers quarter level 9/6 TDB VP - the same pay table Leon gets for his dollar play. But you may have to spend a few minutes looking for them. The info below is current as of Feb 2023.

At Bellagio you can find 2 consoles with Triple Spin poker, which includes quarter 9/6 TDB. You can play from 1 to 27 lines in a 3 x 3 configuration. The consoles have recently (as of Feb 2023) been moved to a location close to the poker room and Snacks, where they are part of a small circular island of consoles all facing away from each other in a 360 configuration.

Cosmo has a total of 3 quarter level 9/6 TDB consoles. Two sit between the limit slot room entry and the CliQue lounge. #1 sits right outside CliQue, #2 is one bank away, and the game is buried deep in a 50/100 play multigame configuration. To get to 9/6 TDB choose quarters, 50 play and TDB. Its your call how many lines you want to play. #3 is similar to #2, but sits on the walkway stretching from the lobby to CliQue, on the aisle.

Finally, there are at least 4 consoles with quarter 9/6 TDB VP at Aria. Two sits on either side of a bank in front of the Rewards desk, the other two in the area adjacent the high limit slot room close to the pizza parlor.

June 1-4 TR

Just got back yesterday.

Backstory- was planning on going at least once in June. I received a ton of offers for the month from the Wynn, including a black card giveaway (free money), a free tournament entry (75k top prize?), 2.5k free credit in a mailer (my usual is 1.5), a poker tournament entry (actually really sad I couldn't make this one, the structure looked good, the payouts were big and I would get multiple bullets to fire; I have to figure even though I haven't played a competitive hand of poker in years I'm still a massive favorite over your typical Wynn hi roller who literally will hold a pair over 2 pair bc "2 pair can't make quads"). I think there's a Land Rover (150k in cash, a bunch of other free prizes) giveaway later this month as well.

When I looked at everything, this past weekend definitely made the most sense. Mom can make the free slot tournament as well, and I could redeem potentially three of the offers. So, I made the reservations only to find out I cannot combine multiple offers. Hard stop. I asked in a number of ways, no dice. So, I elected to do the giveaway (most +EV from what I could see) and forgo the other offers. Mom is still playing in the tournament.

As I'm arranging the trip, I know I need someone else to come along if possible. Just me and Mom is not going to provide enough non-gambling distraction for me in case I get crushed. All my usual friends are out, so I ask the Manny who has come many times with us before, but usually is helping with my kids- I know he hasn't been since Dec 2021. He's actually really excited to come, and he and Mom hang out much more than I do, honestly. So we've picked up a third!

I briefly get a family of three who I've been with before to come along- they commit and get really excited, but then have to bail for financial reasons. I had already purchased tickets for Mad Apple for them- no refunds so they ate that cost which is a shame. They actually make a really good living, much better than me, but are in the midst of a near- 1 MILLION dollar home renovation and are cash poor. I offered them a no-interest 10k loan so they could come, pay me back any time, but they didn't feel like they could accept. So we were 2, then 3, then briefly 6, and now back to 3.

Agenda-
Thurs- arrive, don't get crushed, dinner at Sinatra
Fri- Mad Apple Cirque show at NYNY (second time for me), dinner at L'atelier Joel Robuchon at MGM.
Sat- Mom plays in the tourney, dinner at Min's Test Kitchen (new for all of us, he's the executive chef at Mizumi and is doing a pop up concept while Mizumi is being renovated)
Sun- leave

Bankroll- 50k

Other items- I've been doing keto hardcore since I got back from Vegas in Apr. It's not TOO different from how I've eaten since 2009 (Paleo/low carb), but the reality is I've slowly but surely lost discipline since 2017 and have the dad bod to show for it. So it's been past time to dial that sht back in. It's been going well, I've lost 10lbs and and visibly more fit. This will be the first test since that time- if I can mostly behave myself this weekend I'll consider it a win. I will clearly eat some carbs at Joel Robuchon (it would be a sin not to), and since it's our first time at Min's I'll have to try the items as they're meant to be.

Day 1

We head to the airport late morning. People may remember from my last TR me getting F'd by Southwest last minute and having to drive- let's hope we don't see a repeat of that.



Slight delay but otherwise no issues.



Never gets old.

To no one's surprise, the main suite is not ready, AGAIN. I feel like this happens the majority of trips. Mom's room is not ready either (I've got the main, nanny has the connecting, and mom has a stand-alone room) so we drop our bags off in N's room. Mom and N want to grab lunch, I grab a snack from the VIP lounge, a bourbon from the bar and then head to... what else, but UX.



It takes a while to open the account, and I know I was down 5k pretty quickly at UX. PLEASE DON'T RUN COLD! I head over to hi limit.



Get dealt quads #1 pretty soon after!



I'll take it, but not enough obv.



OK this is awesome!

I'm pretty sure I played that ticket down to 10k, cashed it out and fed bills in again, bc the next pic is-



I know I give a ton back, and switch to an old school machine to slow it down.




I played a ton, and despite the 2 royal hits I know I finished the whole session down. By my estimates at least 6-7k (most of that initially to UX). I head to the room to take a break.



I get changed for dinner and hit the machines again. I lose rapidly and decide to use up my free credit- 1500 + some nominal amount from a promotion they're running.



Start.



And... in the midst of using up the free credit, dealt quads #2!



MEH.



End. Amazing payback %, somewhere close to 400%.

After that, the machine turns ice cold. I quickly donk back several K and finish pretty much right where I started that session, so annoying. I'm down 8k heading into dinner.

Sinatra

OK, assuming I get my usual (veal parm) and really take it easy on the "truffle" fettucini I shouldn't mess up my ketosis too badly...



Everything is the usual 7-8/10.

After dinner, I'm pretty tired. I know I should go up- I've been up since 4:30am and I'm stuck. The only way to avoid a 1st day implosion is to not play... OK, I'll just put 2k in UX. If I lose it it'll be ultra fast, and I can live with a 10k first day loss.

I hit dealt quads #3 within a few minutes of the session! 10 play, UX!



COME ON where are the premiums!

At least I have bullets now.



More bullets.



WOW. MORE BULLETS! I'm now up for the day!

Keep going. Give a little back. I'm near my stopping point, but the machine is just generally warm. Lots of small 500-1000$ hits, nothing outstanding but certainly better than average. Then, dealt quads NUMBER 4!



FINALLY!!!!!! BANGBANGBANG FCKYESFCKFCK!!#@##@@#

In true autohold fashion, it took me a second to realize what happened. Once I did, obv of course I was ecstatic. And almost as quickly, I started lamenting general lack of multipliers...

Finally. All the years I've been playing at the Wynn, never got dealt 4AWAK before. I can check that off my list. I bask in the glory for a bit, it takes them a while to unlock the machine, and then I'm back at it.

The machine stays warm- more 500-1000$ hits. Unfortunately no jackpots from this point, and eventually I end up giving back at least 7k. I am so sleep deprived that I'm starting to feel ill, and now that the adrenaline is fading/I'm losing I feel really sick. I head up to bed around 11:30pm, and it's all I can do to brush my teeth and hit the sack without vomiting. Really weird that it came on that fast but at least I made it back to the room. Wish I didn't have to give back 7k in the process of getting upstairs, but life of a degen...

Day 1 result- +60k
Dealt quads- 4, including the BIG ONE!

Day 2 coming soon...

I had a feeling when I saw that you had just gotten home yesterday ...

AWESOME!

Ya boy! Nice hit there.

Let's go Leon!

Incredible

Well, OK then!

OMFG

hoping for the Manny's sake he has a small piece of your action?

Hell yeah leon!

boom!

yes!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets go LAON!

Part of Day 2

After falling asleep ill around midnight, I wake up at... 3:30am! That is unacceptable. I actually felt pretty awake and decent considering less than 4 hrs ago I felt like crap, but still. So I force myself to go back to bed and basically toss and turn for an hr before I say F it for good around 4:30am. Today is going to be rough, but some forced naps for bankroll preservation purposes can't be a bad thing...

Grab a much needed coffee and debate where to start. I decide on hi limit- I'm well up, a reason I'll coast with some "low variance" regular VP as opposed to UX or spin.



Only hit in hi limit. I think I gave back almost 10k here.

Move to regular old school machine to slow it down. Obv now that I'm playing 10 as opposed to 20+ lines, here comes dealt quads number 5!



PREMIUM!!!!

OK, need a good draw here. I'm reminded of my last trip and how similar this is- getting screwed AM day 2, and this machine hits me with quad 4s. Last time I hit 6 kickers and it totally erased the AM shtshow. Let's go!

Result-


ARGH. Not what I needed. Oh well, at least I'm not so stuck for the AM anymore.

I go to 2$ credits.



LOL hold an ace and get "dealt premium quads".



BOOM!

I give a little back, then get a little bored and decide to hit UX. I'm up for the AM- let's do this!



We know what happens when a) you make hands in UX but b) premiums are not on a multiplier- you lose. I think I gave back about 4k here.



Back at hi limit. Break even at best.



Giving spin poker a try. I know I lost here too.

I think I moved over to UX again at this point. I played a ton and breakfast STILL isn't for another hr. I think at my hi point this AM I was up about 12k, but now am sickeningly back to down to about even despite being dealt premiums, and hitting 4AWAK at 2 dollar credits. I go back to old school, 1$ credits.



NICE.

And then, the machine turns. I'm near even, again. It's almost time for breakfast. This spin poker deluxe cabinet next to me has been staring at me for years. A little backstory here- back when the Wynn had 9/7 TDB, all the spin poker machines were also 9/7. I belated got into spin, and often didn't even play 9 lines. Had some good results, and was getting more and more into spin when they changed everything to 9/6 TDB. Ugh. On top of that, they changed out the cabinets- the old ones had a unique jackpot music that I liked and never had the pleasure of hearing enough before the change. After the change they incorporated spin into the all star II machines, with the "regular" jackpot noise. They also basically got rid of spin poker deluxe (offers up to 20 lines). So essentially, right around when I would have been able to play more than 9 lines of spin poker, they deoptimized, and changed the format/made it impossible to play more than 9 lines. EXCEPT-

Two old school cabinets of spin poker deluxe were left on the floor. Only problem? Min denom is 2$! I simply cannot play 2$ credits, 20 lines, spin. That's way too swingy. So I ignored those machines, and every once in a while got a tinge of envy when I heard that unique jackpot music.

So- I'm sitting here about even for the AM. Way down, then way up, now even again. Meh F fire a 1k bullet at this spin poker machine. 9 lines, 2$ credits.



First real draw on this machine, happened in just a few hands. Dream result obv. I'm up 12k for the day again!

Tableau

I tell N and Mom the good news. With a result like I just had at spin, I swear it can make a superstitious person out of anyone. Within a few hands, I was back to my high point, from a machine that was calling my name. How has this not already been fated/scripted from forces on high? It's so weird.



I grab the Spanish Omelette. That spicy red pepper on top was not nearly as hot as before, just a manageable 5/10 spiciness.

After breakfast, I plan on hitting the pool, taking a nap, and coasting. Mom and N are going to play slots, and I decide to pivot a bit and watch/chill with them. So I do, but then I notice two multi-line machines on the floor by hi limit! Huh, haven't seen these before.

The first has no sound. That won't work. Second is good, meh let's fire a mini bullet. I decide to go big and play 30 lines. Then- dealt quads NUMBER SIX!!!



I am running insanely hot with these quads- but imagine if more were premium, esp now. 30 LINES!!!!

Annoyingly, fast pay is not set up on this machine. Oh well. I increase to 40 lines and reason I'm ok with waiting to unlock a jackpot if it's going to be a dealt monster. I'm just crushing, so let's keep this going and see 4AWAK dealt again!



Just a hot little mini session. Obv you can give money back super fast with this many lines, and once it turns I bolt for the pool. I am up 17k for the day, 77k overall!

As I didn't reserve a cabana, I just grab a regular lounge chair. Stayed here a bit then moved to a spot with some shade.



The falconierre and her weapon, trained to scare away those annoying little birds that would hassle guests for food/sht everywhere.

Once I started falling asleep poolside, I headed upstairs, grabbed a quick nap and met N and Mom for food at Red 8. I am SO PROUD of how I'm managing my money in general this trip.



We started eating before I remembered to take a pic unfortunately. For anyone interested, I recommend getting the sea bass at Red 8. They've definitely improved it, you get a huge piece of fish and the sauce is much tastier than before (needed a lot of salt before).

This is a reasonable stopping point for now- more soon.

Day 2 so far- +17k
Overall- +77k
Dealt quads- 6, 2 premiums

newb question: what happens when you hit a big one and it says call attendant? Machine freezes until an employee comes over? To do what? Swipe their card and allow the machine to print a $5000 ticket when you've been playing $100 a hand?

It doesn't have to be big. 1200$ or more, it's a law. Machine locks up and must be unlocked by attendant. Bet size has no bearing.

You can't get paid until the machine unlocks. You can get paid any way you want- cash, check etc. The good part is most places (including the Wynn now) have self-pay- you set up your account, then when you hit a jackpot, you enter your own pin and 2 sec later you're ready to go and the money is on the machine. Each place has their own limits on what a player can and can't unlock, and it sometimes differs by machine too. For instance, at my local I can only unlock <9999$ jackpots myself. At the Wynn on the floor I've unlocked as big as 30k myself. I'm told on some of the hi limit machines people can unlock up to 99,999$ themselves. Anything over 100k requires engineer verification. It's all over the place.

Edit to add: it's a tax thing. The win gets recorded and sent to the IRS. You have to sign the tax form. The employee unlocking the machine is verification the tax documentation is in place. So automating the process makes sense, it's literally just a number recorded on a form somewhere. There's no reason that can't be done automatically, it just requires a player account to be set up.