As long as municipalities are foolish enough to give them the money, they'll take it. It could be a money-making opportunity without public funds or a huge money-making opportunity with public funds. There are teams that did it without public funds, and 100% of the time it was because the public wouldn't allow it- not because the team took the option off the table.

So in your argument, adding development around a stadium automagically makes it all a good investment for the city? How so?

Not automatically, but yeah if the right type of development grows around the facility then it increases the city's tax revenue.

It is "panem et circenses." The increasing-tax-revenue-by-building-NFL-stadiums argument was long ago debunked as bull**** in city after city.

What do you mean debunked? The municipalities just runs the numbers and ascertain whether or not the project makes sense for them. It's not rocket science by any stretch of the imagination but it certainly doesn't surprise me that government employees often screw that up.

The city of Arlington is anticipating that they will pay off the bond for AT&T stadium 10 years early because they have received greater tax revenue than anticipated (sales tax, hotel occupancy tax, and car rental tax). This is despite some huge projects near the Stadium being cancelled due to the poor state of retail at the time.

And it's not like Arlington was a city on the rise prior to the Stadium being built. In large part it was a huge ****hole, an aging suburb on the decline.

And sometimes have ulterior motives.

Municipalities never run the numbers, the teams just pay off, er donate to the local politicians, and run out a fake economic report sold them by a whoring economist saying it's the best investment ever, but refuse to release the "data" behind the report. Then they run the vote through the city council or county commissioners so local voters don't have a say.

The truth is these concrete mausoleums are terrible investments. They are empty most of the year, the vast majority of its employees are part time minimum wagers, and the profits are spirited out of town by the millionaire players and billionaire owners. They make nothing, just provide entertainment and mostly zero sum at that diverting local money from one pocket to another.

Studies have shown a single Nordstroms provides more economic stimulus than an NFL stadium. A Nordstrom delivers actual physical goods that people need, its open every day for up to 12 hours a day, and it employees hundreds of people in middle class jobs year round.

Sure they do. I know Arlington did. I know Frisco does on every development project they are involved with. Why wouldn't they? Maybe that is why Frisco is one of the most well managed growing cities/suburbs in the country. Still, it makes no logical sense to not run the numbers.

True that the voters didn't have a say in Dallas. Voters would have taken the stadium which would have been huge for Downtown Dallas if they had put it where Stephen Jones wanted it. However, Arlington citizens vote on these stadiums. They are voting this fall on one in fact.

They don't necessarily have to be, as I already illustrated. Hell AT&T stadium is constantly running tours as well.

Maybe more cities should start subsidizing Nordstroms as well.

Strip club update...

Spearmint Rhino is a mess... even though its still open for business, the entire place is under construction and is the middle of a big time upgrade.

There is also a new club, Girl Collection, opening soon in the old Cabaret building under sahara on highland... they did a great job inside and it should be open within a couple weeks.

Apparently my review of Sp. Rhino worked. What a crap hole that place was. Hope they make it nice.

The entire SR block is under construction... its a massive undertaking. The girl collection facility is much smaller and intimate, but they did a good job kn the interior. Its got an old school corner stage.

I bought two tickets to the Rolling stones concert on October 19 at Tmobile Arena Las Vegas and I can't make it. Great seats in lower section 8 rows from the floor if anyone is interested in seeing The Stones in Vegas check out my post in marketplace. Selling below cost.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17.../#post50935009

Ha, I had tickets to their "farewell tour" sometime in the early 2000's.

double ha

I saw em in 81 and I was sad cuz they were old

Was that a farewell tour also? They jack the prices way up because everyone thinks it'll be the last chance to see them. Luckily I got comped by ETrade, the tour sponsor. Face value for 2 tix was $600.00!

(I did have excellent seats, 2 seats away from the catwalk between stages)

It was not a farewell tour. Saw em at the meadowlands...Tina Turner warmed up for them. She was washed up at the time and in the process of making a comeback. I was in the 10th grade at the time. Tix were reasonably priced. If I had to guess I paid under 25 bux for em

Here's a couple of my stubs from back then. 1981 was $15. 1978 was $12.50.







Lol @ Start times of 12:00 noon and 2:00 pm. They were always huge events. I think the openers were Journey, George Thorogood and the Destroyers, April Wine, and ARS.

Good times!

Rain or shine? Thought nobody did that any more. I know when I was selling my tickets, forecasts for rain killed the price.

Tangent: I miss ticket stubs.

I miss frank zappa and ticket stubs...

Schu!!!!

Had the chance to see zappa back around 82...dug him but as a youngin had zero clue how fukkin sick he was. So sad I never saw him live. Apostrophe is still my go to album!!

YES!...

I knew you were the man W. I hope all is well dude.

The first song of his I ever heard was Dynamo Hum, so I had a pretty good idea of his sickness. There was a college radio station that would play this stuff late at night. I guess the guy, who was a student, got yelled at for playing it and it was our weekly challenge every weekend to call in and try to talk him into playing it.

things are great mang! Hope all is well with u. Ill be back in lv this fall - will hit u up fosho. We will talk zappa and Ill buy u breakfast at bouchon!!!

Squid... update on life in Fla and game quality? Why you heading back to Vegas etc? The fans want to know!