There is no such "good" argument; that argument is in fact ignorant and asinine.

"Letting the virus run its course" would result in many more deaths than fully vaccinating the population. So, you first.

And just so you know: the possessive form of "its" does not contain an apostrophe. "It's" is a contraction of "it is."

Yeah, hell, what's five or ten thousand dead kids, anyway. Breakage. Chump change. Little bastards.

I am absolutely baffled by a response like this. The vaccine works! It is the cure! The possibility of hurting other vaccinated people by not getting vaccinated is minuscule! Stop minimizing the effectiveness of the vaccine and maybe more people would get it! There is no way that not getting the vaccine is as dangerous to a vaccinated person or child is as dangerous as driving a rocket-powered armored truck 100 mph down the freeway!!! If you believe this you are the crazy person!

Do you even know how many kids in America aged 0-11 have died of covid since 1/01/2020?

The answer is 185. It would take over 27 years at this pace to get to 5000 dead kids. 54 years to get to 10,000 dead kids. Stop spreading misinformation. You are the other side of the horseshoe of right wing antivaxers. Once again this is without factoring in the impact lockdowns and school closures have on children! Get it together people!

To Randall's point, akin is this question:

If some people choose not to wear a seatbelt in a car, should I stop driving so as to lower their chances of getting in a (fatal/serious) car crash by having less cars on the road to crash into? By doing so, my already low risk goes to 0, so I'm also being much more cautious, but at what cost to me? And is that a trade-off most would make, or should?

I am concerned about my fellow citizens, naturally, but I'm not going to willfully sacrifice more than they are willing to sacrifice. If they can't be bothered to get the vaccine, that shouldn't obligate me to mask up/lockdown again b/c I did get the vaccine.

I would like this public health crisis to end as soon as possible, however I seriously question the effectiveness of masking efforts when 50% of my countrymen are unvaccinated and will remain so indefinitely, especially if allowed to 'mask' as an alternative*. I think it's time to let Darwin take over. for all involved.

To Batman/Robin: your point is made - Delta has increased the risk to everyone, including the vaccinated. However, an increase from 0.003% to 0.0075% (note: these #s are squarely from my own a**, and are only there to prove a point about a 2.5x increase that you tout) to the vaccinated doesn't move the needle for most, if not all, to an unhealthy risk.

Your personal choice is your personal choice, and your opinion of what is safe for others/masses is yours as well, and both have been made many times over. I'm not sure the path you're going down now of arguing with every poster who disagrees is helping your cause, of which you seemed to genuinely care about when your posting in this thread started.


*note - this is without even bringing into question how effective 6' of distance is, and/or cloth masks worn improperly by >50% of the population.

Implementing a new mask mandate for employees is absurd. Casino employees are almost universally already vaccinated. It’s everyone else who hasn’t gotten vaccinate who is responsible for spreading the virus.

And masks are not the solution anyway, vaccines are. Covid cases were skyrocketing while the mask mandate was in place last fall and winter. They dropped once people started getting vaccinated.

If anyone actually wanted to solve this problem for good, they would completely ditch the masks and issue a vaccine mandate instead.

Why are we desigining our health policy around the interest of appeasing conspiracy theorists?

Nonsense followed by exclamation points! Is always much more believable!

You betray your basic misunderstanding of the idea. My analogy was illustrating that you can engage in behavior that is only minimally risky to YOU but highly risky to others. Like prancing around unvaccinated, because YOU probably won't get sick.

I doubt! You fully understand! This! But what's really! Going on here! Is that you're trying to justify! Your behavior!!!

I can't help but note that your avatar is some idiot screaming, as if screaming made one's arguments more valid.

There are two major elements of risk to kids that didn't exist before: a) the much more contagious Delta variant, and b) the fact that until now, they weren't attending school in person. Virus infections are a function of person-to person contacts. If you consider that a child attending school has FAR more contacts with others (adults AND other kids) than one who stays home--and then factor in the more than doubled transmissibility of the Delta variant--the risk is much, much greater than it was previously, or it will be when school starts.

Yes, kids don't learn as well when taking virtual classes. But sick kids and dead kids also tend to perform poorly.

Yes (duh), but what's the solution when half of the population refuses to get vaccinated?

(I personally favor FORCING people to get the goddamn shots. Screw your freedumb, this is a public health emergency. Perhaps a milder version of coercion could work. Maybe something like a $1000 tax credit for all those who are fully vaccinated?)

Fully vaccinated people can still transmit the virus, and of course, in a crowded environment where half the people aren't vaccinated, there is still a significant risk of such transmission. So casino employees are wearing masks to protect their (idiot unvaccinated) customers, not themselves.

And yes, if we were all fully vaccinated, we wouldn't need to wear masks.

We seem to have strayed from the thread title but we're still talking about Covid19 specifically in casinos/Las Vegas now right?

Because sorry/not sorry but at this point the unvaccinated have made their choice.

Couple of things.

1 - Whether for political freedumb issues or because the conspiracy theory voices in their head told them not to, those folks ARE NOT getting the shots. They have consciously decided to not get the vaccine.

2 - They have made their choice and *nothing* you can tell them is going to change that. Continuing to yell at them is not going to get a shot in their arm.

Given that, thinking that we are miraculously going to get to 75 or 80% or so is just a pure pipe dream. Clark County has plateaued below 40% for a long time now, they arent going to just suddenly get to 60% - or even 50%. NOT happening.

So, we have to move on at some point.

And please - again specifically talking about LV/casinos - please stop telling me about someone's 89 year old grandpa who is so sick that he cant get a vaccine or your 6 year old who doesnt like wearing a mask. Maybe the casino isnt the best place for them right now.

A thousand cases in a day now in Nevada for the first time since January. If we do see mask mandates for everyone starting in August, it will be interesting to see how long that lasts.

It will also be interesting to see if cases continue to rise, or if things take a similar pattern to what we saw last year. In 2020 we saw a big wave in the summer, but in the fall cases declined dramatically, and then we got hit hard in the winter.

1. My father died a month before I was born, my grandparents when I was a child, my mother a few years ago. I live alone in central London and have not met anyone over 70 for years. Bur of course people like you would never understand context or nuance.

2. I have had wonderful discussions at the poker table recently about anti-lockdown protests, not getting vaccinated and personal freedom in general. I guess some people in real life are actually quite OK as opposed to some of the totalitarian keyboard warriors in this thread.

actually I'm a very feminine guy, no penis swinging contest here

Fair comment, the thing is if you go through the covid vaccine route the plan seems to be to get 2 doses now, one booster this winter and then 1-2 doses per season ever after.
Some people get very sick after each dose + we do not know for sure the long term implications of these jabs. My personal risk/reward ratio points me to the natural immunity route.

the fact you cannot find any sensible reason to explain why some people want to go through this vaccine-free says more about your lack of research and open mindedness than my alleged conspiracy theories.

The science for masks usage to help combat the virus spread was already pretty weak, and it's probably safe to say now that we have one and a half year of real life data, that instituting a mask mandate in a city / state / country have no real effect on the case numbers. Even if you are able to prove a slight effect in a clinical study, the data are clear that they do not have any effect in the real world. Whether that is because masks are what they are, or if it's the people using them incorrectly is hard to say.

For Vegas there will always be an incentive to not have a mask mandate, for obvious reasons, so they will probably look for reasons to not mandate it. If they look at the data, that's the reason they need right there.

Actually we do - because thats how vaccines work.

Any vaccine side effect generally shows up at most within a couple of months - thats why there was such widespread efficacy testing. Any reputable expert that has been interviewed is quick to point out that vaccine side effects dont work the way say you would take a daily heart medication for ten years and not know the side effects.

I get a flu shot every year. Pretty sure they dont do long term, ten year studies on that years individual shot. Because thats not how it works.

Anyone that is hanging their hat on "I dont know what this vaccine will do to me 20 years from now so I'm not going to get it" is just being ignorant of the actual data and science and lets be clear - they really were never that interested in getting it anyway.

And - thats your choice.

Agree with this 100%. I would also add that we don't completely understand the long term effects of contracting COVID.

So on one hand we have a great understanding of how vaccines work, and on the other hand, an incomplete understanding of the long term effects of contracting COVID.

1. Yeah, "people like me"

2. Sure, "wonderful discussion" .... were you wearing masks by any chance ? (I've played in a few of those horrible venues in London that pass for poker rooms. Stinking, crowded, smoky, noisy basement rat holes, although I kind of recall that the Stars venue had a second floor with a balcony where there was actually a door to open for fresh air .... )

I'll accept your notions of context and nuance. I mean you ARE English, so wtf would I, an ignorant 'merican, know about rhetoric ?

I’d be way more concerned about what having the actual COVID virus does to you in 20 years than any vaccine.

I still don’t understand how people are fine getting sick for a week, regardless of fatality and additional spreading and mutation risks.


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Agreed there is no correlation between any of the public health measures employed other than vaccination and per capita deaths. Anyone who says otherwise is abusing the data. The correlation may even be negative - most of the worst jurisdictions had very aggressive measures.

As to vaccinations those that want them have them. Forcing experimental treatments on those that don't want them or even using coercion is highly unethical. It's time to ignore the problem - those that want protection have it or are children that are effectively immune.

... as did that of Typhoid Mary.

I don't see a required shot being legally feasible in the US but a vaccine passport (yes that's the evil name for it but it's the same as vaccination records required by schools for all students or proof of vaccination required by countries to enter) would help convince people to get the shot if those passports were required in many places that people wanted to go.

I could see an argument for not requiring them at basic needs places like grocery stores but casinos, concerts, sporting events, cruise ships, and such would be great to know that everyone in the building has been vaccinated.

Also, I understand people will cheat the system by forging vaccination records and such but that is a small percentage and fines and jail time could easily deter such actions.

One small step in what I think is the right direction is that, starting Aug 1, I will no longer need to shove a stupid Covid test up my nose to board a plane back to the US. The new policy waives a pre-boarding test upon proof of being vaccinated.

And there you have it. lol