The tipping analogies do't hold up because they have nothing to do with the issue of fees...

And this is true regardless of of we are talking about a corporation or not.

If you're right it's only from a legal standpoint

Ethics and principle have nothing to do with the law

I just find it amusing when people try and justify being unethical and deceitful with resort fees while those same people would bash someone for not tipping

Not everyone agrees with your opinion of resort fees being unethical and deceitful, as is obvious ITT.

This works both ways. It's clear neither side is going to change the opinions of the other, so maybe this thread has run its course.

I would never justify being unethical or deceitful with resort fees.

I just find nothing unethical or deceipt about disclosed resort fees.


the fact that you don't like them doesn't make them unethical or deceiptful.

MGM also transferred them over to a parking company that so far has refused to pay them close to what they want. They are so upset at the way they have been treated by both MGM and the parking company that they are threatening to strike. In my hypothetical scenario where I stiff dealers, angle, stiff waitresses, etc., no employess get treated nearly as poorly as the valet workers have been treated by MGM.

It'e irrelevant whether they have anything to do with the issue of fees. The REASONING used to defend each of them is the same. And the reasoning used is very relevant.

The reasoning to defend resort fees is that they are not deceptive as people are claiming. And I agree that tipping is not deceptive. But lots of things are not deceptive that have nothing to do with each other.

The reason people dislike them is they think they are unethical and deceitful. It's amazing to me that anybody would think they are not.

What is deceiptful about fully disclosed fees?

Suppose your DeLorean breaks down and you call 2 mechanics for prices on the repair.

Both tell you the Flux capacitor needs to be replaced.

The first mechanic tells you he will do the job for $2000.

The second mechanic tells you it will cost $1500 for labor $450 for parts and $50 Flux capacator disposal fee you must use his parts and the disposal fer is mandatory.

Is the second mechanic being deceiptful?

How is that different then the room rate is $140 and there is a mandatory $30 resort fee?

What if when you bought the car, they said you would get "comped" oil changes every 5000 miles, but when you went in to get the first one, there was a large disposal fee? You wouldn't find that misleading?

Yes. But I don't find it analogous to hotel resort fees. If you have some circum stance where it is analgous for you then that situation may be deceptive..... but the resort fees alone are not.

It's analogous to the way resort fees used to be (sticker shock after the fact), but they aren't like that anymore.

I agree they are often treated as people. I disagree that should be the case.

I agree it's "kind of" an artificial person. I disagree it's the same as an artificial person. It's more like a robot.

A corporation is a legal entity which exists for a specific - and defined - purpose. Its purpose is defined by its charter and bylaws, and its purpose is usually to make money.

Its ownership is people, but for publicly traded C corporations, that's many people, each with different morals (S corporations and LLCs are arguably different because there may be very few shareholders). The only thing those people have in common is the purpose of the corporation (again, S corps and LLCs may be different if a small group of shareholders share other values). A person who thinks gambling is evil can be a shareholder; a person who thinks gambling is awesome can be a shareholder. The only goal in common is stock appreciation.

It's not about me not liking them. I don't like parking fees either but those aren't unethical or deceitful at all.don't wanna pay for parking don't park here.fair enough.there are lots of things I don't like but that doesn't make them ethical or unethical.

Lying about resort fees being for my convenience while not letting me opt out is unethical and deceiotful.for a few years you could even book online and not know about the resort fees till you check in.so I guess that's ethical and not deceitful also.I should thank the casinos for not being quite that scummy anymore. They're having artificially low prices displayed in hotel sites like orbitz.com to screw the customer and the site.totally ethical though!




Following your logic stiffing dealers and waiters is fine also.there's an implied contract to tip them in the US but just ignore that and give them nothing. Not unethical at all.

I never experienced a time where resort fees were not disclosed. But if you agree that isn't currently the case than I don't see how the current system is somehow unethical or deceiptful. As for saying it's for your convenience ..... how is that an issue? Are you somehow fooled into paying it because of that claim? It is more convenient to some people who might be using all the amenities and might otherwise have to pay seperate fees. But even if it's not true it's not true in the way that donut shop claiming to be the best donuts in the world us untrue ... its clearly just market puffery.

The fees are like parking fees. If you don't want to pay a parking fee don't park there. Well if you don't want to pay the resort fee ... don't stay there. Just like if you don't want to pay the room rate don't stay there. If the you don't like the grocery store that charges you three cents for each bag they pack your groceries in.... shop somewhere else.

Again nothing to do with tipping. I have no idea how you conclude there is an implied social contract not to charge a disclosed resort fee.

The tipping analogy just completely fails....

No if I don't want to pay the resort fee don't use any of the **** the resort fee includes.
That would be fair.

Intentionally showing an artificially low price on hotel search sites is deceptive.
So is charging me for things I don't want or use.
Notice with parking they charge people who actually park their for parking not people who dont.

And there absolutely was a time and it lasted a while where you wouldn't be told how much the fee was until you went to check in.
I've also,booked room showing the resort fee is x dollars for a room months down the road and when I check in they try and charge me a new higher resort fee.

But keep defending these unethical scum.

As for tipping
You don't think stiffing dealers and waiters is unethical and deceitful?

Agreed. So who should you bitch at?

The poker dealer at the casino?

The hotel, which for all you know is actually saving you money?

Or the search site on which the results are displayed?

So if they just added the amount of the resort fee into the room rate it would be fair to charge that rate even to people who don't use all the amenities? Or would it be deceiptful and unethical not to then discount the rate for people who don't use them?

It would seem to me that your objection should be with the search site that doesn't factor those fees into their results.

They only charge you for the things you agree to pay for. If you don't want to pay what they charge you are free to take your business elsewhere. If they simply factor those things into the base price you would still be paying for things you don't want or use.


You do know there are hotels that charge a parking fee whether or not you use their parking?

And if that happened to you I would agree that was unethical and deceitful. But since that isn't the practice we are talking about in the current situation it is irrelevant to whether such fees as they are now disclosed are unethical or deceiptful.


and if that in fact happened intentionally as opposed to an error I would agree it was unethical and deceiptful. But again not relevant to your general position that resort fees are inherently unethical and deceiptful. If you booked a room at a given base rate and when you got there they tried to charge you a higher base rate that would be unethical and deceiptful but it would mean charging people for a room is inherently unethical or deceiptful.

While i can argue that in some cases it is unethical and deceiptful (not all cases) it still has nothing to do with resort fees.

tl;dr

deceit, deceitful

receipt, receiptful? Deceiptful?

The purpose of the $30 resort fee is to have another way to nickel and dime the customers. In other words, greed. And that's why there is so much frustration and complaining about it. The suggestion that it's only there to tell customers what they are paying for is clearly wrong IMO.

What do you guys think of this news?

They mention Mandalay Bay struggling and I've occasionally parked in the garage the last few months and noticed it was much emptier than I was used to seeing it. I was also wondering why the poker room was getting a lot less business recently. However I haven't noticed a difference when I parked at Aria and Bellagio.

You seem to assume that without the resort fee the customer would save $30. I do not think that is the case. I think if their was not a resort fee the base rate would just be $30 higher.

Using a resort fee as a way of raising the price is a way to market the value of your product even with the increased price. You get to say yes I know that we may be more expensive than other option but remeber all these Amenities we are giving you which distinguish us. This is especially true in the age of internet search sites which focus on price differences...... More expensive options want to draw focus to what they offer.

The bolded is utter nonsense.
If that was the case they would just charge 30 dollars more especially on their own site

It's to artificially make room rates look lower when comparing costs to other properties and it's a head game.

Truly mind boggling you can actually believe they would just charge 30 dollars more without the fees and make the same amount of money.if they could they would.they can't so they don't.

They don't implement a change that pissed off the vast majority of their customers to make the same amount of money.