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Old 05-22-2018, 03:16 PM   #1851
boxcheck
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post
How about not being so eager to put players style of play into boxes as LAG or TAG? Poker isnt about predeciding what "style" you are gonna play, but rather be totally open to what is gonna happen at a particular day at a random table-and adjust to what is going on.

It have always been my opinion that good liveplayers are the ones who adjust constantly to the ongoing dynamics,different kind of villains,stacksizes and other peoples patterns. The really good players just makes the play that the spesific situation craves, even though that can be difficult for sure.

Limon have had some good rants on this one, when he explains how alot of players views him as a lag maniac because he is willing to mix it up with whales and loosy goosy players to exploit them, and alot of other players views him as a nutpeddling nit because he always shows up with the goods against them due to them being callingstations so he makes sure to have it.You need to pay attention, then execute the play that is neccesary to exploit the current situation. Its in these areas of the game alot of the magic is hidden, if youre aiming to be like water, you will fit effortlessly in everywhere.

And as Limon states if you master this: "You will become a beast. You will become a beast! People will simply not know how to handle you".

However, being able to constantly adjust and deploying exploitative plays requires that you pay freaking attention- wich OP seems to admit he is not doing. I find this fairly critical for a 2-5 grinder or above playing for a living to be honest, because that fact alone tells me that you simply are unable to gain the neccesary information needed in order to exploit whats happenning right in front of your eyes. If the decent grinder to your left have a sizing tell where he bets half pot with his value hands and close to full pot when he is bluffing, how are you gonna know if youre not paying enough attention? If the whale in the blinds is on likely monkeytilt from being sucked out in a big pot right before you get dealt KK on the button wich you obviously need to flat to let tilted whale blast off pre- how are you gonna know that he is tilted if youre sitting reading on your smartphone?

In my opinion and experience, i believe that paying extreme level of attention whenever i play is one of my biggest edges in livepoker, and i feel it often gets forgot and is not viewed as important as it really is.Alot of regs ive logged alot of hours with through the years have said to me that they are almost shocked about the level of detail that i observe and remember.Many people goes into the trap of thinking i am just a TAG nutpeddler (especially young lags who have seen Dwan videos on youtube and think they are the new hotshot), then they cant phathom how i seem to "always" end up with the money at the end of the night.One of the answers is that i pay attention, and i adjust. You need to be obsessed with it to become really good at it, like you need to know _everything_ that is going on at whatever table you sit at and that your life was depending on it.
Petrucci,

I alluded to those styles to give a very general example of the % of hands that people are playing. There are no ABC's to every style in each box as you stated.

Poker, just like life, is a game of adaptation. I adapt my style to the people I play against, and I gain that information by playing hands against them or watching them play hands against other people. The former is the best way to do it, because there are other thought processes involved against different opponents. Hence I increase my hand % and aggression % and see how my opponents react. Some players will fold 2 pair if I bet 2-3x pot, some will call with one pair. I play very unorthodox and I adjust my entire strategy depending on the opponent who is in the hand with me.
In order to do that, you have to pay attention all the time, but like up swinging said, if you are playing tight and paying attention 100% of the time, you will want to basically kill yourself.

Personally if I am playing a 2/5 reg and I get all my money in against them they are either way behind or a 50/50 at best. Any good player can adapt to a 2/5 or 5/10 reg the same way IMO.

And no matter how good you are, you still get it in at a 70/30 or even 80/20 favorite, you will still lose plenty of times. This is why poker is now fun for me and I got into running businesses instead.

I played with some of the best players in the world back in the old days, and held my own just fine. I just chose not to pursue the lifestyle for many different reasons.

Sorry to derail Cushlash, I am a big fan of your thread, and I respect anyone willing to take the pro route. I did it myself for 8 years, and it taught me so much about life that I can't even begin to explain. It also helped me bankroll my life and my business. 100% grateful for poker, and grateful that I learned so much and took so much away from it.
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Old 05-24-2018, 02:08 AM   #1852
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Thanks for all the replies, I have read everything even though I haven't responded in detail. No worries on any derails, the whole thread is one big derail.

I'm particularly happy to hear some people mention that they have gotten some value out of this thread and the few podcast episodes I did.

My main project that I wanted to spend more time on when I quit my job is that very podcast. I dragged my feet for a few months already, but I finally have website and media hosting and have recorded my first, well sort of first, episode.

Its a new RSS feed but I've updated it in iTunes and Google play so if you subscribed before using a podcast catcher you should be getting the new feed soon.

Just in case its not working yet, link here to the website. Its still super raw and bare bones, will be a work in progress for a while, but its out there.

Hope you guys enjoy, any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-24-2018, 02:09 AM   #1853
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Cushlash,

It sounds like your are still trying to work through some of life's most important issues. I am certain you will get there. Enjoy the journey getting there.
Thank you sir, doing my best to enjoy the journey even if I get very impatient sometimes.
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Old 05-24-2018, 01:50 PM   #1854
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Good post box. People don't understand or care to admit how easy/ simple NLHE is in 2018. Especially with stacks <150bb with standard open sizes of 6-10bb. You'd have to run Neeme hot in order to average 10bb/hr.

I encouraged Cush to play PLO so I kinda feel bad about his recent results. Variance in live PLO can be crushing. You sort of have to pray to run hot/not bad because you can theoretically never realize your EV lifetime. From a professional pov / theoretical a pro should have a big enough bankroll to not care about long break even or 50bi downers. But ffs I don't think any pro is rolled for that at 2/5+ plo.

I know I'm a broken record but DUDE CUSH LEARN MIXED GAMES. You have an amazing opportunity to capitalize on. Generally the more split pot and non community card games there are, the bigger your edge is and the smaller your BR needs to be compared to PLO. If I was a pro in Vegas that's where I'd be every single day. I know the prospect of learning new games can be daunting but the upside is incredible.

That said, every good portfolio has some high risk/high reward investments so occasionally short stacking or playing plo could be good. Personally, I'm a huge nit so I'd rather take that money and fire off on 5-10 Sunday gtds than I would short stacking live plo.

It would probably be something like 75% 20/40 30/60 mixed, 10% 2/5 5/10 NL, 10% online gtds and 5% plo

Last edited by upswinging; 05-24-2018 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 05-24-2018, 04:24 PM   #1855
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by upswinging View Post
Good post box. People don't understand or care to admit how easy/ simple NLHE is in 2018. Especially with stacks <150bb with standard open sizes of 6-10bb. You'd have to run Neeme hot in order to average 10bb/hr.

I encouraged Cush to play PLO so I kinda feel bad about his recent results. Variance in live PLO can be crushing. You sort of have to pray to run hot/not bad because you can theoretically never realize your EV lifetime. From a professional pov / theoretical a pro should have a big enough bankroll to not care about long break even or 50bi downers. But ffs I don't think any pro is rolled for that at 2/5+ plo.

I know I'm a broken record but DUDE CUSH LEARN MIXED GAMES. You have an amazing opportunity to capitalize on. Generally the more split pot and non community card games there are, the bigger your edge is and the smaller your BR needs to be compared to PLO. If I was a pro in Vegas that's where I'd be every single day. I know the prospect of learning new games can be daunting but the upside is incredible.

That said, every good portfolio has some high risk/high reward investments so occasionally short stacking or playing plo could be good. Personally, I'm a huge nit so I'd rather take that money and fire off on 5-10 Sunday gtds than I would short stacking live plo.

It would probably be something like 75% 20/40 30/60 mixed, 10% 2/5 5/10 NL, 10% online gtds and 5% plo
Except I'm pretty sure these games aren't running every day or, in the alternative, there are a very small number of every day mixed games in Vegas during non-WSOP. I'm as much for the mixed games revolution as anyone but right now there aren't many local poker economies where you can rely on exclusively or mostly mixed games for a living.
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:00 PM   #1856
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

There's a 20/40 and or both a 40/80 going 4+ days a week, if not every day at bellagio. Mixed games run every single day during LAPC and during the WSOP, there's also other big tournaments where mixed games run such as the Arizona championship.

To say mixed games can't be 75%+ of your yearly volume on the west coast is just laughable.
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:11 PM   #1857
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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There's a 20/40 and or both a 40/80 going 4+ days a week, if not every day at bellagio. Mixed games run every single day during LAPC and during the WSOP, there's also other big tournaments where mixed games run such as the Arizona championship.

To say mixed games can't be 75%+ of your yearly volume on the west coast is just laughable.
Yeah, even if what you say is true, which it could well be, none of that contradicts anything I wrote. My main point was that your advice doesn't apply to most poker players and might not even apply to players living in Vegas. I am still skeptical that the mixed economy in Vegas is strong enough there to support many pros who want to grind, say, 1300+ hours/year of exclusively mixed games. I hope that I am wrong, though. Do you actually live in Vegas?
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:56 PM   #1858
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Yeah, even if what you say is true, which it could well be, none of that contradicts anything I wrote. My main point was that your advice doesn't apply to most poker players and might not even apply to players living in Vegas. I am still skeptical that the mixed economy in Vegas is strong enough there to support many pros who want to grind, say, 1300+ hours/year of exclusively mixed games. I hope that I am wrong, though. Do you actually live in Vegas?
Well, the majority of "pros" are just lazy degens who have managed to become decent at a single game through memorizing and repeating whatever they've seen in a training video. idgaf about those kinds of people, my posts were not directed towards them. You wouldn't have any problem picking up all the games quickly if you truly enjoyed the technical/ problem solving strat side of poker. I just figured Cush was one of those people and would benefit from my posts.

The mixed game economy is small but very well protected. In order to win you have to be smart and self disciplined (so take out 95% of all "pros"), along with being good at all of the games. due to the small number of hands, the limit structure, variance, and the complexity of the games it's somewhat difficult for players know 1. How good/bad they are at the games and 2. How good/bad other players are.

Additionally, the games are so "new" and nuanced that you will see regs make the same bad mistakes for YEARS before they plug them (if they plug them at all lol).

----

I know a couple of mix game guys that grind a mind boggling 500-700 hours from lapc through the wsop and basically fart around/ only play in the very best games/times for the rest of the year. It's also about working smarter, not harder. Those 500-700 hours are absolutely incredible games. In NL terms try imagining yourself in a NL game with a whale blind raising $50-$100 every single hand for 500+ hours.

That said, I still believe someone could make a good living playing mix outside of the lapc and wsop. Definitely better than the lifestyles most NL pros live that's for sure.
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:04 PM   #1859
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Boxcheck is spot on IMO. I find my style or thoughts on the game similar to his. I've fared ok over the years in my trips to Vegas. Mostly 2/5 but last winter stuck pretty much with 5/10. Even took a 10/20 shot that was a 10/20/40 game. Then again I'm no pro or don't do it for a living. I respect the guys who have done it for a living and made $$$ consistently.

Box I'd imagine Cush does at least some/a lot of what you say except he's on year "X" and as with any job tough doing same thing over and over without some boredom creeping in. I've enjoyed reading his journey.

I will say I think GTO is overrated in a live poker setting. At least at 1/2 2/5 and even most 5/10 games I've played.
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Old 05-27-2018, 02:29 AM   #1860
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

gto isn't overrated, it's just not the full picture. You learn gto to have a baseline strategy and then from there you exploit where it makes sense.
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Old 05-27-2018, 02:52 PM   #1861
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

gto is not gto in live poker 1-2 2-5 because ppl do that much random stuff with ATC, gto is burning money
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Old 05-28-2018, 01:17 AM   #1862
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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gto isn't overrated, it's just not the full picture. You learn gto to have a baseline strategy and then from there you exploit where it makes sense.
I'd actually agree with this in a sense. Although Im far from a pro and understand how to play perfect Gto. But yes understanding GTO is important especially against players who you think are playing with that in mind. It's why i overbet shove more than the norm while playing with "regs".

Im a huge fan of Doug Polk but in live terms think he a little off base.
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Old 05-28-2018, 02:47 AM   #1863
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

even being slightly more balanced/less exploitable in pro vs pro/reg pots is worth it alone. Nobody is saying everything you learn will be applicable in the games you play. Learning gto is also a great way to map out your own ranges, and make extremely exploitable plays with the right hands.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:47 AM   #1864
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by cushlash View Post
Thanks for all the replies, I have read everything even though I haven't responded in detail. No worries on any derails, the whole thread is one big derail.

I'm particularly happy to hear some people mention that they have gotten some value out of this thread and the few podcast episodes I did.

My main project that I wanted to spend more time on when I quit my job is that very podcast. I dragged my feet for a few months already, but I finally have website and media hosting and have recorded my first, well sort of first, episode.

Its a new RSS feed but I've updated it in iTunes and Google play so if you subscribed before using a podcast catcher you should be getting the new feed soon.

Just in case its not working yet, link here to the website. Its still super raw and bare bones, will be a work in progress for a while, but its out there.

Hope you guys enjoy, any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.
Hi, cush.

I just listened to your "new" podcast. I thought it was really well done. You have a good voice and a good presentation/personality on it. I will be listening to your earlier podcasts, as well.

Stay with it. If you enjoy doing this, keep at it, it will be your new career. Play poker on the side, and talk to us about it.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:32 AM   #1865
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Hi, cush.

I just listened to your "new" podcast. I thought it was really well done. You have a good voice and a good presentation/personality on it. I will be listening to your earlier podcasts, as well.

Stay with it. If you enjoy doing this, keep at it, it will be your new career. Play poker on the side, and talk to us about it.
+1.

Cush, i hope you are aware that you definetely have a really good radio/podcast voice- wich stands out and makes it very comfortable+interesting listening to you.

I hope you keep doing podcasts, related to both poker/life/balance or whatever topics you feel passionate about at the given time. Thats what i as a listener mostly want to hear, stuff you are passionate about cause it shines through.
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Old 06-01-2018, 04:06 PM   #1866
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Quote:
Originally Posted by upswinging View Post
Good post box. People don't understand or care to admit how easy/ simple NLHE is in 2018. Especially with stacks <150bb with standard open sizes of 6-10bb. You'd have to run Neeme hot in order to average 10bb/hr.

I encouraged Cush to play PLO so I kinda feel bad about his recent results. Variance in live PLO can be crushing. You sort of have to pray to run hot/not bad because you can theoretically never realize your EV lifetime. From a professional pov / theoretical a pro should have a big enough bankroll to not care about long break even or 50bi downers. But ffs I don't think any pro is rolled for that at 2/5+ plo.

I know I'm a broken record but DUDE CUSH LEARN MIXED GAMES. You have an amazing opportunity to capitalize on. Generally the more split pot and non community card games there are, the bigger your edge is and the smaller your BR needs to be compared to PLO. If I was a pro in Vegas that's where I'd be every single day. I know the prospect of learning new games can be daunting but the upside is incredible.

That said, every good portfolio has some high risk/high reward investments so occasionally short stacking or playing plo could be good. Personally, I'm a huge nit so I'd rather take that money and fire off on 5-10 Sunday gtds than I would short stacking live plo.

It would probably be something like 75% 20/40 30/60 mixed, 10% 2/5 5/10 NL, 10% online gtds and 5% plo
I'm addressing this a bit in the next podcast episode, but in short, I do think learning mixed games would be valuable, but after this downswing and some life expenses coming up, I kind of have to build a bit before I'm in a spot where I can afford to learn new games that I will likely not be +EV in at the start.

Also do not feel bad or responsible for my results after encouraging me to play PLO haha. Live PLO is actually the only game I'm in the black in this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e_holle View Post
Hi, cush.

I just listened to your "new" podcast. I thought it was really well done. You have a good voice and a good presentation/personality on it. I will be listening to your earlier podcasts, as well.

Stay with it. If you enjoy doing this, keep at it, it will be your new career. Play poker on the side, and talk to us about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post
+1.

Cush, i hope you are aware that you definetely have a really good radio/podcast voice- wich stands out and makes it very comfortable+interesting listening to you.

I hope you keep doing podcasts, related to both poker/life/balance or whatever topics you feel passionate about at the given time. Thats what i as a listener mostly want to hear, stuff you are passionate about cause it shines through.
Thanks both of you, I really appreciate that encouragement. I am enjoying doing the podcasts, I really don't know why I stopped before. Like posting in this thread, I like doing them even if it never ends up making money, but I would not be opposed if it ends up being my new career.
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Old 06-01-2018, 05:36 PM   #1867
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

New podcast episode: Responding to Feedback and Thoughts on Car Ownership
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Old 06-02-2018, 07:30 AM   #1868
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

If you ever need to pronounce my screen name for your podcast , it rhymes with mole.
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:59 PM   #1869
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I was half joking with the Neeme comments. He's put his time in, he plays decent, and it appears he game selects well. Also seems like a good guy that can take a needle in stride. I would definitely buy him a beer if I saw him.

Vegas has a lot of tourists and wide game selection at the 2/5 level. But man idk, winning at 30bb/100 plus the rake seems awful steep/ improbable for 9 handed NL. IMO 15-20bb/100 has to be the absolute cap for anyone putting in steady hours. Variance is just so sick in live poker it's hard to stay objective.

to be clear again I don't play full time and certainly don't play enough in Vegas to have a real grasp of the player. It just from what I've seen/ experienced playing typical 2/5 lineups that makes me skeptical of the mystic 30bb/100 winrate. over my most recent hours I've been 4b bluffed pre with a blocker, and I've also been hero called twice in huge pots- by blockers. With the amount of vegas pros/ grinders I imagine you see the same plays?
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Old 06-03-2018, 02:08 PM   #1870
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by upswinging View Post
I was half joking with the Neeme comments. He's put his time in, he plays decent, and it appears he game selects well. Also seems like a good guy that can take a needle in stride. I would definitely buy him a beer if I saw him.

Vegas has a lot of tourists and wide game selection at the 2/5 level. But man idk, winning at 30bb/100 plus the rake seems awful steep/ improbable for 9 handed NL. IMO 15-20bb/100 has to be the absolute cap for anyone putting in steady hours. Variance is just so sick in live poker it's hard to stay objective.

to be clear again I don't play full time and certainly don't play enough in Vegas to have a real grasp of the player. It just from what I've seen/ experienced playing typical 2/5 lineups that makes me skeptical of the mystic 30bb/100 winrate. over my most recent hours I've been 4b bluffed pre with a blocker, and I've also been hero called twice in huge pots- by blockers. With the amount of vegas pros/ grinders I imagine you see the same plays?
+1
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:14 PM   #1871
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by upswinging View Post
I was half joking with the Neeme comments. He's put his time in, he plays decent, and it appears he game selects well. Also seems like a good guy that can take a needle in stride. I would definitely buy him a beer if I saw him.

Vegas has a lot of tourists and wide game selection at the 2/5 level. But man idk, winning at 30bb/100 plus the rake seems awful steep/ improbable for 9 handed NL. IMO 15-20bb/100 has to be the absolute cap for anyone putting in steady hours. Variance is just so sick in live poker it's hard to stay objective.

to be clear again I don't play full time and certainly don't play enough in Vegas to have a real grasp of the player. It just from what I've seen/ experienced playing typical 2/5 lineups that makes me skeptical of the mystic 30bb/100 winrate. over my most recent hours I've been 4b bluffed pre with a blocker, and I've also been hero called twice in huge pots- by blockers. With the amount of vegas pros/ grinders I imagine you see the same plays?
I see these plays for sure, but I also see people doing stuff that is completely asanine, especially now during WSOP.
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:15 PM   #1872
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

New Episode: The Downswing Continues and My Experience with Being Recruited for a MLM Scheme
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Old 06-07-2018, 01:41 AM   #1873
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Good podcast man! Sorry to hear you are having a rough year in poker, hope you turn it around and are able to capitalize on the great games this summer.

MLMs are fascinating, I remember watching some vids about Herbalife and how it operates and expands with underground health clubs in Mexico. It's very interesting that most of these MLMs aren't straight up ponzi schemes because they do have actual products that are being sold. But the recruitment structure is a classic pyramid scheme where only the very top make any kind of living and the bottom is made up of losers.

The sociology behind these fascinate me though I never serioisly considered joining because I don't particularly like selling. The cult like rallies, how they spread like a virus and persuasive tactics used.

It's funny because there are some parallels between them and the way poker is marketed to the masses. Magazine covers touting the latest tourney winners, selling the dream of going pro when the hard numbers show the vast majority lose money.
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Old 06-07-2018, 12:21 PM   #1874
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

lol at them ordering water...u nailed that. I been pitched several "opportunities". My feeling is they are desperate and want to believe that its a way to financial freedom - they honestly think they are helping you. Unsure about the "mentors" though. Like you alluded to for them to get where they are they have had to see untold numbers fail
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Old 06-07-2018, 12:34 PM   #1875
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by squid face View Post
lol at them ordering water...u nailed that. I been pitched several "opportunities". My feeling is they are desperate and want to believe that its a way to financial freedom - they honestly think they are helping you. Unsure about the "mentors" though. Like you alluded to for them to get where they are they have had to see untold numbers fail
I def think some of them are just desperate and blind to the reality, but it always amazes me how seemingly smart people can get sucked into these things. I had a friend not even that long ago who started to get sucked into one of these things, don't remember which one but it was a bunch of natural energy shot things and stuff like that. He hosted one of those get togethers where you harass all your friends to come and support you and hopefully buy **** and the mentor person speaks to your group and stuff. I felt a little bad not attending but I refuse to go to something like that to "support" someone when in reality the only way they will make any money is if they can suck enough people into the abyss below them. He actually gave up on the whole thing pretty fast which is good but I can see how people get stuck chasing the carrot after they've been tricked into investing hundreds of dollars into it. These mlm's seem like they cause so much tension though because 95% of it is bugging all your friends and everyone you know to join under you which is super annoying lol.

Sorry to hear about the downswing cush, hope it turns around asap. Are you still looking to get back out of poker or was this mlm experience pre leaving poker?
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