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Old 02-26-2013, 12:21 PM   #701
ArsenalGunners2
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

imo
1. people play so bad in low stakes live blind vs blind.
2. and also once you say you dont chop, they sometimes get mad and play even worse.
3. the table isnt losing money unless its in CA where most places are $4 or $5 rake irregardless of the pot( once it goes to the flop)
4. you cant win $ in chopped pots (chopping is boring)
5. once you get a table full of choppers, a lot of times people in the CO and button will start folding marginal hands they would otherwise play when it folds to them(solely because the people in blinds want to chop)
6. alot of times once you say you never chop, other people will stop chopping, which in turn creates more showdowns,action, money moving around etc.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:17 PM   #702
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by McMelchior View Post
I would be very interested in learning what considerations went into this decission.

I'm asking because personally, as a recreational player who's money should be easy prey for players your caliber, the presence of somebody at my table who refuses to chop is a strong impetus to look for another table. Its just a very strong signal that "I'm not here to have fun and hang out, but to bully casual/socially minded players". It's hard for me to believe the decission not to chop actually has a +EV for you.

Well the main reason I chopped before was rake considerations. In live games its usually nearly impossible to beat the rake in heads up pots so I would just chop. Therefore I never have chopped at 5/10 where they take time instead of rake. However, the rake in vegas is smaller than most places, and the best I've seen for live games so if theres a raked game that you could make an argument for not chopping its here.

There was still the problem that you mentioned, which is that rec players wont like it. The thing is though, that doesn't seem to be a problem. Rec players don't care as long as you're consistent and don't make your chop decision based on the strength of your hand. For a lot of rec players it actually makes it seem more like you're there to have fun because you want to play hands, not chop the blinds. It also helps if you phrase it as "I always play" rather than "I don't chop".

The people that don't like it are the nit-regs and grumpy old guys, and I couldn't give a **** what they think. They are just gonna fold to my pf raise or flop bet a huge % of the time and then if you make a big hand they might just try a ridiculous bluff or overplay marginal hands to "teach me a lesson" for not chopping.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:20 PM   #703
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by ArsenalGunners2 View Post
imo
1. people play so bad in low stakes live blind vs blind.
2. and also once you say you dont chop, they sometimes get mad and play even worse.
3. the table isnt losing money unless its in CA where most places are $4 or $5 rake irregardless of the pot( once it goes to the flop)
4. you cant win $ in chopped pots (chopping is boring)
5. once you get a table full of choppers, a lot of times people in the CO and button will start folding marginal hands they would otherwise play when it folds to them(solely because the people in blinds want to chop)
6. alot of times once you say you never chop, other people will stop chopping, which in turn creates more showdowns,action, money moving around etc.
lol made that last post without realizing you posted this because it was on the next page. Nice summary, my post will seem somewhat redundant now but w/e
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:22 PM   #704
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by cushlash View Post
The people that don't like it are the nit-regs and grumpy old guys
Well, uhm, thanks for calling me a "grumpy old guy" ...

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and I couldn't give a **** what they think
and thanks for responding to my question anyway ... I think ...
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:06 PM   #705
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Hey guys, put together a nice little win streak over the last couple sessions, booking a couple ~100bb wins in a row, bringing it to 4 wins in a row. I have definitely been playing a little bit on the tighter side the last week or so after getting beat up playing too laggy in a few sessions before.

I think I've overadjusted a bit and have been playing too tight in certain spots. That sacrifices some EV, but I think I need to do that sometimes just because its easier to put wins together that way and it helps to get confidence back even if its not the most profitable way to play. Yesterday's session was a little bit frustrating because I kept having to fold preflop with hands that just no one else is folding but its 100% the right play. So its good that I'm able to fold correctly but still annoying to fold trash for an hour, pick up a decent starting hand, and then have to fold it anyways.

It wasn't all bad though, as I did end up bluffing the man, the myth, the legend RobFarha off a pot yesterday, double barreling a A822 board with 45o and getting him to fold his 99. Not sure what he's doing folding pairs, its not easy to make a pair in this game. Nits are gonna nit I guess.

Now that I feel like I'm thinking clearly again I'm going to start slowly opening it up again to take advantage of the more high variance, but profitable spots.

With DSE is over, the Wynn has started their spring classic series and I've been hearing the games have been good, so today I'm planning on playing there for the first time. Its the only major LV room that I haven't played in so it should be interesting.
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:24 PM   #706
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Read each and every page in public transport or during waiting etc, and enjoyed every page of it. Keep up the good work cush!
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:29 PM   #707
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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I think I've overadjusted a bit and have been playing too tight in certain spots.
Join the nit army

I loved most Wynn games when I was there in February. Would be interested in your view on them since you have so much experience with 2/5 at the V - which I always found tougher to play. But of course with just a few sessions over the year my samplesize on both is obviously very bad.

Keep on posting, love your blog!
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:18 AM   #708
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Ok so I have once again failed to play poker at the Wynn. I went there Saturday fully expecting to play but arrived to a list 34 people long which I was 23rd on. Because of the tournament they couldn't open any more tables and the floor informed me that it would be a couple hours because of alternates that they would seat as people busted out. So to the Venetian I went.

I ended up having a pretty good session, booking a nice win. After losing an initial small all-in with a pair+flush draw against a straight draw+higher flush draw I went on a nice run. Most of it came in two hands where I flopped a set of 3's and got paid in big pots.

Yesterday was more 2/5 at the V and I kept the win streak alive with another fairly substantial take. There weren't any real hands of note, just won chunks here and there and never really got hit.

Today was pretty insane, all because of one hand. I had been up early due to a big blind special in which I flopped trips and rivered a boat with 23 and another hand where I got AA all-in preflop and held. Then this hand came up. I'm going to do a decent amount of analysis for this one because otherwise my play seems insane (and it still might be).

I have 99 in the sb. One guy with a 290 stack limps and this asian kid raises to 20. He is a somewhat scared money, weak-tight player that didn't do much iso-raising or anything so I'm confident his opening range is fairly nutted. He is sitting on about 1200 and I cover. I call, as does the bb and limper.

Flop comes 843. I check, bb checks, and the limp caller bets 35 into 80. The asian guy calls and I raise to 125. My thinking here is that the guy who bet would bet much more with a big hand to "protect against the draws" so I can pretty much throw sets and overpairs out of his range. He pretty much always has 8x of spades, combo draws, or bare flush draws and I am looking to get him to shove and flip with him for the dead money. I also don't think the Asian kid can be that strong because he would tend to raise big hands so his hand really looks like TT-QQ or a big spades. According to plan, the short stack shoves for 270 total.

Here's where it gets interesting. The asian kid puts in 5 green chips, I guess to call my 125. The dealer informs him that its 235 more for him to call because the other player had shoved all in. Now he takes the greens out and asks if he can take it back. The dealer says he will call the floor but that the call will have to stand. The asian kid then just says ok and puts the call in. After the call he has 925 left and I cover. At this point I could just call and hope he checks down with me, but I'd really hate to do that and then get shown TT or something or give him a free showdown with some sort of big flush draw. Plus, if he didn't want to call 235 more, he should fold for 925.

So I put out a stack of red and announce "all-in".

And he tanks. Probably 5-6 minutes go by and he stands up, clearly in agony. At last he utters "I call" and the turn and river are dealt K-T. The short stack tables J8 for pair+fd which gets there on the river to win the main pot. I table my 9's and the asian guy shows AA to take the side pot.

I really thought he would fold, and the fact that he took so long to call with AA shows that he's folding everything else, and also would sometimes fold the aces. He can never have a set with his action when he was forced to call the 270 and with his initial call of the 35 I really thought AA/KK was out of his range. He was clearly not angling and really appeared to not want to call the 270. So if he can't have a set and AA/KK can at least be discounted partially, its just gonna be so hard for him to call with anything else. Unfortunately he found a call but I still feel like I made the best play given the circumstances.

I think the best part was that after seeing the aces, I asked "how much is it?" and when informed 925 I put in the money without saying a word or changing the expression on my face, reached into my pocket to top up my stack and played the next hand. Though I didn't play much longer, I played really well, making necessary aggressive plays in 2 other pots, both of which I would win. This just showed me how far my emotional control has come and I'm damn proud of that.

So with that hand my win streak came to an end, though my loss was actually not big at all due to being up a decent amount to start that hand.

About an hour later I met up with another poster on here for a bite to eat and had some good conversation about some hands and just some stuff having to do with being a professional poker player. Not feeling like playing afterwards I headed home.

So a short day today and the first day of the week led to only a 30hr week. Having discussed with Rob a lot I realized he's getting in way more hours than me and its really motivating me to play more as well. So I'm taking tomorrow off as usual, and then shooting for 40hrs next week. With march madness coming up the games should be off the charts and I want to be ready to get in tons of volume.

Last edited by cushlash; 03-05-2013 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:36 AM   #709
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

as i said b4 i really like your play...and btw my play netted me a date tomorrow!! oh yeaaaa a strong move does in fact pay off
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:52 AM   #710
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and btw my play netted me a date tomorrow!! oh yeaaaa a strong move does in fact pay off
What's his name?

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Old 03-05-2013, 10:30 AM   #711
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

T... don't even get me started.

the best part of that post is "I put in the money without saying a word or changing the expression on my face, reached into my pocket to top up my stack and played the next hand."
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:31 AM   #712
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The best part of that post is "I put in the money without saying a word or changing the expression on my face, reached into my pocket to top up my stack and played the next hand."
I totally agree. Good job on being cold blooded. Emotions are for fish.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:43 PM   #713
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I don't like the play. You're trying to get a guy to fold an overpair just so you can flip a coin vs the shortstack? If he's not folding aces then he's not folding kings or queens, they're all the same hand here.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:01 PM   #714
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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I don't like the play. You're trying to get a guy to fold an overpair just so you can flip a coin vs the shortstack? If he's not folding aces then he's not folding kings or queens, they're all the same hand here.
not to him
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:03 PM   #715
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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as i said b4 i really like your play...and btw my play netted me a date tomorrow!! oh yeaaaa a strong move does in fact pay off
lol nice work
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:27 PM   #716
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I know you're not looking for a hand break down here T... but I might not be able to help myself

and that floor ruling is off.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:54 PM   #717
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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I know you're not looking for a hand break down here T... but I might not be able to help myself

and that floor ruling is off.
Swing away my man, or next time you're at the V we can discuss.

Floor never actually came, but he released 5 green chips into the pot in addition to his 7 red chips from the original call and since the dealer announced the other guy was all in, put all his chips in the pot and put out the all-in button, I have a hard time believing any V floor would have let him take it back and fold.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:09 PM   #718
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

baller ship imo
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:18 PM   #719
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

How much money do you make off great bluffs vs actually having a hand (better than a pair)? I know you thought he might fold based on the action but really i think you only get called by better hands here and it is really a high risk play. It sounds like you have the cash to handle the risk and seem fine with it. I prefer to try to play a bit more conservative and not make that shove unless i have something stronger than one pair.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:21 PM   #720
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Of course he only gets called by better hands. It's not a value shove it's to isolate the short stack.

it raises both EV and monetary variance to shove but I think it's correct in theory. Now I know it's correct because the guy tank 5min called with literally the top of his range.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:50 PM   #721
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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How much money do you make off great bluffs vs actually having a hand (better than a pair)? I know you thought he might fold based on the action but really i think you only get called by better hands here and it is really a high risk play. It sounds like you have the cash to handle the risk and seem fine with it. I prefer to try to play a bit more conservative and not make that shove unless i have something stronger than one pair.
Rob touched on it but yea I'm only getting called by better. I'm turning my hand into a bluff to get a better hand to fold and flip for the dead money in the main pot.

Yea I mean 90% or more of my earn at 2/5 comes from value betting, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to bluff if I think its profitable. Being over rolled allows me to take advantage of high variance spots like this to increase my win rate. Am I going to fall flat on my face/look silly sometimes when I get called on a +EV bluff and every once in a while make a -EV play? Hell yea. I'm also gonna make more money long term than someone who plays straight forward and doesn't take the high variance, +EV gambles.

I certainly wouldn't look down on you or anyone else who chooses the less variance route, hell I made conscious decisions to be in that camp even just a couple months ago. Unless you are over rolled and have high confidence in your game, taking such gambles can kill even a reasonable bankroll and really **** with your head if you don't trust what you're doing.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:01 AM   #722
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Interesting hand. Not sure how much FE you actually have but it's weird he choose not to raise the flop with the overpair to isolate against the shortstack. Big mistake there. Once he calls I'd weight his range to TT-QQ and big spades. Just goes to show why fast-playing big hands is usually the best line at 2/5.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:19 PM   #723
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Taking an unexpected day off today because a combination of late night and spring forward messed me up so I decided to update now instead of waiting till the end of my "week" (wed-mon normally).

I've played mostly 2/5 since my last update, with one 5/10 session and a foray into my first casino open face chinese game.

2/5 has been going pretty well, lost a bit wednesday and the last two days have both been decent winners. Yesterday was really swingy as I was up early, swung back into the red a little, and then ended up winning almost 200bb.

Bravo showed 4 5/10's going when I checked Thursday night so I decided to head over there on Friday. There were 2 games the whole time I was there and the must move was fantastic. Unfortunately as I got to the main game the bad players had slowly gone broke and all that was left was competent players. I bolted, having played 3.5 hrs and breaking even.

Because the list was a mile long and Aria's room is small and they couldn't open any more tables, I went to the V for some 2/5. Played a short session in which I got AQ in pre vs Rob's AK and binked the Q on the flop. The hand has been discussed a bunch in Rob's thread and I'm getting flamed by the 2+2 braintrust, but with our dynamic and the fact that it was an un-opened pot with him in HJ and me on the button, AQ is an instant stack off.

Lastly, on Thursday I played about a 3 hr session of 2/5 and then racked up a tiny win to watch the Wisconsin bball game and sweat Rob as he had jumped in the 5/pt open face chinese game at the V. After the game was over Rob had gotten bit by the variance monster so we went and had a bite to eat. Came back and Rob went back to 2/5 and I didn't feel like playing holdem so I decided to take my shot in the open face game. Now I'm no expert, but two of the other three guys were definitely making mistakes and just getting there on unbelievable draws, so I figured if I just played it safe I'd be able to hold my own. Unfortunately the variance monster reared its ugly head at me too and I ended up losing a bit more than I would have liked. While I'm no expert at the game and certainly made mistakes, I've played enough to know that I was at the very least break-even in that game.

Despite that, it probably wasn't the smartest idea to play at 5x the stakes I've played at before, but I wanted to try it out and the loss I took was basically nothing relative to my BR. Its definitely an interesting/fun game and I think when online comes back it has a good chance of taking off. I'll definitely stick to playing smaller just for fun until I've done the necessary work to feel comfortable in the bigger game though.

Edit: didn't explain open face chinese, heres a recent article that explains it pretty well: http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/i...nese-poker.php. Basically its like Pai gow, you get 13 cards and make two 5 card hands and a 3 card hand, where bottom had to be strongest, middle second strongest, and top weakest. In open face you only start with 5 cards, set them face up, and then set cards one at a time in the open slots in your hand.

Last edited by cushlash; 03-10-2013 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:51 PM   #724
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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. . . The hand has been discussed a bunch . . . and I'm getting flamed by the 2+2 braintrust . . .
LOL . . . To paraphrase the hook from an old Bob Dylan song . . . Everybody must get flamed.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:51 AM   #725
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

standard hand given positional dynamics. nh!
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