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Old 01-08-2017, 11:16 PM   #1676
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Ask and ye shall receive. Just got back to town after my vacation and wanted to record an episode even though I haven't played in a while and thus didn't have much to talk about. Thanks for the suggestion! Link


I just listened to the podcast and to your question, I try to simplify all aspects of my life so I can focus more time and energy on the meaningful aspects. Weeding out negative people and habits and trying to fill that space with more productive endeavors (small edges) Introspection and humility are also something that I've found that come with age. I'm 43.


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Old 01-09-2017, 09:52 PM   #1677
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Hey man, yea I definitely see where you're coming from, poker can be a dead end job if there's no diversification. A few thoughts on your comments regarding fear: I took a fairly big risk moving out to Vegas with no job, no friends or family, and no tangible reason to believe I could make it as a pro poker player. Thus I traditionally haven't thought of myself as having much fear of failure. However, as it relates to leaving poker, I find myself much less apt to take risks that are probably smaller than the ones I've already taken, which has led me to ask myself in the more recent past whether fear of failure or self-doubt is playing a factor.

Its something I've wrestled with mentally before and try my best to keep out of my decision making process. I have my reasons for still playing poker full-time, which I have discussed in here plenty. I believe they are sound despite knowing that poker isn't my end game.

I'm glad to hear you've found something better since getting out of poker. I think nearly everyone sees similar life improvements when they get out in terms of money/friends/stability as you talk about. Most low stakes grinders would be much better off if they followed suit.

If you don't mind me asking, what are you up to now? I'm always interested to hear what people do post-poker and whether they prefer it to the grind, which it seems you do.

I flipped a couple/few houses. Used my own money and hired my own crew, fixed up and sold them. However its nothing like the late-night TV info commercials advertised where you buy one for $160k, spend $30k, 3 weeks of your time, and them shazzamm, sell it for $240k making a handsome $50k profit margin, rinse & repeat. Doesn't work that way in the real world. Its a LOT of stress, and a LOT of hard work, and a LOT of "trying" to make all of the stars align perfectly to make the deal work.
If you ever think you have a lot of money try getting into the real estate investment business. Reality will strike quickly that the competition is fierce! There's always someone with more money, more marketing connections, better finance deals, willing to take more risk -work for smaller margins, and so on....

Now I'm buying & selling cars. Flipping cars requires much less capital than houses and much less risk. Also smaller margins and lower dollar values, so you have to stay active. I'm operating a small car dealership, spend about 80% of my time sitting at my desk on the computer/phone, and 20% of the time actually moving cars around from the seller to mechanic shop, detail shop, actual face-to-face w/ customers making the sale transaction. Its a neat gig and keeps my mind busy, its all numbers and simple...buy a car for a wholesale price and sell it for a retail price, easy and simple numbers game.
Too add a little residual income to the business I carry quite a few notes and offer personal financing. This is where the *real* money is. I can't claim this was my idea, another poker player who I got to know sitting together at a final table in LA about 10 years ago is doing this and told me about it. He took several hundred thousand from that tournament score and bought a bunch of cars, offered financing and made a BUNCH of money. He lives in North Carolina and no direct competition, he told me what he was doing and I copied his tried & true business plan.
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:50 PM   #1678
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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I just listened to the podcast and to your question, I try to simplify all aspects of my life so I can focus more time and energy on the meaningful aspects. Weeding out negative people and habits and trying to fill that space with more productive endeavors (small edges) Introspection and humility are also something that I've found that come with age. I'm 43.
Awesome, thanks for your response. We seem to have a similar outlook in general. I definitely need to be better at recognizing and weeding out negative people/habits like you mention. Simplifying life so you can focus on the important stuff makes a lot of sense to me. Its great to hear the perspective of someone a little older than me so I appreciate you posting.

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I flipped a couple/few houses. Used my own money and hired my own crew, fixed up and sold them. However its nothing like the late-night TV info commercials advertised where you buy one for $160k, spend $30k, 3 weeks of your time, and them shazzamm, sell it for $240k making a handsome $50k profit margin, rinse & repeat. Doesn't work that way in the real world. Its a LOT of stress, and a LOT of hard work, and a LOT of "trying" to make all of the stars align perfectly to make the deal work.
If you ever think you have a lot of money try getting into the real estate investment business. Reality will strike quickly that the competition is fierce! There's always someone with more money, more marketing connections, better finance deals, willing to take more risk -work for smaller margins, and so on....

Now I'm buying & selling cars. Flipping cars requires much less capital than houses and much less risk. Also smaller margins and lower dollar values, so you have to stay active. I'm operating a small car dealership, spend about 80% of my time sitting at my desk on the computer/phone, and 20% of the time actually moving cars around from the seller to mechanic shop, detail shop, actual face-to-face w/ customers making the sale transaction. Its a neat gig and keeps my mind busy, its all numbers and simple...buy a car for a wholesale price and sell it for a retail price, easy and simple numbers game.
Too add a little residual income to the business I carry quite a few notes and offer personal financing. This is where the *real* money is. I can't claim this was my idea, another poker player who I got to know sitting together at a final table in LA about 10 years ago is doing this and told me about it. He took several hundred thousand from that tournament score and bought a bunch of cars, offered financing and made a BUNCH of money. He lives in North Carolina and no direct competition, he told me what he was doing and I copied his tried & true business plan.
Nice man that sounds like a good gig. Similar to poker but different in some good ways. Glad to hear you're doing well.
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:47 PM   #1679
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

You should add some music to your opening and exit of the podcast- keep them coming, they're good.

Us fans always want to hear as many results as you'll share, even tho they don't matter!


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Old 01-10-2017, 08:51 PM   #1680
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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You should add some music to your opening and exit of the podcast- keep them coming, they're good.
This is excellent advice.
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Old 01-16-2017, 12:45 AM   #1681
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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You should add some music to your opening and exit of the podcast- keep them coming, they're good.

Us fans always want to hear as many results as you'll share, even tho they don't matter!
Thanks for the feedback! Don't have it for this episode but will work on it.

With that, new episode here. Let me know what you guys think or if you have questions.
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Old 01-26-2017, 11:32 PM   #1682
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I have been catching up on your podcasts. I am liking them so far !!
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:37 PM   #1683
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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I have been catching up on your podcasts. I am liking them so far !!
Thanks!

Apologies to all for the hiatus. New episode up now, link.
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:30 PM   #1684
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I am liking your podcasts.
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:12 PM   #1685
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

New episode is up now, link here.
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:04 PM   #1686
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Great podcast it really resonated with me. I've been thinking a lot about focusing more time and energy on other vocations too. You talked about distributing resumes, have you given any thought to starting your own business/company?
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Old 02-24-2017, 04:13 PM   #1687
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Great podcast it really resonated with me. I've been thinking a lot about focusing more time and energy on other vocations too. You talked about distributing resumes, have you given any thought to starting your own business/company?
Thanks man glad you liked it.

Yea for sure, that is basically my eventual goal, with the ultimate setup being where I no longer have to run it myself and just spend a minimal amount of time managing it. (Before people start flaming, yes I understand starting a business is incredibly hard work and I understand I'd have to put in long hours for a undefined number of years in the beginning.)

That being said, I just don't have any ideas that I feel like I have the skills or passion to execute properly. In my opinion ideas don't matter as much as execution, so if I am lacking in either necessary skills or passion for the project itself (as in motivation for reasons other than financial gain) then I don't see it working out well even if the idea is good.

Thus, I think using employment at a company or various companies (preferably smaller ones) is a good stepping stone. I can learn about what it takes to run a business and use that to eventually start my own thing with whatever ideas I am interested in.
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Old 03-02-2017, 02:50 PM   #1688
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

New episode link. No poker content. I talk about my experience with fitness and weight loss. Have been wanting to share something of that nature for a while but didn't know where to put it, finally just said **** it and put it up with the podcast.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:37 PM   #1689
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Great podcast. How big is your resume gap? And do you have any degrees and prior work experience? It's sort of obvious but the longer the gap, the less education and work experience you have, the less you can be picky about jobs.

If you have a really good story and reason why you have the gap (poker isn't it), like you traveled all over the world, or you lived abroad... or even went backpacking/ travelling around the US etc.. then employers will think it's sweet cuz well it is and they wish they had to balls to do something so cool when they were young. But if you don't have that, or any cool long term experiences you did during that employment gap... it sort of looks like an unmotivated weirdo/ slacker regardless if you are or not. As you mentioned in your podcast... your image/ immediate first impressions are way more important than reality during the opening stages.

You could strike gold if a business owner takes a leap of faith. A surefire way imo is get a ****ty job as a grunt at some corporation/ chain store that promotes quickly and then pivot with that into getting yourself a different job. Probably take less than 2 years if you have a degree.

It also depends on how old you are. I mean a guy in his early 30's with no degree or work experience, huge resume gap etc has major obstacles to overcome/ is basically screwed imo whereas a guy in is early-mid twenties isn't that bad off.
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Old 03-03-2017, 08:17 PM   #1690
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Great podcast. How big is your resume gap? And do you have any degrees and prior work experience? It's sort of obvious but the longer the gap, the less education and work experience you have, the less you can be picky about jobs.

If you have a really good story and reason why you have the gap (poker isn't it), like you traveled all over the world, or you lived abroad... or even went backpacking/ travelling around the US etc.. then employers will think it's sweet cuz well it is and they wish they had to balls to do something so cool when they were young. But if you don't have that, or any cool long term experiences you did during that employment gap... it sort of looks like an unmotivated weirdo/ slacker regardless if you are or not. As you mentioned in your podcast... your image/ immediate first impressions are way more important than reality during the opening stages.

You could strike gold if a business owner takes a leap of faith. A surefire way imo is get a ****ty job as a grunt at some corporation/ chain store that promotes quickly and then pivot with that into getting yourself a different job. Probably take less than 2 years if you have a degree.

It also depends on how old you are. I mean a guy in his early 30's with no degree or work experience, huge resume gap etc has major obstacles to overcome/ is basically screwed imo whereas a guy in is early-mid twenties isn't that bad off.
Thanks man. Yea my resume gap is about 5 years. I'm 25 so shouldn't be in too bad of shape. I have a Finance degree but no relevant work experience. I have done a few things here and there while I've been doing poker but no formal jobs. I definitely realize that I come off as an unmotivated slacker, and though I was the very antithesis of that in high school/college and the first few years in Vegas, I have been behaving exactly like this the last couple years. So while I don't see myself as lazy, I have certainly acted like it lately. There are many reasons for this, most of them my fault, and there's no reason I couldn't get myself back in gear.

While I sometimes wish some small business would take a chance on me, since I know I could do whatever I set my mind to, due to lack of response to my current efforts, I am becoming increasingly confident that your suggested plan of getting a ****ty grunt job and pivoting from there is the way to go. I just have to take that leap and so far have not been able to.

Thanks for your response, pretty on point.
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Old 03-03-2017, 11:40 PM   #1691
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Thanks man. Yea my resume gap is about 5 years. I'm 25 so shouldn't be in too bad of shape. I have a Finance degree but no relevant work experience. I have done a few things here and there while I've been doing poker but no formal jobs. I definitely realize that I come off as an unmotivated slacker, and though I was the very antithesis of that in high school/college and the first few years in Vegas, I have been behaving exactly like this the last couple years. So while I don't see myself as lazy, I have certainly acted like it lately. There are many reasons for this, most of them my fault, and there's no reason I couldn't get myself back in gear.

While I sometimes wish some small business would take a chance on me, since I know I could do whatever I set my mind to, due to lack of response to my current efforts, I am becoming increasingly confident that your suggested plan of getting a ****ty grunt job and pivoting from there is the way to go. I just have to take that leap and so far have not been able to.

Thanks for your response, pretty on point.
You're golden then. If you bust ass now I doubt you'll have to play much catch up at all compared to most of your peers. They're going to be in a world of hurt when they finally decide/want to get out.

You touched on this in your podcast. The idea of completely dropping poker until you find employment which I think is a really good idea. Like if you're too tired after a session or even think for a second that worst case scenario you can fall back on poker- and that idea ****s with your motivation.. then yeah I would totally drop it until you find a job. While your short term EV of grinding at the tables may look lucrative.. the EV of finding a job and building your resume is infinitely more EV.

I said look at a very low level corporate job first. I think it could really be any position. The angle you look for there is 1. Can you be promoted quickly and 2. Does that company prefer hiring/ promoting within the company over bringing outside people in. It's way way easier to get a new job when you're already employed. So ya just do that.

The absolute worst case scenario I can predict is you get some gov/military brain dead job being somebodies *****... but collect pay checks doing no work whatsoever but I doubt you'll get to that point. You sound really motivated in your podcast.

Looking forward to your next update gl.
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Old 03-04-2017, 01:47 PM   #1692
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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You're golden then. If you bust ass now I doubt you'll have to play much catch up at all compared to most of your peers. They're going to be in a world of hurt when they finally decide/want to get out.

You touched on this in your podcast. The idea of completely dropping poker until you find employment which I think is a really good idea. Like if you're too tired after a session or even think for a second that worst case scenario you can fall back on poker- and that idea ****s with your motivation.. then yeah I would totally drop it until you find a job. While your short term EV of grinding at the tables may look lucrative.. the EV of finding a job and building your resume is infinitely more EV.

I said look at a very low level corporate job first. I think it could really be any position. The angle you look for there is 1. Can you be promoted quickly and 2. Does that company prefer hiring/ promoting within the company over bringing outside people in. It's way way easier to get a new job when you're already employed. So ya just do that.

The absolute worst case scenario I can predict is you get some gov/military brain dead job being somebodies *****... but collect pay checks doing no work whatsoever but I doubt you'll get to that point. You sound really motivated in your podcast.

Looking forward to your next update gl.
I totally agree regarding dropping poker until I find something. I've been in a good rhythm lately with working on other stuff and playing a bit, so as long as I can sustain that then its nice to have a few bucks coming in. I've been able to find motivation to do both lately, but if I start falling back into old habits I will have to cut it. The thought of "I can always fall back on poker" is the harder part of the equation for me. Sometimes I get annoyed with looking at and filling out applications that I'm like **** this poker is better. Avoiding giving in to that thought is tough but will benefit me in the long run if I can manage it.

Thanks for the advice about making sure I can be promoted quickly and that the company likes to hire from within. I'll definitely keep that in mind when trying to figure out which places are dead ends and which aren't.
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:54 PM   #1693
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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You're golden then. If you bust ass now I doubt you'll have to play much catch up at all compared to most of your peers. They're going to be in a world of hurt when they finally decide/want to get out.

You touched on this in your podcast. The idea of completely dropping poker until you find employment which I think is a really good idea. Like if you're too tired after a session or even think for a second that worst case scenario you can fall back on poker- and that idea ****s with your motivation.. then yeah I would totally drop it until you find a job. While your short term EV of grinding at the tables may look lucrative.. the EV of finding a job and building your resume is infinitely more EV.

I said look at a very low level corporate job first. I think it could really be any position. The angle you look for there is 1. Can you be promoted quickly and 2. Does that company prefer hiring/ promoting within the company over bringing outside people in. It's way way easier to get a new job when you're already employed. So ya just do that.

The absolute worst case scenario I can predict is you get some gov/military brain dead job being somebodies *****... but collect pay checks doing no work whatsoever but I doubt you'll get to that point. You sound really motivated in your podcast.

Looking forward to your next update gl.
The essence of this is good advice. Starting to put together a resumé and work history now makes good sense. When you are young it feels like you have all of the time in the world. The next thing you know, you're in your 30s and many of the job option flexibilities that you had 10 years ago are simply not available for someone in their 30s. By pursuing a two-pronged strategy (poker and a job) you create an array of options for yourself. Who knows, you may actually fall into something that leads to something that turns out to be a lot of fun and pays well to boot.
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:00 PM   #1694
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Just trying to help. I think you're the only level headed person that has a PG&C. It takes a lot to be honest and fill in your followers with the truth. Most PG&C i've read are cash "pros" punting on MTTs lol, or getting into stables/staking/ live training/ or get into book keeping to stay afloat etc... and are only honest with the good news and sugar coat everything else.

You're smart enough to realize and act upon the truth that there's really no happy ending or pot of endless gold at the end of the rainbow for professional poker players. Respect.
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:15 PM   #1695
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Fan of the thread and podcast.

With your finance degree and poker experience, I think you could look into working for a day/swing trading shop. I think there are a few firms in LV that you could reach out to.

While it may not be the ideal job, it will be a job that won't look down on your poker experience and it's one where could leverage your unique skillset.

After a couple years of doing that, you could apply for a more traditional job and/or grad school. The poker playing stigma should be mostly washed off by then.
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Old 03-07-2017, 06:00 PM   #1696
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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The essence of this is good advice. Starting to put together a resumé and work history now makes good sense. When you are young it feels like you have all of the time in the world. The next thing you know, you're in your 30s and many of the job option flexibilities that you had 10 years ago are simply not available for someone in their 30s. By pursuing a two-pronged strategy (poker and a job) you create an array of options for yourself. Who knows, you may actually fall into something that leads to something that turns out to be a lot of fun and pays well to boot.
Exactly. I've been talking about transitioning out for a couple years now. I don't want that to turn into a couple decades and all of a sudden I don't have options. As you say, pursuing other options may lead to something awesome that I wouldn't have found otherwise.

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Just trying to help. I think you're the only level headed person that has a PG&C. It takes a lot to be honest and fill in your followers with the truth. Most PG&C i've read are cash "pros" punting on MTTs lol, or getting into stables/staking/ live training/ or get into book keeping to stay afloat etc... and are only honest with the good news and sugar coat everything else.

You're smart enough to realize and act upon the truth that there's really no happy ending or pot of endless gold at the end of the rainbow for professional poker players. Respect.
Thanks man, that means a lot to hear. I try to be as authentic as possible on here and not romanticize the life of being a professional poker player so I'm glad I'm having that effect.

And thanks for your help, I really do appreciate it. Your last few posts have been gold for my current situation, so thank you.

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Fan of the thread and podcast.

With your finance degree and poker experience, I think you could look into working for a day/swing trading shop. I think there are a few firms in LV that you could reach out to.

While it may not be the ideal job, it will be a job that won't look down on your poker experience and it's one where could leverage your unique skillset.

After a couple years of doing that, you could apply for a more traditional job and/or grad school. The poker playing stigma should be mostly washed off by then.
Thanks, glad you like it.

I have applied for a few things in the trading realm, though not in LV. Actually had an interview with a hedge fund last year but didn't get through.

For the reasons you mention it does seem like a good option. The problem I've found is that most of the prop firms I've come across here seem a bit scammy and I don't know how to separate the real from the fake in that area. That's definitely a route I'm open to, I'd just need to look into it a bit more to see which firms are legit.
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:39 PM   #1697
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Also new episode up now, back to the usual topics. link
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:13 PM   #1698
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I've been enjoying the podcast.

You mentioned working for free in an earlier ep -- that's how I transitioned into my part-time job that I do w/ poker on the side now. That ability to work for free is a big competitive advantage that us poker players have over other prospective applicants. Makes sense that you might want to capitalize on it, but make sure you're getting something of value (experience, potential paid job) back.
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:06 PM   #1699
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Offering to work for free reeks of desperation. Just apply for intern jobs.

Do you have a pretty good idea of what you want to do or are you just sort of shopping around? One thing that helped me out big time was sitting down everyday and "meditating". I hate that word. Basically just being extremely honest with yourself about who you are, what you you like and don't like, what you want to do with your life, and everything else from politics to spirituality etc. It's not for anyone else to know but you. No responses that you would use to impress the boss or get laid, or things a person might say to fit in or whatever. Just for you and nobody else.

They say your body goes through puberty in your teens, your mind goes through puberty in your twenties and I firmly believe that. It sounds so stupid and simple but once you do that you get to cut out a lot of **** you would have normally put your time into, going through the motions (and winding up disappointed).


I'm pretty sure you're going to find that the the deep core reasons why you enjoyed being a pro can also be found in many many other occupations that probably are more stable and pay more, which you can filter down even further based and your likes/ dislikes/ personality/ life outlook etc. That helped me big time in finding a career I like, am good at, and i'm happy doing, and saved me potentially a ton of time/ trial and error trying to blinding find it.
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Old 03-10-2017, 01:45 AM   #1700
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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I've been enjoying the podcast.

You mentioned working for free in an earlier ep -- that's how I transitioned into my part-time job that I do w/ poker on the side now. That ability to work for free is a big competitive advantage that us poker players have over other prospective applicants. Makes sense that you might want to capitalize on it, but make sure you're getting something of value (experience, potential paid job) back.
Yea I agree, as long as I don't get taken advantage of it can be a good deal. Glad you were able to find something that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by upswinging View Post
Offering to work for free reeks of desperation. Just apply for intern jobs.

Do you have a pretty good idea of what you want to do or are you just sort of shopping around? One thing that helped me out big time was sitting down everyday and "meditating". I hate that word. Basically just being extremely honest with yourself about who you are, what you you like and don't like, what you want to do with your life, and everything else from politics to spirituality etc. It's not for anyone else to know but you. No responses that you would use to impress the boss or get laid, or things a person might say to fit in or whatever. Just for you and nobody else.

They say your body goes through puberty in your teens, your mind goes through puberty in your twenties and I firmly believe that. It sounds so stupid and simple but once you do that you get to cut out a lot of **** you would have normally put your time into, going through the motions (and winding up disappointed).


I'm pretty sure you're going to find that the the deep core reasons why you enjoyed being a pro can also be found in many many other occupations that probably are more stable and pay more, which you can filter down even further based and your likes/ dislikes/ personality/ life outlook etc. That helped me big time in finding a career I like, am good at, and i'm happy doing, and saved me potentially a ton of time/ trial and error trying to blinding find it.
I think it can work in the right circumstances. Offering to work for free indefinitely is definitely not a good idea. However, offering to work on a certain project for a specified period of time as a way to get a foot in the door can be beneficial. That way it doesn't come off as desperate. Its not like "hey someone give me a job I'll work for free!". Its "I really like what you're doing here, I'll work on X project until X date and if you like what I do we can discuss something paid, if not no hard feelings from my end".

To your other point, I totally agree. I have spent a lot of time and tried a few different tactics, including some writing exercises and a few variations of meditation to get those core reasons you mention. I'm getting much better/closer but have not 100% figured it out. I'm still at the stage of trying various things and seeing what I like. So to answer your question, I'm shopping around, but I do have a list of a few things I think I like/dislike guiding me. And I tend to be very self-reflective, probably too much, so as long as I'm out there trying new stuff I should be able to find something I like and am good at (or could become good at).
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