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Old 08-14-2013, 04:14 AM   #901
2M2MM
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Excellent post, Taylor. Your strong mindset and fundamentals are what sets you way above the rec players and the other regs. Don't let your mind play tricks on you. I know as well it's easy to let these short term things start to make you question. Just keep putting the time in and take it hand by hand and the results will start to show again!

Plus we got football season coming up soon and the quality of the games should start to improve as well
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:22 AM   #902
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I'm not in Vegas right now but before I left I noticed the games getting a lot nittier (supposedly like they always do, post-wsop).

I would imagine you breaking even is a product of the games your playing in being less swingy then normal since the amount of crazy action fish is down and your games have a higher concentration of tight regish players. Obviously your better than them but the game is playing a lot smaller and variance is reduced so your not going to have big upswings or big downswings.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:05 PM   #903
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Re the PLO hands you posted last wk, qj87ds just isn't a very good hand and shouldn't be calling a raise much less a 3bet
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:08 AM   #904
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Quote:
Originally Posted by R*R View Post

I will be in Vegas for the last week of August.

I hope to see you at the end of the month at the V so we can discuss your forthcoming upswing. Don't let me down.
Cool, definitely come by and say hi. I'll get right on that upswing haha

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Originally Posted by 2M2MM View Post
Excellent post, Taylor. Your strong mindset and fundamentals are what sets you way above the rec players and the other regs. Don't let your mind play tricks on you. I know as well it's easy to let these short term things start to make you question. Just keep putting the time in and take it hand by hand and the results will start to show again!

Plus we got football season coming up soon and the quality of the games should start to improve as well
Thanks man. I'm looking forward to football season as much as anyone out there. I don't play Saturdays during the season as I spend 12+ hrs sitting on my couch watching the college games but I'm looking forward to some action packed Sundays at the table.

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I'm not in Vegas right now but before I left I noticed the games getting a lot nittier (supposedly like they always do, post-wsop).

I would imagine you breaking even is a product of the games your playing in being less swingy then normal since the amount of crazy action fish is down and your games have a higher concentration of tight regish players. Obviously your better than them but the game is playing a lot smaller and variance is reduced so your not going to have big upswings or big downswings.
Yea I agree this is part of it. I'm still gonna win at a decent clip in those games though so while it will reduce variance it shouldn't eliminate w/r, but I do see your point. I have however played in some pretty wild games during that stretch. The PLO game was ridiculous and a couple of my lineups at 2/5nl this week were almost series-like. 2 players at my table on Monday had been playing 30+hrs straight.

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Re the PLO hands you posted last wk, qj87ds just isn't a very good hand and shouldn't be calling a raise much less a 3bet
I agree, I very nearly folded to the initial raise but alas did not.

Last edited by cushlash; 08-15-2013 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:17 PM   #905
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

In the qj87 hand where the 3bettor has 700 eff left an the other guy is allin its actually a trivial call
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:30 PM   #906
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by JockBay View Post
The big scores outweigh the little losses, even if the losses occur 90% of the time. I'm not taking a shot at you, but I think you may not realize what the term expected value (EV) actually means.

Basically, If he played the main an infinite amount of times...he would be in the black assuming he is indeed +EV.


Keep crushing!


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Let me respond... Not taking a shot at you.

EV... is an summation of a mathematical formula dealing with/expressing probabilities of an outcome for a given set of parameters. these, FORMULAS, do not take into account player types... skill sets... or quality of play.

The Expect Value is precisely the same for every single player that enters the Main Event... if a player makes a statement that they are +EV for the main event... then every player MUST BE +EV for the main event.

I think I have this right when I expressing this for an average 6500 player field and a first prize of 8.5 mil/win or 59mil/money:
(-10,000)(6,499/6,500) + (8,490,000)(1/6,500) = -8692.30 For the win
(-10,000)(6,499/6,500) + (59778800)(1/6,500) = -801.72 For the Money
feel free to correct me in my equation is off(or way off)

now if Taylor was trying to state, in no uncertain terms, that his play skills are "+EV", then I do have an understanding... and he may be right against a major portion of the field in general, but it makes about as much sense as a player commenting at some point that they don't make a play to break even... then they constantly make plays for full effective stacks that appear to be based merely on (or very close to) break even odds/Coin flips...

Last edited by MSchu18; 08-15-2013 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:41 PM   #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchu18 View Post

The Expect Value is precisely the same for every single player that enters the Main Event... if a player makes a statement that they are +EV for the main event... then every player MUST BE +EV for the main event
.
This is 100% false.
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:23 PM   #908
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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The Expect Value is precisely the same for every single player that enters the Main Event...
Phil Ivey and Shaun Deeb's grandma have the same EV
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:28 PM   #909
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Phil Ivey and Shaun Deeb's grandma have the same EV
***** gots game, baby!
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Old 08-24-2013, 03:02 AM   #910
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Hey guys, been some time since my last update, unfortunately its not because I've been too busy counting the monies. EDIT: This post got very "blowing off steam-ish", just a fair warning.

Still going through a pretty bad patch here and its really starting to get to me. Its such a shame too because a couple weeks ago I was feeling really good and ready to grind some serious hours but then every day I got smacked in the face just enough that eventually it became tiresome to go play. I'm not really losing big pots or getting sucked out on, I'm just losing EVERY pot. I've had more hands that I thought I was value-betting turn into losers than I care to count.

I've been writing hands down the last few sessions and reviewing them later, recording my thoughts in a word doc like I have done in the past. It helps to get my thoughts down but lately its been getting more complicated because I keep losing every hand I'm in and just don't know what to say about them. There is always sound logic behind the decisions I make but right now I'm just not confident with my play. I can't say I've definitively made a mistake or offer any reasons to have played any different but when I'm losing over and over again my mind does what the human mind is trained to do and says "you're doing something wrong". Poker complicates things because variance makes it easy to lose even when playing well. Based on my analysis I think I'm playing just fine but I'm starting to doubt myself and my thought processes.

Its really making me not want to play and a bunch of sessions lately have been cut short. Today I nearly didn't go in. I dropped my parents off at the airport who had been in town for a few days, came back to my apartment, did my usual morning stuff and right when I was about to head out I was just like "you know what, I don't feel like playing right now". I literally put my shoes back and contemplated for a few minutes before deciding that I was fine to play and I should go in because it was Friday and there were lots of games. In truth I did feel fine and by the time I got to the poker room I felt great. But after my session I felt like I should have stayed home. Hindsight is always 20/20 and if I had won big instead of lost big I wouldn't be thinking that.

In my 160 hours since the WSOP ended I'm basically exactly even at 2/5 and down overall due to the PLO session a couple weeks ago and a short 5/10 session yesterday. This alone is in the top 3 of my worst stretches. In reality there's no such thing as a downswing and the cards are random every hand but when you go through a period in which random chance parlays one losing situation after another it starts to feel like the universe is against you.

As bleak as this post sounds, I really am fine and am working through the best I can. As I said in a recent post, I know I'm a winner in these games and need to stay confident and upbeat. Today was the first day I've felt really frustrated and the losing has been going on for a while.

In any field, dealing with adversity well really separates the true professionals from all the rest. I'm doing my best right now to deal with it positively and not let it affect my life/mood outside of poker. It probably doesn't come off as such in this post, but I think I've done a pretty good job of that.

May or may not go play tomorrow, its really gonna depend on how I feel. I'd hate to take off the last Saturday I have to play until after college football season is over, but if I really don't want to play I won't.

Last edited by cushlash; 08-24-2013 at 03:16 AM.
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:07 PM   #911
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Hey Tyler,

Long time lurker int his thread.

Only recently signed up.

Have you ever thought about hiring a mindset coach.

I had a big downswing online last year and it really helped me.

Also not criticising you because I'm a big fan but if you we're 100% devoted to your profession you shouldn't be taking Saturdays off as they are surely +ev to play that day.

As poker players we are always looking for the the most +ev play at the table. To truly excel we should be doing the same off it. So my advice is tape that football game and play on Saturdays.

I will be in Vegas in a week to play some 2/5 and 5/10 at aria but will stop by the V to say hello and thanks for letting us have an insight in the life of a Vegas pro.
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:21 AM   #912
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by Kyle Saunders View Post
Hey Tyler,

Long time lurker int his thread.

Only recently signed up.

Have you ever thought about hiring a mindset coach.

I had a big downswing online last year and it really helped me.

Also not criticising you because I'm a big fan but if you we're 100% devoted to your profession you shouldn't be taking Saturdays off as they are surely +ev to play that day.

As poker players we are always looking for the the most +ev play at the table. To truly excel we should be doing the same off it. So my advice is tape that football game and play on Saturdays.

I will be in Vegas in a week to play some 2/5 and 5/10 at aria but will stop by the V to say hello and thanks for letting us have an insight in the life of a Vegas pro.
Haven't thought of hiring a mindset coach but I have read some books on the subject that have definitely helped me and I probably need to revisit them. (Mental Game of Poker and The Poker Mindset come to mind)

I'm glad you like the thread and am always open to criticism but I'm gonna have to disagree with your thoughts on my taking Saturdays off during football season. A huge part of being successful as a professional poker player is having balance. Its unfortunate that college football games are on one of the best days to play poker, but for me its still hugely +life EV to take off and watch the games.

College football has always been a big part of my life and I get a lot of enjoyment out of it. I watch games all day long so its not just one game I could tape and watch later. There are games going from 9am to late in the evening, with some of the west coast games not starting until 10:30pm, so for me to tape them all and watch them later wouldn't be feasible, nor would it be nearly as exciting seeing them after the fact. It'd be hard to not see scores with all the TVs in the poker room, which besides spoiling the games, would be a huge distraction for me.

So yea Saturdays are +EV poker wise, but my life would be significantly worse if I didn't allow myself to enjoy something that is that special to me. And what am I giving up really? Lets say my baseline hourly at 2/5 is 50. Now lets say on Saturday's it goes up to 70 which tbh is prob a bit generous but we'll go with it. By not playing on Saturday I'm not giving up 70/hr, I'm only giving up the 20/hr difference because if I played Saturday I would take off a different day that I would otherwise play if I did take off Saturday. So lets say I would play an average of 7 hours. I'm giving up 140 in EV to do something that adds immensely to my life because it makes me happy. To me its not even close and I'll give up that 140 all day long. Its also only approximately 4 months out of the year.

My point is that being a professional poker player doesn't mean chasing every +EV situation at all costs. It means balancing playing with life stuff in such a way that maximizes overall life EV. Too much poker and not enough fun will lead to a miserable existence. At the same time, too much fun and not enough poker will make it hard to maintain a happy life because eventually there won't be enough money to afford to do fun things or pay for that life in general. Its all about finding a balance, which will be different for each individual. I think its wrong to say that me, or anyone else making a decision to sacrifice some EV at the table for a larger amount of life EV in a situation like this is not 100% devoted to their profession. In fact I would argue exactly the opposite. If someone constantly makes sacrifices in regard to things they enjoy to chase EV at a poker table I think they are doing it wrong.

Thanks again for your feedback, didn't mean to take a dig at you but this is just something I feel strongly about. Definitely stop by and say hello when you're in town.

Last edited by cushlash; 08-25-2013 at 05:50 AM.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:31 AM   #913
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

well stated mr cushlash...I know we have had this convo multiple times and I obv agree with balance and life ev
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:28 PM   #914
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Quote:
Originally Posted by cushlash View Post
Haven't thought of hiring a mindset coach but I have read some books on the subject that have definitely helped me and I probably need to revisit them. (Mental Game of Poker and The Poker Mindset come to mind)

I'm glad you like the thread and am always open to criticism but I'm gonna have to disagree with your thoughts on my taking Saturdays off during football season. A huge part of being successful as a professional poker player is having balance. Its unfortunate that college football games are on one of the best days to play poker, but for me its still hugely +life EV to take off and watch the games.

College football has always been a big part of my life and I get a lot of enjoyment out of it. I watch games all day long so its not just one game I could tape and watch later. There are games going from 9am to late in the evening, with some of the west coast games not starting until 10:30pm, so for me to tape them all and watch them later wouldn't be feasible, nor would it be nearly as exciting seeing them after the fact. It'd be hard to not see scores with all the TVs in the poker room, which besides spoiling the games, would be a huge distraction for me.

So yea Saturdays are +EV poker wise, but my life would be significantly worse if I didn't allow myself to enjoy something that is that special to me. And what am I giving up really? Lets say my baseline hourly at 2/5 is 50. Now lets say on Saturday's it goes up to 70 which tbh is prob a bit generous but we'll go with it. By not playing on Saturday I'm not giving up 70/hr, I'm only giving up the 20/hr difference because if I played Saturday I would take off a different day that I would otherwise play if I did take off Saturday. So lets say I would play an average of 7 hours. I'm giving up 140 in EV to do something that adds immensely to my life because it makes me happy. To me its not even close and I'll give up that 140 all day long. Its also only approximately 4 months out of the year.

My point is that being a professional poker player doesn't mean chasing every +EV situation at all costs. It means balancing playing with life stuff in such a way that maximizes overall life EV. Too much poker and not enough fun will lead to a miserable existence. At the same time, too much fun and not enough poker will make it hard to maintain a happy life because eventually there won't be enough money to afford to do fun things or pay for that life in general. Its all about finding a balance, which will be different for each individual. I think its wrong to say that me, or anyone else making a decision to sacrifice some EV at the table for a larger amount of life EV in a situation like this is not 100% devoted to their profession. In fact I would argue exactly the opposite. If someone constantly makes sacrifices in regard to things they enjoy to chase EV at a poker table I think they are doing it wrong.

Thanks again for your feedback, didn't mean to take a dig at you but this is just something I feel strongly about. Definitely stop by and say hello when you're in town.
I absolutely concur. I wish that I had your wisdom when I was your age.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:48 PM   #915
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Yeah I totally understand what you are saying.

And it's only you who really knows what's best for you.

If the games were on the Tv's in the poker room then that would be a big distraction.

I guess I was just thinking back to the days when I had to turn down my friends request to go out on Friday/Saturday night to sit in juicy games online.

My friends at the time didn't know how my win rate was higher then theirs even though I wasn't as good at the time.

My answer was always "game selection/priorities"

But back to you. As a primary online player who has played some live poker I found that its very hard for a live player to work out are they playing bad or running bad whereas online it's quite easily to work out.

The variance is also way worse live. Maybe post some hands in LLSNL forum.
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:10 PM   #916
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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I guess I was just thinking back to the days when I had to turn down my friends request to go out on Friday/Saturday night to sit in juicy games online.
I think it was Balugawhale that once wrote "never ditch your friends for poker". Ever since I read that its a mantra I try to live by so declining a night out for a juicy poker game isn't something I would do unless I was a high stakes balla playing a nosebleed game that only ran a couple days a year or something.

Quote:
But back to you. As a primary online player who has played some live poker I found that its very hard for a live player to work out are they playing bad or running bad whereas online it's quite easily to work out.

The variance is also way worse live. Maybe post some hands in LLSNL forum.
Yea this is the tough thing about live, its so hard to judge the role of variance vs. quality of play. Countless people have been tricked into thinking they're professional level players by just running hot for a year.

I have a group of people who's games I respect that I can bounce hands/ideas off of so I don't really post in LLSNL. I use to post over there a little but a vast majority of the advice is just plain garbage so I don't bother anymore.
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:36 PM   #917
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I don't play much cards at the moment but I can relate to a fellow B10 fans desire to watch football. As a die hard fan all the way across the country I wont miss a game. If I am not watching it live due to some obstacle I will be streaming it via Bluetooth to my ears. I follow Michigan football recruitment obsessively and subscribe to scout.coms Michigan site. I would go crazy if I wasnt watching. I didnt even go to Michigan I went to Western Michigan. Its my release for a few months a year. What he loses in $$ at the table he gains in sanity. Its too bad he roots for an inferior team though. Go Blue and good luck. :-)
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:45 AM   #918
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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I don't play much cards at the moment but I can relate to a fellow B10 fans desire to watch football. As a die hard fan all the way across the country I wont miss a game. If I am not watching it live due to some obstacle I will be streaming it via Bluetooth to my ears. I follow Michigan football recruitment obsessively and subscribe to scout.coms Michigan site. I would go crazy if I wasnt watching. I didnt even go to Michigan I went to Western Michigan. Its my release for a few months a year. What he loses in $$ at the table he gains in sanity. Its too bad he roots for an inferior team though. Go Blue and good luck. :-)
I don't follow the recruiting as closely as you but I watch whatever games are on from 9am on every Saturday, usually flipping between 3 or 4 games. I share your sentiment in that if I didn't get to watch I'd go nuts.

Also GO BADGERS!!!!!!
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:06 AM   #919
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Ooh, didn't realize I was a rival (sort of). Go wildcats!
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:18 AM   #920
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Ooh, didn't realize I was a rival (sort of). Go wildcats!
I second that...somehow we are ranked in the preseason top 25 this year!
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:34 AM   #921
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Hey guys, wrapped up a pretty brutal month today. Ended up losing a small 3 figure amount so while not a big losing month, its still pretty frustrating especially after an essentially identical result in July.

Sessions since my last update have been pretty up and down. After another loser I finally booked a substantial winner on Saturday. Had a short break-even session Sunday followed by another big winner on Monday headlined by making queens full on Q7662 and getting 200bb in on the river against what I was later told was 7's full.

I proceeded to lose back what I won in that session the next time I played. Just could not win a pot and got over tripped in a limped pot against a gigantic fish. I had J6o and checked the big blind, flop came KJJ and the money got in on the turn and I lost to JT. The guy was stacking off with middle pair and not folding to any bet with any piece so it was kind of unfortunate to get coolered by him there. That hand accounted for only about 1/3 of my loss though as I just ran pretty awful the whole session along with making a couple errors.

Today was a rebound despite being a very small win. I say that because I'm really happy with the way I played, but also with the way I handled myself. Up about 100bb, I table changed to a crazy game. Stacks were deep and people were gambling. Other than one small losing hand in the beginning things started slow for me but chips were flying all around. In my first major hand I lost set over set in a 4 way pot against a huge fish and was back to even. Lost a medium sized pot to Squid and then lost a big flip when a super spazzy kid 3bet squeezed my open. We ended up getting it in preflop, my AK against his JJ and he held.

At this point I had just gone from up 100bb to down 200bb in less than 2 orbits and was poised to yet again book a loss in a wild, fishy game, all in the midst of one of my worst stretches as a poker player. I didn't even bat an eye, put another buy-in on the table and kept playing poker. Perhaps the cards kept me out of difficult spots, but I didn't tilt away a dime and played solid poker after those 2 hands. I was even discussing the hands I had just lost with the spots in the game and laughing about it. Thanks to getting a double up a few orbits later I would leave just slightly in the black. I'm a pretty humble guy so I hope this doesn't come off as super arrogant, but I was just really proud of how well composed I stayed in this situation in order to take advantage of a great lineup whereas I previously might have been too tilted to stick around.

So despite some pretty awful results lately, I'm slowly getting my confidence back and in the process have improved my game. Sooner or later the results will catch up.

Off day tomorrow for college football which I'm super excited for as you all know, and then back at the tables on Sunday.

Last edited by cushlash; 08-31-2013 at 03:48 AM.
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:55 PM   #922
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Excellent, knowledgeable thread. Will try to keep up.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:27 PM   #923
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Take a break from the Venetian.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:15 PM   #924
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Take a break from the Venetian.
I agree. I keep telling myself I'm gonna go play other places (been considering Wynn 2/5 and Bellagio 5/10 lately) but still end up at Venetian I guess out of habit. I like having a regular casino, but I think a change of pace is in order. If I play at all the next few days I'm going to go somewhere other than Venetian.

........................

So I've had a pretty hellish week, having gone 0/4 so far. Today I only played 2 hours. I got into a close spot which could have gone either way between bet/call and bet/fold. I chose bet/fold and am fine with that decision. At the time though, what was a pretty run of the mill loss in a not uncommon spot angered me with an intensity way out of proportion to the actual hand, signaling to me that it was time to get the **** out of there. I didn't blow up in any way physically or verbally, but I was pretty clearly frustrated to anyone looking at me. The poor results of my recent sessions had just been building up and this is the hand where it finally became too much. This has happened before and it always means its time to take a break.

I have a vacation planned to Arizona next week and was trying to play a full schedule until then but its just not worth it to me to play if I'm angry/miserable at the table, so I may just take some extra time off and not play until I get back.

On a positive note, I know that a year, or even 6 months ago it wouldn't have taken nearly this long of a stretch of run-bad for me to "snap", which means my tilt control is getting better. Tilt is rarely an issue for me and I feel one of my strengths is my emotional control but tilt is an area that could always benefit from improvement.

Last edited by cushlash; 09-05-2013 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:44 PM   #925
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

One of your good qualities is your sense of introspection. Another is your lack of denial (i.e. your internal honesty). These will help you out now and in the long run. A little vacation time is clearly in order, and an extra couple of days bonus won't hurt. Keep things in perspective and think long term.
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