Don't do it. They are all broke. You will go broke.

Do something productive with your life. Play poker as a hobby.

If you play the highest stakes going you can do well, but if you got the roll for that then you do not need to play. Good value in the Ivey room at the Aria.

If you are the other 99.99% of people playing smaller, you will go broke.

I also have no doubt that you will not listen to me. When you go broke and in years down the line, remember this and read it again.

Do something in life you enjoy and be productive.

The above is not true at all. I've been playing low stakes poker professionally for the past 4 years. I'm not even close nor have I ever been close to going broke.

I should have said it better. Loads will end up broke but a tiny few will manage to grind out a small living. You will never be rich and you are putting a major cap on your life. You would be better off in a 9-5 job.

I do not know one person who has been playing 20+ years who I would think is really happy in life. And all this is if you are one of the lucky few. Otherwise at some point you will go on a sick downstring when the numbers catch up with you or you might blow up. In any case, you are giving up a career or a huge life elsewhere.

Just look around in your local casino and everyone. Which guy do you want to be?

I see your point but being a pro beats a lot of low wage jobs out there, such as working at a hot air balloon place.

You can make close to 20 pert hour at the very lowest stake at 1 2 NL. Plus your hours are uncapped so you can work more than 40 hours a week.

Being a 2 5 crusher is good money for anyone. Even a 5bb per her hour nit strategy will land you around 25 dollars per hour. Not bad money compared to lots of scrap jobs.

I do not know anyone who beats 1/2 over the long term due to the rake. Beating 2/5 is not a good wage for anyone.

If you are one of the tiny successful few who manage to do it over many years, good luck. People who follow this life still give up a whole life elsewhere and I do not know any happy cash game players long-term.

Comparing it to a scrap job or working at a hot air balloon place is probably accurate.

Bikeking:

Your PokerNews co-writer Brendon Trenholm made a mistake.

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=7893

I know the guy. He helped Scotty Nguyen enter the 1998 WSOP Main. Mike Takayama ain't it.

Beating 1 2 is easy as long as you are playing in a good game. The same spots come up over and over again where your opponents keep paying you off.

Its not glamorous I agree with you there. But if you can make double playing poker than you would at a minimum wage job then its a no brainer to play poker.

happy guy pro gambooler since 1992

Spent a good bit of my professional career as a counselor and life coach so I'll weigh in on this one...

Happiness from the outside (jobs, relationships, actions) is not necessarily long term and is often a distraction from internal conflicts and unease that need focus and attention.

Doubt I'd ever recommend becoming a "pro poker player" to anyone. However, if a person is truly happy it really doesn't matter what job they do.

I understand why you would argue that certain jobs make people miserable, as this appears to be the case on the surface. I would just argue that there are deeper problems and the person is more likely to upset about life choices and things they have done to put themselves in their current situation.

Stats on suicide and depression show us that having a "good" job doesn't make a person happy. I also do not believe that biological factors are the main cause of unhappiness. In my experience most cases can be traced back to loss, trauma, and poorly defined social structures in the person's home or community.

Again, wouldn't advise anyone to go pro. Definitely best as a hobby or a way to supplement income.

Why wouldn't you advise someone to go pro then?

I think one can sometimes read to much into happiness. I definitely agree that it is not all about having a good job. It is just that with poker, people are always trying to grind out a living and when the cards turn, it gets brutal.

I think the young naive person needs to be cautioned if they think they can just turn up and live the dream and make loads. That is the appeal to many.

I am in the Bellagio right now and there are long waiting lists. I am looking around wondering who among all these people are winning big or are very happy if this is all they do.

Someone above compared this to earning a minimum wage job. That is what should he said to those aspiring to be pros.

If you are that gifted and can make this work (and you are doing it for the money) then you could probably make a huge amount more doing something else.

It is a hard life whatever anyone says.

Then good luck to you.

I was more trying to warn that the majority will fail and not be happy....which fits in to many posts you previously made such as the following:

LW2C

you are 100% correct sir. Gamboolin is in fact a long lonely never ending road. But there are people who maintain a decent life balance and are happy. If you are familiar with any of my posts I advise everyone against being a pro for a laundry list of reasons. I was simply pointing out that there are people out there who make a comfy wage year in and year out who do take advantage of the lifestyle that it does offer. That being said in the current environment I personally think any one would be foolish to put their eggs into the pro poker player basket

plus turning pro in poker means you lose your favourite hobby.

First statement is completely false. There are many people who beat 1/2 over the long term. However if you mean over like 2k hours, of course not because almost everyone who wins at 1/2 for anything close to 2k hours won't still be playing 1/2. It's not hard to beat 1/2. Find a room with $6 rake or less and play a good exploitative game where you don't pay off nits, you don't bluff stations and you get max value with your good hands. As for $20/hr, that's attainable but rare and not something to be expected.

I do agree though that 2/5 is usually not a good wage. Especially after taxes. Just guessing but I'd say the average 2/5 grinder in Vegas makes 30k a year after taxes.

30k for a full time player seems a bit low, but I guess it could be the "average". If you check out Neeme, Vibes, and Brad Owen's vlogs, you can see they do way better than that. Its only Bikeking that makes the lifestyle seem so unappealing.

Well he needs viewers/subs before he can monetize. Absolutely zero chance of making a bean from the Vlog as it stands. What exactly are you expecting him to monetize from a few 1000 viewers? most of which would not be watching the full Vlog

I probably over simplified my thoughts on that one. I think there are certainly people who have the bankroll, skillset, balance in life and control over their ego to do it. Really thinking about a young person with that goal.

I'm no poker expert, but I see some issues with becoming a poker pro in the US today. I guess I am also thinking of a poker pro as someone who grinds their way up, not someone sitting on an infinite amount of money and could basically hop into 2/5 or 5/10 and lose heaps trying to learn. They have the resources to learn and do anything with their life.

I play 1/2 at Winstar. There are always numerous tables going, with 100s of 1/2 players in the room. For an aspiring pro trying to grind their way up, table selection is crucial. In this environment, table selection is relatively easy to do. Compare this to Vegas where there are 100s of 1/2 players spread out in numerous rooms. Table selection becomes more difficult. A person really has to have their ego in check to recognize that a table or room is not good for them, and then take the effort to seek out a better game. I'm sure this applies to 2/5 as well.

Now, I know I'm not good and I won't even go to the desk and ask for a table change most of the time. A younger, more inexperienced person would certainly have this same difficulty.

Then comes the grind. At the 2/5 level a crusher would need to get in at least 30 hours a week. If they can find good tables and be willing to go through the effort to move, they still have other pitfalls to avoid. Boredom being one as you certainly go through hours of not getting hands. The casino environment being full of negatives that could derail a young person's plan. The certainty of being around people with life issues (experienced this in counseling as well) that can have a negative impact on a person's thoughts and emotions. There are several more.

I just think it takes a certain type person that could make this work. I know they exist, but it's not just being good at poker. I'm doing an hourly goals challenge, myself. I play during the day with the OMCs. Everyone knows this is not the most optimal time to make money. However, I find these players more enjoyable to be around than drunken degenerate gamblers.

My primary point is that simply saying that a person can't be happy grinding 1/2 is not necessarily true. Especially focussing on how much money a person is making and their happiness as the primary factors. I think most of your reasoning is correct. I just don't see happiness and money as the most important factors in choosing poker as a job.

I don't know Bikeking. However, from the outside looking in, I can't help but think a better balance in life for him would be to get a really good job and play 2/5+ on the side. That being said, it is entirely possible to be happy living in your car and trying to grind up from the 1/2 level.

Neeme and Vibes are known crushers who play 5/10 though. Not sure if Brad Owen plays 5/10 but I'm sure he's a crusher at 2/5. Of course they're going to do better than 30k a year.

As for table selection in Vegas, sure there aren't rooms with 100+ 1/2 or 1/3 players in the same room, but the bigger rooms definitely have enough tables that you can table select easily. Caesar's 1/2 almost has 100 players during the WSOP anyways. Of course if you play at like Mirage, Bally's or Rio not during WSOP, then you're out of luck. But why would you play at those places?

To the above poster, it may be the case that Bike king can't find or isn't qualified for a really good job. Poker could be his best prospect as he has put in many hours playing and studying the game.

The kid is only young. No way to late to get a decent qualification and give him much better odds in life.

The smart play is to do that while grinding online/live to see if he can progress through the stakes that way....not lumping his whole life into playing cards at the casino at 25 years old with no real money.

I wish he would get back into aviation as it sounds like its a very lucrative field and he's not that old at all.

I'm pretty sure Owen plays a chunk of 5/10, maybe not as much as Neeme, tho. And I'm sure you are right, id guess they are both making 50k+. I know Neeme has talked about not getting a lot of hours since he started vlogging.

Table selection is a weak point for me so maybe I'm making too big a deal out of it. Also, only been to Vegas once. Like I said, I'm no expert.

I do have a decent amount of 1/2 hours. I guess I don't really trust the maturity of most young people who appear to be trying to be a pro. I don't really know any cash game pros, but I do know about 7 or 8 tourney grinders in their 20s and early 30s. Totally different game, I know.

All of these guys have hit decent scores and have egos that need to be checked. It's real apparent when they talk about their opponents and when they sit in the side games. Part of the reason we are friends is the fact that they have enough insight to know that what I tell them has merit. Full disclosure, I bonded with all of them smoking bud, so get a few grains of salt out. They just make similar mistakes again and again. All the while saying, "I know, I know."

I just think that poker is an interesting game because in a lot of ways it's a microcosm for life. I'm educated, trained, and old and I still struggle with ego. Heck, I got took to value town on three streets on a paired board last week. Pretty sure it was because my opponent was a fat heap and I was tilted about "pro" talk by this opponent. 99% percent of the time I fold the turn. Probably fold the flop 50% of the time.

Where I play, most of the aspiring pros are playing 1/3 and I only play with them when they are waiting for a table. Most of them seem pretty good. All of them seem to have a lack of respect for their opponents, tilt too easy, and seem way to impatient and entitled. I think most of that dissipates with maturity. I think it also fades when you've been grinding a real job, too.

But, whatever. I only got involved in this to make the point that playing 1/2 doesn't make people unhappy. I just haven't met a 25 year old that I would say, yeah, you got everything it takes, go be a pro poker player. Also, doesn't mean they can't learn and grow as they go. People are capable. It's how the old timers did it. At least the ones who are still around.

Then again, that would bring up other arguments, like the game has changed due to exposure, training resources, tv, youtube , etc....

In Vegas, even during slower times of the year, there are too many options, and you can end up chasing the dragon. You can be at one room and think, eh, the games are bad/ok here, but maybe X casino has better. So you squeeze your way through the strip to the next room and find that the games at X casino are not better. So you move on to casino Y, rinse/repeat. For the first 3 months I spent on the strip, I estimate I spent only about 60% of the time playing because I spent so much time room jumping/deciding what to do.

Game conditions here change really fast no matter what room you're in. I've had games go from OMC nitfests to great games in a matter of 15 minutes.
People try to hit and run here a lot, because the fish would rather not stick around and grind it out for 6 hours. They want to get it in and go play blackjack if they lose. If you're a competent player, I think you're better off picking a place and sticking it out/table selecting from within if the games get bad. If you're a winning player, it's better being in any 1/2 game than spending half the time walking aimlessly from hotel to hotel.

Lol. This was funny. What was he saying that tilted you?

Yeah, when people post about being disappointed that yet another (usually small) room in Vegas has closed, I see it as a plus for Vegas players cause it consolidates the poker action more to the bigger rooms, which improves table selecting at those rooms.