Also i just want to say i am not at all being critical of you Leon. Obviously this is one of the best threads on 2+2. I have always been fascinated with ways to exploit comp systems. So if you can have a $2500-$5000 theo and get the level of comps you are that is awesome. Like you said we should all get as much as we can.

I am just speculating as to why Wynn did what they did. There is always a reason. Wynn really isn't expected to make any money off you based on your level of play and the comps you are getting and it wouldnt shock me if this was their way to do so for you and players like you. $1-2k free play, $1000-$1500 fb, rooms ranging from standard room to suites+a room is in the $3000-5000 range in comps a trip(i realized the food is overpriced and the rooms are probably empty anyways so Wynn's actual cost is less than this). If your theo is 3-5k a trip they aren't making much money there. Which is awesome for you because essentially you get unlimited free trips to vegas. I'd be lying if i said i wasn't jealous.

Since reading this thread I have tried to dabble in some VP on each trip, but the reality is I really don’t know what I’m doing. Last March during my MM trip I played some VP while waiting for a buddy to come down. I hit a couple of decent hands and won about $100 for the short time I played, but I made one mistake that made me feel soooo stupid. I was dealt a flush, not a huge payout, but it was worthy since had bumped up to $1. In my confusion on figuring out what button was the hold, I hit the draw button instead. I seriously thought, Leon would not be proud. I still cringe when I think about it. It’s the same feeling I get when I tried a big bluff in a 5/10 NL game that was above my head. I’ll never forget either of them.

Haha, my mom is the same way. Sometimes we play FPDW together and she makes mistakes and never learns even after I correct her for the thousandth time. She, like your dad, is probably like a 96-97ish% player on a 100.76% game.


The sad thing is when I watch randoms play, most of them make WAY more and WAY worse errors than my mom. Those casinos could offer a 102% game and probably still make money off it just off the people who have no clue and don't care about proper strategy.

Heh - don't feel bad. Few years ago I was donking around waiting for my wife to come down and go to dinner on a 25c poker machine playing deuces wild and was dealt four deuces pat. Kept the single card and tossed the deuces. In my defense, I was tired/a little drunk.

Still sucked.....

MM MD

It's this phenomenon that irritates me about the paytable change. Bad players will always play bad. I don't know the numbers, and clearly as a business casinos are motivated to maximize profit, but I wonder just how much they actually will improve their bottom line with a move like this. Eg, the bad players will still play bad, and MAYBE even play relatively better depending on the machine (for example, full pay TDB you'd hold 3 flush with a high card, non-full it's two off suit high cards, a play a newb is more likely to make anyways. Change TDB to non-full pay and maybe they're now making "correct" holds!). In my opinion, offering something for everyone is the sweet spot- most machines are terrible anyways, leave some good options for people like myself to lose money at. Sure, maybe we'll lose more slowly but I for one will keep coming back and I know I'm a favorite to lose anyways. They'll get the money in the end, it'll just take a little longer.

Don't worry I didn't take it as a criticism. I remember reading that max comp typically is calculated as 50% of theo (old, may be different). If that's the case, and I have a theo loss of 5k per trip, the numbers aren't far off-
- usually regular room- retails 300-400 a night but it's a fixed cost for the casino so I'd guess it figures less into comp calculations
- 1k food credit- again, probably less than actual retail value
- 1k free credit- although I could get back up to 99% of this, usually it's more like 50-90%, and they know I'll stick it back in the machine. Hard to figure on this one, let's call it 800$ in value.

So that's 1k room/1k food/800 FC = pretty close to 50% of my theo loss. Plus they keep me happy and keep me playing. We know most people don't maximize nearly anything of what they could get in comp, so they'll do just fine.

On a more advanced level, if they track me at all they should know I'm a tilt monkey too. I can go off on some big numbers that I'm unlikely to recover from. All they need to do is keep me gambling and wait for me to explode.

So yeah, I guess their comps are pretty dialed in once I type all that out.


I'm on tilt now after reading this.

Day 3 part 2

I'm back at the tournament awards presentation. The MC announces that he will call out the top 30 finishers in reverse order. I figure I'll get at least 15th-30th which is 3k cash.

"In 30th place, with a score of 60k, XXXX"

"In 29th place, with a score of 60k ish, YYYY"

WOW. Literally a few pts difference between 30th and 29th. I've got 65k and change, not sure of the exact amount. I could go back and add up things up exactly, but this makes the sweat more fun. If this spread remains this close between places, I'm taking better than 15th for sure!

"In 28th place, with a score of 60k ish, ZZZZ"

NICE! GOGOGO

We get out of 15th-30th and haven't even gone past 60k pts. I'm now really hopeful I might, just might, get a 5 figure score out of this.

Next bracket- 10th-15th, worth 5k.



Next bracket- 8th and 9th, worth 7.5k.



Next bracket- 6th and 7th, worth 10k. I'm texting my wife- "I'm winning 10k, minimum".

In 7th place, with a score of...



In 6th place, with a score of...



BANG!!!!! Next is 5th place, worth 15k. This is probably me. Like I've said, I've got 65k pts, last person was 64k, but you never know...

Result-


So so so happy. I dodged the 5th place, and squeaked into 4th. 25 grand, net 22k if you factor in the buy in. I gotta say, the sweat was REALLY fun. Just wish I ran a few more places...

I get my picture taken, sign the forms then it's off to the cashier to get my prize. There's a huge line, mostly tournament participants also picking up their prize. I end up standing in line next to the 2nd and 3rd place finishers and find out the spread between our scores is a few hundred pts for 3rd, 1k for 2nd! OMG if I just converted one of those meaningless symbols at some point I would have taken 3rd (50k), make one more decent symbol and I take second! (75k). It was literally that close. And of course, had I gotten one more 3x4x5x in the bonus round, I win that AND take second, for a 98k+ difference!

Jesus. One can drive themselves crazy with these thoughts. Obv I'm happy with 4th. It'll have to do. Finally got something from one of these things.



"How would you like your winnings sir?" Cash, obv. Gotta have something to stick into a machine!

I've got about an hour before dinner at Sinatra. This trip, despite the 9/6, is now officially the bomb.

I head to hi limit- a full pay machine is open. I've got the funds- let's play UX.





MAN those aces are coming in now, but the one time I hit with a multiplier, there's no kicker, of course.

Result from that session-





Kentucky mule.



Amuse bouche- can't remember what soup this was, but it was good. 7/10.



Caesar salad, 7/10.



Truffles being shaved onto the pasta, 110+ dollars for an appetizer portion!



10/10 tonight.



Veal parm- 10/10.

As can be seen, I went with my old standbys of truffle pasta and veal parm, and honestly there was no difference I could describe, and yet... everything was perfect. I ate every single bite of everything. Perhaps it's bc I was hungry, perhaps bc I was flush from the tourney score. Whatever the reason, this was literally the perfect meal.



Too full for dessert, but they brought these small bites out anyways. Not pictured- a truffle w/ fruit which I had already eaten, 8/10.

On the way back to Wynn, I see a half-full craps table, exactly as I like it. Let's do it. I'm in for 2k, and place my usual 6/8 for 150 each. Unfortunately, I managed to find a straight-icy table; generally, I don't like to shoot with only 345 odds available and would rather just make place bets. The people at the other end were the type which tilt me so badly- rank newbs, lots of hooting and hollering with no result to justify it, take forever to make bets/grab dice with both hands/constantly throw dice off table/etc. Of course the sequence is point-out-point-out-point-out. I'm stuck almost 1k in 3 rolls and the dice come to me. I decide to shoot, bc how much worse could it be?

Result-


After that, it's back to pure ice. I play through a couple more rolls then throw in the towel.



In for 2k, out for 700ish.

That sucked. Time for more VP!

I wish I had more pics to post, but VP was overall terrible as well. No hits, no draws. With my craps loss, I'm now stuck 5k post dinner, even for the day again. I decide to hit UX, rationalizing I'm only down 5k for the trip and hey, I'm actually up 22k from the tourney!

It's one of those really dangerous UX sessions. I keep getting enough premium draws to really give me hope that the huge score is just around the corner (eg, three aces with 8x multiplier everywhere). I keep missing said draws. Get a dealt flush followed by dealt straight for some more bullets. Regular quads with a 4x multiplier for 1k. And of course, the money keeps sliding inevitably downhill...

I think at some point I passed the point of misery and was just reflexively pushing buttons. Stuck 1k? I'm ok with being stuck 2k. Stuck 2k? I'm ok being stuck 3k. I know I was stuck 4k for the day when I FINALLY make a hand-



WHAT A SAVE!

I'm now UP 4k for the day again! I play on like a donk for another 2k before I take the save I've been granted. Up 2k for the day. 4th in the tourney. Going home tomorrow, and definitely going home a winner. This is awesome...

Day 3 result- +2k
Overall- -3k (not counting tourney result)

Final day coming soon...

!!!!!!!!

Score!!!!

Nice Leon!! Finally a payday in that tourney!
Hope you take some more from the Wynn folks. Basterds for the crappy payouts.

Epic. Happy for you!

Sweet score in the tourney!

Re: theoretical, it's not nearly as much as the EV from perfect play. I once got a glimpse at the hosts computer screen when they brought up my account, and the Theo was 95%, and my main game is 99.3%.

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This fact alone can explain all my comps, not that I'd ever ask them to look into the matter at this point

You didn't say "Gimme two and a half stacks of High Society"?

Wow congrats on the tourney score. About time!

I love it! Nice hit Leon.

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Very nice!

may not have been posting so much, but still eagerly checking this thread every morning for updates.

thank you for continuing to share this.

pulling for dealt 4awak on spin....

also, did you come out of pocket for the slot tourney or was the entry comped?

The tourney was out of pocket, a comp would be nice but I haven't heard of that.

I should have the last update up sometime tomorrow, hopefully.

By the way, you are welcome for this (even happier I got it wrong as free play!)

awesome post leon. really happy for you!

Congrats Leon! Awesome TR.

so close to a new page

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