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Old 11-18-2012, 01:32 AM   #451
cushlash
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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@Taylor: sorry for the derail, we will finish planning the outing in the meet-up thread. Of course, would love for you to join us.
No worries man, I'll check in on the thread for details.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:01 PM   #452
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Starberry texted me and said he wanted to go to the Thunder from Down Under show. I naturally agreed.
I am totally in tune with my sexuality - to quote teh ice mahn "deal me in"
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:02 PM   #453
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

* for those that dont know - the ice man is a poker player / wrapper (see what i did) that has a song called....you got it - "deal me in"
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:26 AM   #454
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Hey guys, got a couple more sessions in since the last update. It was nice having Saturday off and the last two days I've played a little shorter of sessions. My little win streak ended yesterday with a decent sized loss. I think I played well except for one bad river bet, but the whole session I had a bad, losing image and couldn't get anything done. Cards weren't cooperating and I was getting tired so I booked it.

Today started off well as I won a big pot early, flopping a set against an open ender and a flush draw, all in 3 ways on the flop. Then I ran KK into AA, costing me about half what I won (not made, right squid?) in the previous hand. Other than that it was back to whiffing flops, failed cbets, and a losing image. I still am happy with how I played, though I think I made one fairly loose call with AJs when a tight guy min 4 bet me preflop. I just couldn't fold getting over 4:1 preflop with 100bbs behind and position but I probably should.

So 2 loses in a row for the first time this month. I was pretty hot for the first couple weeks of November and it was looking like my 5/10 shot would be closer than expected. I knew I was running good, and losing sessions are inevitable, but the closer I get to my BR goal the more antsy I get with wanting to jump up but I'm not gonna jump up until I hit it. With how the first half of this month went it was looking pretty good but the last two days have set me back some so I've got some work to do. With my family in town this week and with Thanksgiving coming up I'll probably be taking some much needed extra days off. Hopefully that will help me to stay focused when I am at the tables so I can keep improving and move up. I'm about 5 BI's away from my goal, so depending on variance it could be this week, could be in a month. I'm pretty excited for this because I never really moved up to 2/5, I just stopped playing 1/2 once I turned 21 and had 2/5 games available to me. I basically broke even in all my hours of 1/2 so I never even really beat it. I'm excited to be beating a level by grinding out the necessary BR and skills for the next one as I feel like I sorta cheated on the first jump because I got most of my 2/5 BR saving money mostly from working summer and part time jobs in high school and college.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:20 AM   #455
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I'm still amazed at how often you seem to be getting it "all in" in your normal sessions.

check your PM buddy.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:03 PM   #456
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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costing me about half what I won (not made, right squid?) in the previous hand.
brought a tear of joy to my eye my man...lol - wp
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Old 11-23-2012, 03:53 AM   #457
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Well first of all, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone out there.

Last night I stayed with my parents at the place they rented for the week and spent today with the family. We basically ate, watched football, and lounged around. It was nice to just relax all day.

So since I couldn't update last night I'll do one now. Got back on the winning track Tuesday, booking a small win. I started out down some but was able to work it back up. I played really well and was really proud of one hand where I got some thin value raising the river with a hand probably 95% of the player pool is just calling with.

Last night was actually pretty strange. I'm not sure how to explain it other than I got into a few goofy situations that are certainly not standard and it was just a weird session. Also folded KK pre flop for the 2nd time ever, 1st time at 2/5. The villain was definitely a tourist, but hadn't been playing too crazy. He wasn't super tight, but he had been playing pretty reasonably in the 1.5/2 hours I had played with him. And the thing is, even though he wasn't super tight, he didn't raise much pre-flop, let alone 3 bet or 5 bet. Rather he would just limp or call the raise in front of him when he played. I raised from early position to 25 and he 3bet to 80. Folds back to me and I make it 240. I barely have my hands out of the pot from making my bet and he insta-ships all-in for 910 total, 670 more. Getting about 1.7:1 I just can't imagine calling this off can be good. I tanked for a while and folded. He asked after the hand if I had kings, I said yea and he said I would have needed to get lucky, as he had two red aces. So even though I didn't see them, I'm 99% sure I was correct based on his actions and I think he was telling the truth after the hand.

I ended up dwindling a bit until the very last hand of my session where I won a big pot against this very player, getting 3 streets of value with AQ on an AJ283 board. He called me down the whole way, and I'm pretty sure he flopped AX and had a smaller Ace with a flush draw and couldn't fold on the river. The funny part about the hand is it should have been a misdeal because one player only got dealt 1 card. However, I had already raised and gotten called by the villain before the 1 card guy realized it, and since there had been what the floor defined as "significant action", the hand was allowed to be played out. Just shows ya that running good comes in many forms.

Less than 2 buy-ins away from 5/10. Gonna be playing a daytime session tomorrow and then going to the first of 2 Wisconsin basketball games being played here in Vegas (the 2nd most important reason my family came out for Thanksgiving, just a notch below visiting me ldo ).
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:28 AM   #458
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5/10 gogogogo

One thing, if you're going to have a 4bet folding range then make your 4bets a little smaller, 200 would have been better here. No hands except AA can profitably call, you save 8bb when you have to fold, and it changes nothing about post flop play.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:28 AM   #459
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I agree that the exact 3x 3/4bet has become pase for reasons above, saving more equity when you are behind. It's also a better 4 bet bluff size saving you .5-.8(2.2x-2.5x). (I am sure you already know all this T.)

I also think that when you show down lite after 4 betting with this sizing, you are going to get called by worse over time when you do have the goods due to the fact that it's closer to optimum odds for the V to call.

I think a lot of more accomplished players are three and four betting smaller with premiums and larger with the bottom of their polarized ranges.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:55 AM   #460
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Passť > pase

Good point, though.

Lots of good stuff ITT. Keep it up, everybody.
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:51 PM   #461
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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There are several reasons that lead me to taking a shot . . . .
Very well thought out response; you obviously have given this some thought.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:00 AM   #462
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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5/10 gogogogo

One thing, if you're going to have a 4bet folding range then make your 4bets a little smaller, 200 would have been better here. No hands except AA can profitably call, you save 8bb when you have to fold, and it changes nothing about post flop play.
Yea totally agree. This is something that has come up before and I was actually trying to make it like 2.5x but just goofed on the math.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:09 AM   #463
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Played a session Friday and two today. Neither went particularly well. Friday I got AQ in against A5 on AQ5, 5 on the turn. After that I lost a bunch just barreling away in good spots and getting called/raised. Near the end of my session I won a big flip, all-in pre-flop, which got me some back.

Today I wasn't really happy with my session at all. Got coolered pretty hard in a set over set confrontation in my first session. I did get some back but still ended my session in the red. In my second session I made one bad cbet and a bad turn barrel against a short stack when I didn't realize how short he was. I also value owned myself in two spots, though I was still happy with the hands.

So definitely some runbad, but also a few spots of play bad. I would probably say today's session was 70% runbad and 30% play bad. If I have a bad session and its 100% runbad, I'm cool with that, but the fact that I played bad as well is what I wasn't happy with.

Planning on grinding hard this week as I want to get to 5/10 and every time I'm one good session away from my goal I get knocked down. Not discouraged though, just gotta keep trucking, 4 BI's to go.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:22 AM   #464
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Greetings Cush...

Glad to hear things are well for you, and you enjoyed a nice turkey day w/ your family.

It sounds like you're wanting to play $5/10. Best wishes sir. As I'm sure you're fully aware, often times the larger game can eat up smallish BR quicker than antisipated. That said, Jan. is right around the corner, and of course March is prime time......

After all of the posts about being within 3,4,5 buy-in's until you're ready for the next level I'm sure interested in a number? Give me a range? Is it $5k, $10k, $25K+??????
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:44 AM   #465
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Greetings Cush...

Glad to hear things are well for you, and you enjoyed a nice turkey day w/ your family.

It sounds like you're wanting to play $5/10. Best wishes sir. As I'm sure you're fully aware, often times the larger game can eat up smallish BR quicker than antisipated. That said, Jan. is right around the corner, and of course March is prime time......

After all of the posts about being within 3,4,5 buy-in's until you're ready for the next level I'm sure interested in a number? Give me a range? Is it $5k, $10k, $25K+??????
Thanks man. No numbers, but I'm sure you're familiar with the standard BR recommendations commonly given out on this site. I'm on the conservative end of most of them.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:19 AM   #466
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

A guy I was playing 2/5 with full time last year went to 5/10 full time and never looked back, now is playing prolly 30% 10/20+ and 70% 5/10. He posts on this [site] also, but knowing him in person, and seeing the pots and the size of the games he's playing is quite impressive!

I know all about conservative.....I've only played in the big game a hand full of times and was scared to death. And of all the players I've seen come & go in the last 2 years, and of all the big stories, and big dreams, and bla, bla, bla....exactly ONE player that I know actually was succesful at moving up. The uncapped (mid/high stakes) games are soooooo much different than low stakes. Sincerly wishing you the best sir......
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:51 AM   #467
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Thanks UtR, I've been told by numerous people how much different the 5/10 game is. Although I'm a bit nervous, I'm excited for the challenge and hopefully it will bring some nice rewards as well.

I've been grinding quite a bit the last couple days. 8 hours yesterday and 7 today. The increased amount of hours is due to a splitting up of sessions. I've been getting dinner with the family for the last few days and it puts a nice break in the middle and allows me to get in more hours. Although I have been feeling pretty groggy near the end of my after dinner session, I think I might play around with this type of schedule.

Yesterday I got in a hole pretty quick when KK<66 on a 457-3 board. This guy called my 3 bet pre-flop and called a 2/3 pot sized bet on the flop and spiked the turn. He shoved turn and because of stack sizes I couldn't really fold. Reloaded, got a seat change and from there it got better. Coolered Squid on a KTx board with KK. He had TT, what a fish . Ended up getting basically back to even.

In the second session I ran pretty hot and booked a pretty nice win. Stacked Teddy "The Iceman" Monroe (aka the #1 poker player in the world, just ask him) with AK on an AK5 flop.

Today was some good, some bad. Won in the first session, lost in the second for a net $4 win. In the first session my table was great but I got into a couple weird spots that cost me some money, though I'm satisfied with my decisions. Made a royal flush with KJ on an AT6KQ board and as an added bonus got paid on the river. That is my 3rd live royal flush (plus 1 online), which I'm pretty sure is above average. I've met people who have played for 30+ years and never had one.

Second session wasn't terrible but I made one bad bluff catch and a high variance call preflop, which while not hugely -EV, was probably not much better than neutral EV. Got a bit of it back before taking off, as I was getting tired and not paying close enough attention.

Since I've been close to my goal for 5/10 I've been running in place, getting a win, losing some back, and all over again. I'm confident I'll get there, just gotta ride out the variance train. 3 buy-ins to go.

..................................................

Looking around the Venetian poker room spurred something a bit off topic that I wanted to talk about. Yesterday I saw two guys I've played a fair bit of 2/5 with playing 1/2 right before I went to dinner. Then after my 2nd session I saw another player who usually plays 2/5 playing a 4-8 fixed limit game. Now I am in no way looking down upon them for this. Quite the opposite actually, as all 3 are young kids who in my opinion have no business playing 2/5. I'm pretty sure they all ran extremely hot when they first started playing, thought they were great, and are now just realizing they might have been wrong when their results are regressing back to the mean. I have a lot of respect for someone willing to put their ego aside and move down when their roll takes too big a hit to keep playing their normal stakes.

Now I saw two of those guys back playing 2/5 today, but my point still stands. There are lots of dudes who start off hot and ignore their leaks because of their early success. I think the ones that have the discipline to move down and look at their games when things go bad (and even when things are good) are the ones with the best chances to make it. As I prepare for my first shot at 5/10, I am confident that I will be able to drop back to 2/5 if it doesn't work out. Because I have a decent sample and actually think I ran pretty bad to start off, I don't think I'm one of those delusional kids that ran hot at the beginning, but its certainly still possible.

I'm sort of getting lost here even though when thinking about what I was gonna write it seemed really clear in my head. I guess my main point is that what I perceive as these kid's situation seems to be very common in the poker world. Squid has told me a couple times how many people he's seen come and go over the years, and I found it interesting to witness it first hand. It also gave me an appreciation for how tough this business can be, and reminded me of the type of discipline I hope to exhibit if I ever find myself in that situation, whether it be with my upcoming shot, or somewhere down the road.

Thanks for reading.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:03 AM   #468
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Looking around the Venetian poker room spurred something a bit off topic that I wanted to talk about. Yesterday I saw two guys I've played a fair bit of 2/5 with playing 1/2 right before I went to dinner. Then after my 2nd session I saw another player who usually plays 2/5 playing a 4-8 fixed limit game.

Now I saw two of those guys back playing 2/5 today, but my point still stands.
Any chance they were just donking around for the free drinks/being sociable?

I met up with 3 friends in Chicago recently and although we would all usually play different games/stakes, we wanted to carry on drinking together so actually started a new 3/6 limit table.

PS - Although I disagreed with the old J6 hand analysis previously, just wanted to say I was really enjoying the thread. Keep it up.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:33 PM   #469
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Good to see that you are so reflective about your game and that you aren't too proud to move back to 2/5 if necessary.

I 100% agree that running bad initially was probably good for you.... b/c it doesn't give you illusions about your skill level.

Good luck @ 5-10 and will catch you soon! (LVL meet-up @ Caesar's buffet...)

Cheers,

S
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:37 PM   #470
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Any chance they were just donking around for the free drinks/being sociable?

I met up with 3 friends in Chicago recently and although we would all usually play different games/stakes, we wanted to carry on drinking together so actually started a new 3/6 limit table.

PS - Although I disagreed with the old J6 hand analysis previously, just wanted to say I was really enjoying the thread. Keep it up.
Yea like I said 2 of them were back at 2/5 so I guess that is possible, but they never had drinks in front of them and my impression was that they were there trying to profit and not just to mess around.

Thanks man, glad you are enjoying the thread.

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Good to see that you are so reflective about your game and that you aren't too proud to move back to 2/5 if necessary.

I 100% agree that running bad initially was probably good for you.... b/c it doesn't give you illusions about your skill level.

Good luck @ 5-10 and will catch you soon! (LVL meet-up @ Caesar's buffet...)

Cheers,

S
Thanks, has a date/time been set for that yet?
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:08 PM   #471
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Personally, I love the little games and I don't see anything wrong with them or playing in them.

They are fun and it's really a different mindset during play. Practicing game adjustments because of the different table dynamics or having a really good run of cards at 1/2-1/3 where you know players are calling you down just because you are pushing them around is awesome.

I'm not one of those people that overtly look for optimal table dynamics just to satisfy an edge... on the contrary, I often look for sub optimal or extremely challenging table dynamics to further develop my skill sets. this may, and does account for more variance, but I feel that challenging yourself and NOT being comfortable with routines is the best way to develop. this at times means playing with players that will operate in a way that is contrary to developed/skilled norms.

Last edited by MSchu18; 11-28-2012 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:15 PM   #472
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Hey Cush, been following and enjoying thread. Just wanted to write a note of encouragement. Except for getting used to bigger pots I don't think you'll find a big difference between the 2/5 and 5/10 games. I go back and forth between the two of them a lot depending on the tables. I can't speak as much for the 5/10 at V though as I've only played that game 2 times.
good luck

Al
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:36 PM   #473
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Hey Cush, been following and enjoying thread. Just wanted to write a note of encouragement. Except for getting used to bigger pots I don't think you'll find a big difference between the 2/5 and 5/10 games. I go back and forth between the two of them a lot depending on the tables. I can't speak as much for the 5/10 at V though as I've only played that game 2 times.
good luck

Al
Thanks. I don't think I'll be playing much 5/10 at the V as the game isn't all that consistent. I'm probably gonna start off at Bellagio because of the lower cap.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:45 PM   #474
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

What about just buying into the games for 200 bb instead of 5/10?
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:32 PM   #475
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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What about just buying into the games for 200 bb instead of 5/10?
Because in general, winrate in 150 bb 5/10 > winrate in 200 bb 2/5
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