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Old 11-13-2012, 01:07 AM   #401
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

key guy - at teh V ---- its deepstack time and the gamez have bin off da hook

spoiler alert - cush and I played a WILD WILD WILD hand together that is quite funny
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:10 AM   #402
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by squid face View Post
key guy - at teh V ---- its deepstack time and the gamez have bin off da hook

spoiler alert - cush and I played a WILD WILD WILD hand together that is quite funny
Nice!


One of you going to post a hand history?
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:14 AM   #403
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

its his thread - I'll let him...that being said after the hand several people who were at the table had their head asplode. They had no clue as to wat da phuc had jus happened
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:20 AM   #404
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Guy View Post
Where? At the B?


Oh and nice thread cushlash, you are wise beyond your years. Keep up the good work!
Thanks man, yea like squid said, games at the V have been great because of DSE.

Hand history will be in the next post.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:56 AM   #405
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Ok so as promised I'll include that hand with squid in this update. First I'll do my normal session update stuff. Yesterday was decent, my first table was really good. I was able to pick up some nice profit without many showdowns. Unfortunately right around the time we were gonna break for dinner (my brother was at the same table) the table got really short and most of the dead money had either left or gone broke. So thinking the table would break we just racked up. After dinner we got at the same table again and it was damn good. I ended up losing a bit mostly due to value owning myself on the river when a guy hit a king high flush against my overpair and just called my river bet. Overall a good session and didn't have any tough spots to speak of.

Today was a good session also. I got in one hand early with squid to start off, which I'll explain below. Then I flopped a set of kings against a guy that flatted me preflop with AA. From there it was mostly small pots, and despite losing a couple all-ins with TPGK against short stacks I kept building my stack and ended with a nice profit.

Its been going well lately as I'm getting on the right side of variance more times than not, but I also feel like I'm playing the best poker I have since I got here. Also, the last two times I've been up big I've been able to keep my cool and not let it affect my play, so I'm making strides in those psychological areas on top of the technical stuff.

Ok so here's the hand with squid. I wasn't going to post it because it involves some meta-game stuff and pretty deep strategy considerations, but squid requested I write about it, and its a really cool hand so I'm gonna post about it. Fair warning for friends/family, this is not gonna make any sense. I encourage you to still read it and would love to explain more if you want but at least in this post I'm not gonna try to bring it down to laymen's terms.

Alright so pretty early in my session I pick up 88 UTG+2. UTG opens to 15 and the guy to my right calls. I flat as well, basically just set-mining. Two or three more people call behind and squid makes it 90 from the BB. The preflop raiser folds and at this point I'm planning on shipping because even though I haven't seen it in this session, I know squid is capable of squeezing here with any two, knowing he's gonna pick up the pot a lot of the time. So I'm way ahead of his range with my 88. But now the first caller flats the 90. This worried me a bit because he was an old nitish type player and this flat could easily be QQ/JJ that just isn't gonna fold. However, he also plays AK/AQ hands the same way, and those are definitely folding (and even if not, I'm ahead), along with 99/TT. I also think it makes it harder for squid to call because he has to worry about him also, so I stick with my initial plan and ship my 500 stack, pretty much thinking I'm gonna pick it up right now. Squid ends up thinking for a while and after getting a count of the raise ends up re-shipping, and the other guy folds. The board ran out A94TQ, I flip over 88 and its good.

The rest of the table's head's explode because they can't fathom how I would get in 88 preflop, get called, and be good on that board. Before I flipped over my cards one guy was convinced that I HAVE to have AA. Turns out squid was squeezing with J6. He was getting about 1.75 on a call and because he knows my range is capped he called it off knowing at worst he had one over card and could have two live cards against an unpaired hand. He also knew more about the flatter than I did, so even though I thought he would have to worry about him, he said that he wasn't worried about him because he knows he's always folding to the re-ship, so basically its like we were just heads up, but now he's getting better pot odds because of the guy's dead 90 in the pot. My range is capped because if I had a super premium hand I would have 3-bet initially, but because I flatted I can't really have a pair over the J. I know he knows this but since 88 is still way ahead of his squeezing range its still a profitable shove. Certainly an interesting spot and one of the craziest hand I've played at 2/5. Squid, hope I explained your thought process accurately based on what we talked about after but I don't want to speak for you so if I missed anything please chime in.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:08 PM   #406
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

lol... you two donks.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:12 PM   #407
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Nice reshove with J6.

Amazing that this person is allowed to breed.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:24 PM   #408
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I see walts level here for sure... he's competent. that range is prime for reshoving(perhaps not as much as say 7/6).
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:26 PM   #409
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Quote:
Originally Posted by mackem790 View Post
Nice reshove with J6.

Amazing that this person is allowed to breed.
ty sir apreciate that. did you not read hiz poast or do u not understand engrish
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:31 PM   #410
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

the funniest thing would have been if you both turned over J6o... heads would have exploded.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:38 PM   #411
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

ok here is my side - this is y i make teh big bux (no joke here)

weak player that sees monsters under teh bed opens for 15, fool calls, cush calls, 2 more call. I has J6 sooted I squeeze.

as I figured weak player sigh folds

Moran calls - I assume he is set mining here and will fold to strong c -bet

cush shoves - ok what is he shoving with??

well...I promise it is not JJ+ - - He 3 bets this all day long b/c he does not want a cascade of cawlers - I actually think he 3 bets TT here a decent % of the time

it is not AK and not likely AQ - same as above (doesnt really matter though cuz I am still getting right price to cawl sooo its moot but I like to think of every thang) (if AJ congrats u got me dominated)

so what is left 22-99/TT

more weighted to 55-99

u know what my equity is v that range (hint: stove it and get back to me)

I know when I reshove for 200 more -moran that called initial raise and my 3 bet to 90 folds and I b freezin out his equity

sooo I am riding the variance train on this one. Squeeze went wrong but based on equity and odds I had to go with it. If moran does not call teh 90 I let it go.

This thought process which is beyond the scope of so many is the precise reason why I stomp this game for north of 50$/hr

I like and respect cushes play - we have had numerous conversations about lines and alternative lines - so I know that he knows that I know what he and I are both thinking

It is also y I am alowed to breed and get laid on a regla basis


point of story - dont hate....appreciate!
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:30 PM   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face View Post
ok here is my side - this is y i make teh big bux (no joke here)

weak player that sees monsters under teh bed opens for 15, fool calls, cush calls, 2 more call. I has J6 sooted I squeeze.

as I figured weak player sigh folds

Moran calls - I assume he is set mining here and will fold to strong c -bet

cush shoves - ok what is he shoving with??

well...I promise it is not JJ+ - - He 3 bets this all day long b/c he does not want a cascade of cawlers - I actually think he 3 bets TT here a decent % of the time

it is not AK and not likely AQ - same as above (doesnt really matter though cuz I am still getting right price to cawl sooo its moot but I like to think of every thang) (if AJ congrats u got me dominated)

so what is left 22-99/TT

more weighted to 55-99

u know what my equity is v that range (hint: stove it and get back to me)

I know when I reshove for 200 more -moran that called initial raise and my 3 bet to 90 folds and I b freezin out his equity

sooo I am riding the variance train on this one. Squeeze went wrong but based on equity and odds I had to go with it. If moran does not call teh 90 I let it go.

This thought process which is beyond the scope of so many is the precise reason why I stomp this game for north of 50$/hr

I like and respect cushes play - we have had numerous conversations about lines and alternative lines - so I know that he knows that I know what he and I are both thinking

It is also y I am alowed to breed and get laid on a regla basis


point of story - dont hate....appreciate!
Awesome post, Squid!

I met Walt on my recent LV trip and he is the real deal fo' sho'.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:08 PM   #413
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face View Post
ok here is my side - this is y i make teh big bux (no joke here)

weak player that sees monsters under teh bed opens for 15, fool calls, cush calls, 2 more call. I has J6 sooted I squeeze.

as I figured weak player sigh folds

Moran calls - I assume he is set mining here and will fold to strong c -bet

cush shoves - ok what is he shoving with??

well...I promise it is not JJ+ - - He 3 bets this all day long b/c he does not want a cascade of cawlers - I actually think he 3 bets TT here a decent % of the time

it is not AK and not likely AQ - same as above (doesnt really matter though cuz I am still getting right price to cawl sooo its moot but I like to think of every thang) (if AJ congrats u got me dominated)

so what is left 22-99/TT

more weighted to 55-99

u know what my equity is v that range (hint: stove it and get back to me)

I know when I reshove for 200 more -moran that called initial raise and my 3 bet to 90 folds and I b freezin out his equity

sooo I am riding the variance train on this one. Squeeze went wrong but based on equity and odds I had to go with it. If moran does not call teh 90 I let it go.

This thought process which is beyond the scope of so many is the precise reason why I stomp this game for north of 50$/hr

I like and respect cushes play - we have had numerous conversations about lines and alternative lines - so I know that he knows that I know what he and I are both thinking

It is also y I am alowed to breed and get laid on a regla basis


point of story - dont hate....appreciate!
LOL live poker. The re shove with J6s is genuinely terrible, however you try and justify it.

Whats funny is that you point out his range is mostly mid pairs - all of which you are a 2-1 dog against, and with your price is 1.75-1, its not even that close - especially considering that this range also assumes (albeit fairly), that the cold calling guy folds, and cushlash hasn't flatted to re ship JJ+.

Man i wish you played in my full ring games on stars!
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:30 PM   #414
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

and that is the difference between the two disciplines.

Knowing the difference is the first step.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:56 PM   #415
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

77-1010, with some combos of AK/AQ I think is a pretty accurate range there. I expect taylor to have 77-1010 a lot here, promise I'm not being results oriented. Adding 22-66 to cush's range is a little bit optimistic and incorrect imo.

The problem with this is that the few times the caller enters the pot with jj/qq you are completely screwed squid. Reshoving 700$ or whatever looks super strong cause your line is 3b/5b (doesn't get much stronger) but the small times he looks it up is going to make this unprofitable.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 33.986% 33.74% 00.24% 27732184 200767.50 { Jh6h }
Hand 1: 66.014% 65.77% 00.24% 54056873 200767.50 { TT-77, AcKc, AsKs, AQs, AdKc, AhKc, AhKd, AsKc, AsKd, AsKh, AQo }

Pulled out half combos of AK.

2-1 dog

6 calls of 15$ = 90 + your 90 squeeze = 180 + guy calls 75 more = 255 + cush shove 500 more = 755

Assuming this weak tight guy folds to your reshove 100% of the time (he probably doesn't but you play with him and I don't)

Your calling 500 to win 755 which is obviously better than 2-1 so it's profitable.

This is also assuming cush never has jacks here, which I think he does sometimes.

Super high variance (j6s obv) but I really don't mind it. Completely agree with your point on ABC players not ever being able to comprehend this though. You have to be very specific with what both players have in this situation though.

fold pre
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:06 PM   #416
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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calling 500 to win 755 which is obviously better than 2-1 so it's profitable.


fold pre
?

I don't think so.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:37 PM   #417
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Whoops. best part is "obviously". I had to do something mid-post and came back and wrote that wrong, blame black ops 2.

It's less then 2-1 so its unprofitable and the range I gave cush is really favorable to squid considering this spot. This is a fold when he backraise ships even though he never has qq+.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:44 PM   #418
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR



you're golden, No Prob.

it happens to me all the time.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:25 PM   #419
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Your calling 500 to win 755 which is obviously better than 2-1 so it's profitable.
cush said "ship my $500 stack" not $500 on top

squid has $90 in there so call $410 to win $755

~1.8 to 1

no?
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:16 PM   #420
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Love the long-winded explanation AFTER the fact to justify it.

"I promise it's not JJ+"

"It is not AK or AQ"

Must be nice to be so awesome and get your stack in with 36% equity against a range of 5 hands you've plucked out of your arse.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:11 PM   #421
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Quote:
Originally Posted by EADGBE View Post
cush said "ship my $500 stack" not $500 on top

squid has $90 in there so call $410 to win $755

~1.8 to 1

no?
you need that hand to be good GREATER than 50%(@2 to 1) of the time you make that call in order for that to be a +EV play... if I am not mistaken, that is a hand with one over and a flush draw with approximately 32-33% equity, PRE FLOP... post flop that drops considerably to about 14-15%.

you play guitar EADGBE?

Last edited by MSchu18; 11-13-2012 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:16 PM   #422
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It was really nice to read a hand history with non-standard lines & to see both of your thought processes.

Good luck to you both.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:36 PM   #423
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Squid and Cush are two great players and their thinking in this hand is excellent and spot on, each knowing each other's lines perfectly.

As for me personally, I would have to fold to Cushs shove. Even though Squid is dead on with everything, at the end of the day I'm worried about calling with just J high and having no showdown value and having to hit the board to make my hand, in addition having another player behind me left to act.

But Squid has been crushing the game for years now, so you can't fault him for the play IMO.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:43 PM   #424
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Collusion
j/k
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:06 PM   #425
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

odds clearly not there for the j6 reshove, even assuming UTG folds 100% and is dead money. Making the assumption that UTG is incapable of flatting the 3bet with superpremiums is pretty bad too.
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