this whole thread can be summed up with a quote from Moneyball.

Billy Bean (Brad Pitt) is trying to recruit a guy to play first base. "...it's not that hard, tell him Wash..."

Wash: "...it's incredibly hard..."

This. Listen to Starberry. I think it's worth mentioning Warren Buffett's quote about his billions of dollars. It relates to why making < 80k/yr is so different from making more than 80k/yr:

Sure, I'd be happier with a billion dollars in the bank. But not a billion times happier than I am already. Conversely, if I my net worth and salary were cut in half I'd be far less happy than 50%. It's like the ICM for life.

Anyway, I agree with the posts that say Starberry has been nailing it. Well done.

Now I am blushing!!!

If you are in town this weekend, I will likely be able to repay the compliment by dumping off $500 to you at 2-5 when I try to bluff the nuts with air.

PcolaDog,

I've browsed through some of the posts and would like to point out a few things, and perhaps I can offer you a perspective as I just finished college and have been doing this for a living for the past six months.

First, let's say you have a crappy 8-5 job making an okay wage, but you hate it. You hate the grind of going in everyday, and although you may love poker now, but it becomes a job, and after awhile you might regret this career choice. You hate your boss, your hours, and your co-workers. Sure your deep hatred for them will affect your mood but at the end of the day if you finish your work reasonably, you'll get paid. In poker, emotional instability doesn't mean you only don't get paid, it probably means you'll lose quite a lot of money. I think the biggest thing for Poker players trying to play for a living to overcome isn't sports betting or table games or hookers and blow, it's sitting there watching all the fishes play bad cards, overbetting the pot and building their stack up from 1k-10k while you still have to sit there playing good solid poker. Winning poker. This may just be for me, but the toughest things I have to overcome is the mental factor of playing top notch poker everyday all day.

The second thing I'd like to mention is that unfortunately, both online and live poker have a lot of variance that takes time to be evened out. It may take online poker a week, which would take live poker a year. Let's say you clear on average 60k a year playing poker grinding the small stakes. But that number is only that, an average. Which can look like this. First year you make 65k, you live happily, down payment a condo, put a little savings away. The second year you make 90k, pay off a little bit more on your condo, save a little bit more, take a nice vacation to reward yourself for a good year. Third year you make 20k, barely enough to make basic life payments, you dip into your savings or investments just to get by, and your roll might be hurt by this. That is a 60k a year average. The years you reach or go over your goal will feel f*cking awesome, the year or even month you don't will suck more than anything.

What I am saying is that if you do decide to give this a shot, your goal can not be too low. Your "average" goal needs to be higher to sustain the variance, which means grinding 5-10 and playing 10-20 when the game is good (ie. tournaments, weekends, special fishes), to perhaps even just playing 10-20 or 10-25 for a living. If your average is 100k, that means you'll probably make between 50k-150k, which even at the low end is sustainable for life.

Wish you luck on your decision, OP, I think at our age is the perfect time to give this a shot.

^ Really good post.

ETA: And thank you to the posters who linked/PMd me the links to Limon's stuff.

This! I am not saying to disregard the other advice received but the statement above pretty much sums it up.

Dumb poker players blow their winnings.

Thinking poker players reinvest their winnings into their bankroll, and with work on their game hope to move up and make more money.

Truly intelligent poker players realize that poker is a declining industry that is getting tougher all the time, and invest as much of their winnings as they can into other pursuits that are legal, regulated, more protected, and offer much higher returns longterm(eg. trading, real estate, business, etc etc). Of course, you're not going to succeed in those things without a lot of time invested studying it, but that's no different from poker. It's just that the government isn't there to ban any of those things unlike online poker, people in those industries who scam as openly as Howard Lederer did are usually put in jail instead of being allowed to openly still play at the Bellagio and Aria, and despite how much trading sites charge you per trade, considering how much you can make with each trade it's still wayyyyy lower than how much poker players are being raked both live and online. Plus, those other things are not going away anytime soon, and the boom and bust cycles always repeat and with proper knowledge you *can* get on the right side of the cycle. However, with poker, I think there will never be another "Chris Moneymaker" moment again... it's over, money is still there to be made but 2005 2006 ain't ever gonna happen again.. if you missed out on the moneytrain then don't delude yourself into thinking that if you stick around long enough then there will be another boom like that...

I have to point out that there are so many people out there who lose money trading. It is difficult to make money in that field even without the government banning it.

What is with all of the poker hate in this thread? It isn't so bad. It's better to try it and fail than to be one of those people who always wish they gave it a shot.

People can buy some BS ETF that's short palladium and 4x levered (and they have no f'cking idea what palladium is)

People can trade FX/currencies 50 to 100x levered (so 1% move the wrong way, you get wiped out)

But somehow gov't thinks that's ok and playing poker for $0.05/0.10 blindes is not.

WTF

because the government regulates trading and gets $$$ from those who operate in it.

and the government wasn't getting a dime from Pokerstars... now that there's been a settlement($750million from PS to USA), of course, PS is also allowed to apply for a licence if/when online poker becomes legal again..

and then, of course, part of the rake you pay will still go to the government...

Gambling's immoral and dangerous you silly, just like the reefer.

Maybe internet poker is illegal but live poker is allowed and there are now more card rooms than ever. Play poker. Don't do drugs. Stay in school. Watch out for strippers and table games.

Did this thread reach a conclusion yet?

Not very obtainable, but if you obtain you must abstain.

Read the whole thread and cannot understand why people are hating on those who work as try to succeed and become wealthy. Some people saying they suck the wealth from the economy etc.

At least those people are creating something of substance, jobs etc. I like playing poker but what does a poker player do to improve the economy etc. All a poker player does is suck money from people who are out to have a good time. Recreational players etc

Obv this post will be hated but if everyone decided to become poker players the world economy would stop.(bit of an over exaggeration but just highlighting the message)

From my experience Op with a few people I know who play full time I would serious reconsider. I know one person who openly admitted that he dreads sitting at a poker table worse than any job but has out almost 15yrs into it and doesn't see a way out.

Hope it works out but you have to be 100% sure you want this lifestyle.

30-40k sound great now when you are a student but wait until you got bills etc or want to buy a BMW etc that some of your mates got.

well said

If I remember correctly from the beginning of this thread, the guy is young and just beginning his adult life with a first major career move. To lock him into poker for the rest of his life or even the next 10 years is crazy. He can try poker for 6 months to 3 years and see how it goes.

There is no reason to goths conventional route so early in your life and lock yourself into a career path without exploring your options (such as poker.) In fact, this is the BEST time for OP to try this out and see what happens.

I feel that many people on this thread want to discourage others from trying a wild dream with little risk simply because they either need tried it when they still could (before wife, kids, locking into a different career path) or are afraid to try it now and use their excuses to discourage others for trying their dreams.

If he was in the same boat and was trying to be a professional baseball player getting a spot on a single A roster making $18K a year, I'm sure most of you would say go for it and see what happens because you are young and might never get a shot like this again.

Yup... and basically if someone is not smart/dedicated enough to make 100k/yr outside of poker.... that person isn't smart/dedicated enough to make 100k/yr in poker.

Cheers & see you later next month!

S

I don't really like the argument that poker pros don't provide anything. I don't think the average 9-5er provides significantly more or less to the economy. It might be a stretch but having regulars willing to play games the rec players want at the stakes and times they want really is providing a service. Outside of a few big areas, how many places could sustain regular poker games above 1/2 without all the 3-6 day per week players? As regular players we also pay somewhere between 15 and 25 bucks an hour to the casino who provides wages for hundreds of employees.

The world economy would stop if everyone decided to become any one occupation, no matter what it was. Doctors are great, but if everyone tried to be one we would have major problems.

Poker players provide for the economy by being customers of the card rooms, no different than if they were going to a movie and supporting the film industry. It may not be the most productive or beneficial-to-society use of those dollars, but it's kind of a silly argument to get into that.

Poker players are more than just customers of card rooms. They're customers of everything; grocery stores, clothing stores, utility companies, entertainment companies, and the list goes on. Anyone who consumes is vital to society. Consumers provide jobs. Poker players provide jobs.

I feel poke players provide as much to society and the economy as day traders. No one even try arguing that day traders add value and invest in companies. It is just the same "give me money" mentality.

Poker players provide the same entertainment value as dealers and people in similar positions.

This has already been touched upon, but I will just add on to it. If everybody just decided to play baseball, our economy would stop. If everybody decided to act or sing, our economy would stop. However, those are things that people will pay to watch, and there is nothing wrong with that. They add things to society that are not easy to put an economic number on.

As far as poker players go, winning players are essentially paid by losing players for the entertainment provided - whether that is engaging in the challenge of attempting to win at a challenging game or simply not caring how you do and just wanting to enjoy a fun game with others.