With all due respect, I don't see you diverting much from you current path. You have discussed before how its hard to go back to poker/craps once you tasted the sweet nectar of VP. Therefore, I can't imagine you will last long trying other games; for low stakes (compared to VP), which includes leaving the comfort of the Wynn.

There, I doubted you, prove me wrong

Hey Leon,

One thing wifey and I do is go head to head on VP. Each takes a machine and put in $10, $100 or whatever and see who goes busto first or doubles up. We both have lots of fun doing this. Not sure if your wife will be with you on the trip, sounds like it's solo.

I have seen all kinds of good suggestions in the past in other TRs, though a lot of them involve groups of people.

If you do decide to venture from the Wynn, I feel like you'll want to make it worth your while at each place, maybe like 5x$50-100 hands of blackjack at each place or 3 craps shooters or put it on black at roulette once, so many options.

I will also be very curious if you manage to make it out of the lovely and luxurious confines of the Wynn to venture down the strip. Hope you do.


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Mash the button one time on the $1000 slot in the Wynn high limit room!

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It wouldn't be as hard to divert as you might think, a couple of my recent TRs have featured dice for example and when we met up with friends 8/18 we played a fair amount of blackjack bc that's their game. This specifically would be to change it up a bit and (potentially) save a bit of money- all things being equal, I'm likely to lose less if I walk to different casinos and/or place 25$ bets on blackjack etc vs straight unbroken hours of VP.

The tougher part is going to be overcoming the other negatives- eg, getting a player's card at other casinos (probably a waste of time but the value part of me doesn't want to leave stuff on the table), what happens if I hit a jackpot at another casino (good problem to have, but now I have another w2 to save, have to get year-end win/loss, etc), learning how to play the other games (again, don't want to leave too much value on the table), etc.

Actually now that I type all this out I'll probably do a hybrid of some sort- maybe just hit the closest casinos. Probably stick to table games so I don't have to deal with w2s, etc. I'll still take ideas, though.

I'm actually sort of tempted. Part of me knows just how fast a G can go at 1$ credits, why not do it in one she-bang? OTOH, I've done a lot of damage with 1k bullets at VP before... probably gonna pass on this one. Too likely it'll just be an instantaneous flush then I'll be pissed at myself.

Given your recent fondness of Spin Poker and UX, I think a fun idea might be to just play $X at a bunch of new VP variants you haven't played yet (unless you've actually played them _all_, which is pretty unlikely). Maybe you'll find a new favorite! You don't even need to go playing at different casinos either.

There's an idea. That said, I just cycled 20k credits at Magic Deal poker on videopoker.com and only got 1 magic card, 3 times. Bleh.

I’ve been loving that spin dreamcard tdb on VP.com.


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I have done both...somewhat lol.

Every now and then, I will walk the strip and do 2 spins on every $25 and $100 denom Wheel Of Fortune machine. This actually works out fairly well...so far.

I have also tried to play 10 deals on every single S3P machine at $1 denom 10-play, that is at Red Rock...there is a **** ton! Short of the few that were occupied and me not remembering where they were when I wanted to go back to check on them, I did practically do it...it did not end well lol.



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So I've been playing this for the last hour or so. Cycled god knows how many credits (I literally don't hold anything or draw at anything less than premium trips), haven't hit one premium quad, but of course get dealt non-premium quads on BACK TO BACK hands, both times without the dream card.

I really am the king of dealt non-premium quads.

I see only one logical solution: High Stakes Casino War Trip Report.

I second this!


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Leon - Perhaps take a trip to Fremont old Vegas and play all the super retro old school VP games they have there.

Kind of fun to play the coin droppers or the old school treasure chests and shockwave variants etc

Golden Nugget has some pretty big $ VP games too.

i would love to see a some craps action!

Feb 28th-Mar 3rd TR

Got a crazy one for you folks...

Backstory- when we got back from my late Jan trip, I was pretty pleased with myself. 30k given to my wife for the backyard project, completely funded by gambling. Multiple great escapes over the last few trips, a healthy bankroll, and a commitment to go to Vegas less over 2019 than 2018.

Yeah. That last sentence. So basically the day I get back, I have an invite from the Wynn for a 2500$ (plus 500$ rebuy round) slot tournament over the above dates. The buy in is a great size for me, they've got a giveaway drawing in addition... hmm. So of course I start looking at my work schedule, and realize I could easily go if I move around one of my work days.

I sit on the decision for a few days. I keep thinking I'm due to hit one of these things. Logically, I know I'm not. I realize that 3k really isn't big for me and is basically a session swing. I'm more worried about visiting so soon and posting a 5 digit loss and really being pissed at myself.

I go to the local casino, and tell myself if I win a buy in I'll think about this some more. Long story short, I had a monster day (+8k), and snap decide I'm going!

Plan-
- gamble in controlled fashion (I'm solo this trip so I'd better behave)
- bink slot tournament
- bink giveaway drawing

Day 1

Plane actually leaves on time for once...



Sitting in the middle seat, actually a really nice view coming into Vegas but I didn't want to lean over the guy sitting in the window seat.



Never gets old!

Have a little bit of a sweat at baggage claim, I checked in after the cutoff for Southwest and they warned me my bag "might not make it". Ugh. I waited for a while, but eventually see my bag. Phew, that would have been a terrible start.



Let's go!

I get in right around dinner time; I'm pretty hungry but I can play for a bit first then hit Red8. I get checked in and pick up my tournament credentials my host left for me, then head upstairs.









Just a standard room this time, no need for more.



Tournament stuff, plus free gift (speakers) from the Wynn. Sweet, I'll take it.

I head downstairs. Don't think I've been this excited to play for a while. And... people are sitting at my usual machines. OK, I'll head to spin poker. WTF?



WTF. I was just here a month ago. All the spin poker deluxe machines are gone- I had visions of playing 12, 15 or even 20 lines of spin with some run good. Not happening now, I guess. That's ok, I'll head back to my usual area, where they have a regular spin poker machine.

Card in. Sit down, feed money. Look for TDB. DON'T SEE IT. WTF? It says, "double double bonus" which is new for this machine. Recheck, make sure I'm seeing it right. Yep, they've REPLACED TDB with DDB!

This is ****ed up. I head to hi limit to see what's up there. I've been here a whole half hour and haven't even gotten to play yet!

Finally. A free machine. Tee up spin. I decide for this trip I'm going to use up my free credit first. Might as well see if I can start out winner and minimize the amount of bills I put in. Either way the credit's getting used up...



Feed in a hundo and go to work. It's cold. Result-



100$ + 1k free credit = ~50% return. Terrible.

That's enough of that crap. I decide to see if my usual is free now, I can always count of those machines. And they are, nice.

Sit down. There's TDB. And... there's DDB? WTF WTF WTF. I have a sinking feeling. All of these changes. DDB added left and right. Tee up TDB and see...



My heart sinks. Really sinks. I futilely check the other machine, and it's 9/6 too. Let's consider this, shall we?

9/6 TDB = 98% payback, give or take. 9/7 (full pay) = 99.5%. That's a 1.5% difference, WITH perfect play, and I'll admit I never learned perfect play at 9/6 bc why bother? I know holding a three flush vs 2 high cards is going to be wrong, but that's about the only difference. I tend to coin in 500k per trip. An increased hold of 1.5% = an extra 7500 the Wynn figures to hold from me. WTFWTFWTFWTF

I honestly don't know what to do. I'm here for the tournament, and I want to play, and yet... this is a real kick in the nuts. I decide I'll make the best of it this trip and just hope for the best. But this is long term just not sustainable and I know it.

I play off 1k. Then 2k. Standard suckage, made worse by the fact that I feel like a fish with every push I make. I don't note many times where the paytable even makes a difference, but intellectually I know I'm getting screwed. I'm not having any fun, what's worse. Literally every push I feel like a self-aware fish. I'm a sucker. A donk. 9/6 PHUKKING TDB!!!!!!!!!!

I decide to take a dinner break and hit Red8. Better cool off and really think this through.



Green beans sauteed with garlic. 6/10.



Soft-shelled crabs, 6/10.

After dinner, I decide to scan around the casino to see if maybe, just maybe, new machines have been added. No dice. I head to hi limit to decide to play on the only two remaining full pay machines in the house. I can play spin, UX (and bet 5 credits only for full pay 5 line, I want 10 line but that's not an option), or full double super times pay. That's it. And... the machines are full. Of course. Every regular in house (and there're a lot due to the slot tourney) is going to be tying up these machines. Sigh.

Defeated, I decide to just eat the 9/6. I'm going to be here all weekend and those hi limit machines will never be free. I'll just be a donk this weekend. I'm already crafting the letter I will have my host send to management, and I've spoken to several regulars already. Those that knew are also really pissed and I encourage them to complain. Those that didn't, I make sure to tell them so they understand. And with that done... it's time to give away money.

I lose an additional 2k before I pick up my first draw of the trip, and bink-



TWICE! Gonna need some serious run good to overcome this disadvantage.

Give back 1k and decide to switch to spin. Since I'm playing 9/6 now, I actually have a spin poker deluxe option. Go to 12 lines and hit nothing. I'm now even again. Give back another 1-2k and finally hit something-



Once with kicker, once without!



Of course, swingy spin is swingy. I keep playing, and I'm losing again. Pick up a premium trip draw and-





BANG. I really needed that.

I'm up again. Keep going. I'm so pissed at this place- STILL can't shake that "I'm a fish" feeling and it's making me angry. I'm gonna take them for everything they're worth this trip.

Or not. Give back more, and more, and more. Stuck again. Jesus.

I decide to head back to hi limit. Gotta get as much value as I can. And... the two machines are STILL tied up. Of course. I figure since I'm playing 9/6 now, the 25 line machine that my dad hit 200k on in May 2016, and that I previously avoided bc of the bad paytable, well... that's on the docket now.



That's a good start!

Keep going. Give it all back. I'm even again, and I'm tired. I should go to bed. But I'm STILL PISSED. Screw it- only one way to bring this place down.



I ended up down 5k for the night. Certainly not the worst first day loss, but the way it happened... the fact I've got several more days of this god-awful 9/6 crap to look forward to... I need to come up with a plan for the weekend.

I head upstairs tired and very upset. Plan- play less, watch more movies. Give less money to the Wynn. Long term, come less. F U Wynn. Just F U.

Day 1 result- -5k

Day 2 coming soon...

OMG, 9/6 TDB!

I foresee us seeing a lot more of each other at the Cosmo in the near future. I'll hook you up with my host, maybe I can get a referral bonus

Also, I met another degenerate anesthetist VP player at the Cosmo this trip, and a surgeon who played BJ and drank Pappy 23 for $195 an ounce. Both super nice people and lots of fun to hang out with. I'm up to 4 degen doctors in the group now.

I'll pm you, and I will also post a TR this week, though it's mostly food and not too much gambling.

Food at Cosmo is great too, but I don't know if you'll get RFB when you win 20-30k a trip.

9/6!!!!!

This is trivial, but I am giggling at the contrast between Leon's high-rolling Vegas trip and him being stuck in a middle seat on the plane.

And checking a bag for a solo non-stop flight to Vegas....

We'll see. I'm hopeful the Wynn will reverse this stupidity. More details to come later in the TR. If they can show a good customer response, they'll keep me.

Ha, I'm just a regular person who happens to be a degen. Middle seat for < 1hr flight, if near front of plane = just fine.

You don't even want to know why I check a bag. Oh, ok fine. I jack all of the free water bottles, etc. My bag is typically half full when I leave home and stuffed when I come home. Can't leave value on the table

I don’t know squat about VP odds, but this is just typical of what Vegas has been doing for years. For your sake, and my own for future TR’s, I sure hope the Wynn reverses course.

Looking forward to the next write up.

After the casinos started introducing 6:5 blackjack all over the strip a few years ago and then the ridiculous triple-zero roulette, I was surprised that they were still offering full-pay VP, even at high limits.

Well I guess now even that's starting to go. Figured it was just a matter of time.

Leon, please send your blessings of good fortune my way. I'm running terribad here. As always, GL!!

Here is hoping for an epic finish to tough start!

Maybe Wynn changed their pay tables and machines because they were monitoring this thread and all of Leon's crushing?

If that's true they are truly fools. Any suit with half a brain would know I'm a favorite to keep playing and keep losing. This change makes me LESS likely to play, and of course I'm going to complain about it and spread the news as far and wide as I can.

Sneak preview, but twoplustwo and this thread were part of my complaint letter. I referenced the fact that this change has implications beyond just each disgruntled individual. I don't know if it'll do anything, but I want them to know they're doing more damage to themselves than they realize. So if anyone from the Wynn is reading- I told you I'm going to let as many people know as possible. We don't mind losing our money but we want a fair shake for our money and not to overtly be taken advantage of as if we're idiots.

In related news, I remember when the double odds craps came out at the Wynn, but the last few times I've looked they changed it back to 3-4-5. So maybe there's hope they'll reverse this stupid decision. We'll see. Lots of young MBAs out there with zero understanding of what makes gamblers tick.