Of course its declining. Its declining everywhere. It will only improve with the general economy.

From a lot of hours of experience, games you sit in in LA are likely to be "easier" than their Vegas counterparts.

Also, I will agree that 5/10+ is declining in Vegas. Unfortunately it's usually at LEAST 6 regs and myself. Take that as you will.

incorrect statement about an average 2/5 game being 7-8 recreational players imo

agree w/this, although vegas 2/5+5/T still v soft

What? No.

not really months in advance. there is a waiting list and youre not sitting around doing nothing youre in another great game thats going on the floor, its a free roll, at least 3 people from the wait list get on every night.

some people play a tiny bit different. they definitely fold less once involved in a pot because psychologically its less painful for everyone to see you make a light call than it is for everyone to see you get bluffed.

the limit games are the toughest to fill, no one plays limit! lol.

i have the most fun commentating limit games. wish there were more of them.

For a meh rec player like me whose within driving distance of both it's not close. On average Vegas has tougher players and it's been apparent for the last few years.

I agree with Limon's assessment wholeheartedly. As someone who's logged thousands of hours in both cities, at stakes from 1/2NL up to 5/10NL, LA games are far more juicier. Vegas is more of a party destination these days, not so much gaming, and definitely not so much poker anymore. Back in 2006-08, before BF, poker was crazy action all over town. There'd be 4 2/5NL games at places like The Mirage with long lists and random 5/10NL games would break out at the MGM when higher stakes fish would want to fire up a game. Rooms were cheap and comps/offers were plentiful. Now games are sparse, hotels are squeezing every nickle and dime from tourists, and regs dominate games higher than 2/5NL.

Less than 10 years ago, I could drive to Vegas, book 3 or 4 days for less than $200 TOTAL at a decent hotel, and get comped food for playing 2/5NL or higher. Now, just staying at a nice hotel (Aria for example) with my wife for the weekend costs us upwards of $750. Factor in food, entertainment, etc...and gaming is the last thing on my mind, poker included. Regardless of flying or driving, a "weekend" in Vegas costs $1,000 before any additional entertainment sans food. Even as an M-Life Platinum, the offers I get are a complete ****ing joke, with most of them giving good rates only mid week.

The only problem with LA is getting from A to B. It's not uncommon to spend an hour in the car, an hour waiting for a seat, then finally getting into a game. It seems like lots of rooms don't except call-ins either, unless you're a reg who's known to tip well. (I am not a reg at any room these days)

The only positive in Vegas is the ability to stay at or near poker destinations (ie Aria, Venetian, Wynn, etc...) and getting into games rather quickly. Combine that with the fact that I can enjoy the occasional cocktail or two, and not have to worry about driving home, which in LA I do not and would never do, it sometimes makes the experience a little more enjoyable. Maybe tolerable is a better description since games these days are pretty much only filled with people who lack personality and a general understanding of the human condition.

much too my surprise the Flamingo has fired up 2-4 limit with great success and they're really good fun games. last friday they had 2 1-2nl going and 4 2-4 limit tables

It would actually be fun to see Live@theBike or a similar show on a 2/4 LHE game or whatever their smallest stake game is.

I 110% agree!!!! stakes have nothing to do with fun, action, or even learning from what ive seen. Smaller games are far better and more informative IMO. Watching dudes youll never meet or play against fold KK pre in a 50-100nl game will never help you in your 5=5 game where you can watch your ACTUAL opponents play live.

QFT. Other than the WSOP, I seldom Vegas any more. When I do go, it's usually mid-week and I have to take time off work. Weekends are pretty much ridiculously too expensive, even at the fairly cheap places. Three day weekends are basically out of the question.

You probably don't notice it at 2/5 and higher, but at 1/2, the lower rake in Vegas is definitely noticeable. Plus, the 1/2 is more "pure" compared to the game I play in California. The high drop in Cali distorts the low-limit games and I feel short-stacked even buying in max.

I've lived and played in both cities and even during the boom games were always softer in Los Angeles. But the cost of living negates any such advantage and the rake in L.A. for most games in unbeatable. The buy in caps are too small and the rake too high for anyone to be able to beat. There is no question that games like $1-$2 and $2-$5 in Vegas are more nitty and tougher to play. And I think still too many people overestimate the possibility of being able play such stakes for a living, even in a town that has a lower cost of living. It was a more reasonable proposition back in the day with the presence of online poker, but such is obviously no longer the case with sites like WSOP offering a mere fraction of previous traffic.

The question on first post was playing poker for a living.

I believe playing poker for a living is impossible in either city for good players unless:

1. You have 1 years worth of living expenses saved (there are break even years). (Living bankroll)

2. 100 times your buy in. (Playing bankroll)

That's the formula after 15 years of my own research. Lol!

Most don't have that.

Limon has even said he has a side gig and recommends nobody play poker full time. It's a losing and disappointing proposition for 99 percent. He said he knows full time players that are just completely miserable and depressed on other podcasts. I believe it.

That being said, I love the convenience of the strip but hate all the tourists and bachelor parties. Annoying annoying!!
Unfortunately, the traffic in La is hell.
The high roller pokers players in California are the dudes that have had great success and fortune in other business ventures .. They are fearless and will swallow you wth their giant bankrolls.

I stay at home and play in local casino and online (Bovada).

I do have question for Limon.

He says all local players in Vegas are nitty,broke , and holding down chairs but then complains about the rich old dude in Cali with the Titelist golf cap..


Man I love you Limon and love your show and you crack me up.

But what gives?

Declining?

in vegas yes when compared to a few years ago... as a whole out side of vegas, absolutely not

It seems like the casinos on the east coast that are opening up over the past 5-10 years are doing the most damage to Vegas' poker scene because people can get their poker fix without hopping on a plane.

I'm not going to say it's in a full on decline, but even in L.A. Hollywood Park has closed down entire sections of the floor that used to house cash games. The Bike has lost a game here and there and while the Commerce is still a juggernaut, I wouldn't necessarily say that they picked up all the games/tables that the other rooms lost.

i never complain about the rich old dude in titlest cap! PLOPPIES ARE MY LIFE!

Oops my bad.. Did not read the last 2 paragraphs

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...poker-1550942/

The long running LHE games at Bally's died, but the games thrive at the Flamingo.

Poker players are a fickle bunch.

As someone who play professionally part-time in Vegas, primarily 1/3 and 2/5, with a few shots at 5/10, I have noticed a slight dip in the number of games - but the quality of the games are still damn good. Fishy as hell. If you're playing a 2/5 game with 4 pros, request a table change. The 2/5 at Aria can be tight as hell sometimes, but there is always another game that is action jackson.

And if you can't find a better 2/5 game, play a 1/3.

Nah. I don't play 20/40 LHE, but a winning player can make a living. It may not be high on the hog living, but should be comfortable. So obviously 40/80 and 80/160 and higher can provide a good living. One big plus for L.A., if SoCal is anything like NorCal, is that "prime time" is not just the weekend nights like it is in Vegas. It's more like normal 9-5 workday hours. There are earnable games available far more than 2000 hours a year.

You are doing it wrong if you have a break even year. Unless you are a tournament clown, I guess :/

if you think games in vegas are good you probably have never played poker outside of vegas