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Old 10-13-2012, 02:13 PM   #301
MSchu18
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I'd like to hear about some of the continuation betting thoughts you guys talked about... that can be a real source of a massive leak for some players.

I'm not a big fan of auto C/Betting without a plan or board texture considerations.
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Old 10-14-2012, 01:43 AM   #302
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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I'd like to hear about some of the continuation betting thoughts you guys talked about... that can be a real source of a massive leak for some players.

I'm not a big fan of auto C/Betting without a plan or board texture considerations.
happy to discuss irl but not on interwebz but can say i agree 100%
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:31 AM   #303
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I took yesterday off to watch football and was back at the felt today. I had a pretty good session, but the end sorta pissed me off even though it shouldn't, I'll discuss later. Started off pretty hot, stacking a shortstack's J9 with AA on a 9 high board. He had a flushdraw also but I held up. Then I hit a set of K's on a K72 board and got a full stack from 77.

After those hands I lost some back in a few pretty standard cbet spots that didn't work out. Still trying to figure these spots out and I still feel lost sometimes but I think I'm getting there. Then I lost some with QQ to squid. I raised to 20, he 3-bet to 65, I 4-bet to 170 and he shipped for 600. I folded and he would later tell me he had KK.

I built my stack back up a bit but again hit a cold run that dwindled it right back down. In what was going to be my last orbit I won a decent pot and was at my highest point since the initial surge. I was planning to leave when the big blind got to me but then, I guess just out of habit, when the blind got to me I put it in. I sat there looking at the red chip I had thrown in thinking, oh, I was gonna leave. I almost took it out before getting dealt cards and left but just decided to play another round.

In this last round I of course got into a tricky spot. I raised AQ to 25 after a limper and got 3 callers. The flop came QT9. It checked to me and I bet 75, getting one call from a passive semi-reg. The turn came the Q, my opponent checked and I bet 125. He looks at me and asks how much I have behind. I spread out my bills and he finally calls. The river came the 6. He now bet out 200 and I tanked. The flush got there, and when he wanted to know how much I had behind it really seemed like he was on the draw and wanted to see if he had the correct implied odds to call, since he didn't have the right price from the pot. I ended up making what I believe is the correct fold. I just don't see him check calling twice and suddenly donking out on the river with worse. Along with a couple other smaller pots, I lost about $300 in that last orbit and was pretty disgusted. I know I shouldn't be because I wasn't dead tired or anything and in the long run that last orbit is going to be profitable. And even though that last hand was tricky, I don't think I made any mistakes, it just didn't work out. I actually avoided shelling up and playing extremely weak-tight pre flop as I sometimes do when its my last orbit. So logically I shouldn't be mad at all. But I still am even though I know its irrational. I wasn't even going to post tonight but I decided to just in hope that writing this down would make me feel better and stop being results oriented. Hopefully I don't sound too much like a whiny little *****.

Thanks for reading.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:19 AM   #304
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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. So logically I shouldn't be mad at all. But I still am even though I know its irrational. I wasn't even going to post tonight but I decided to just in hope that writing this down would make me feel better and stop being results oriented.
this will drive you crazy forever - It still bugs the hell out of me. Had it happen a few weeks ago - 1 last orbit and I drop a g-note. The funny thing is I know I have done the 1 last orbit and had a nice little upswing but that never really sticks in my memory the way that losing seems to.
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:32 AM   #305
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

you did very well today Squidly... nice playing with you and I was happy we stayed out of each others way.(that's the way it should be)
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:34 AM   #306
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

More 2/5nl the last couple days. I've had a couple fairly successful sessions and I think I'm starting to get a much better grasp on those cbet spots after making them my main focus for the last few sessions. Yesterday started out fairly well as I turned a flush and got stacks in against villain's two pair. I also got into a ton of cbet spots and variance was making it easy because I kept getting A+ boards for c betting and double barreling (733, T52, etc.). For several orbits I was taking down pretty much every pot I came into preflop. After taking a dinner break I came back to a table that literally had 0 competent players at it. Its kinda funny how on Friday nights I might be in a horrible game and I look around and don't see any really good games even though there are 5 running but on a Monday evening there are only two games running and not a good reg in sight. I ended up playing well but lost a huge pot against one of the bad regs when he called a bet of 185 into a pot of 325 on the turn with 56 and tripped up on the river to beat my AQ on a Q67J6 board. I ended up paying off a small bet on the river because I though he was bluffing his missed flush or straight draw. Maybe should fold but his turn call is horrendous even if he gets a bet from me on the river. Because of this hand I ended up losing some back in this session but still a profitable day overall.

Today was much more up and down but there was only one hand that was questionable. I chose to call instead of 3bet preflop with JJ against a decent reg's middle position raise. I think 100bbs deep its an auto 3-bet but we were 200bbs deep so I think its closer. Other than this hand I played really well and again felt like I had good command of cbet spots. There was about an hour span after I got moved to the main game that I had a great winning image which allowed me to take down some pots when I missed. Its always good to have rushes like that but it never lasts too long. From there I fluctuated a bunch just from losing a few small pots, then winning a few, and back again. At the end of the night I stacked a short stack with QQ on a T42 board and got some value in one other hand, ending with a solid profit.

The last few days I have felt much more confident with my game and I think my game has made some huge strides since going back to holdem. I still have a ways to go but in the last 6 weeks or so I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere whereas for most of the summer I was kinda stuck in one place while I got used to actually being a full time poker player.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:48 PM   #307
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Good to hear your doing well and feel like your making improvements. I'm in kind a rut where my winrate has basically flat-lined and I don't feel as though I'm improving anymore. It sucks.

Noticing yourself picking up on new things that you didn't pick up on previously is such a good feeling. Especially if you made a conscious effort to understand it, like you and better cbet/double barrel spots. When that happens to me it instantaneously makes me want to watch more videos/post strategy. On the flip side when your running bad and not reaping the benefits of new knowledge it almost makes you think that critical thinking is a waste of time.

Keep progressing and very good to hear your running well and staying comfortably afloat in Vegas. Live the dream! Will probably run into you this summer!
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:00 AM   #308
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Good to hear your doing well and feel like your making improvements. I'm in kind a rut where my winrate has basically flat-lined and I don't feel as though I'm improving anymore. It sucks.

Noticing yourself picking up on new things that you didn't pick up on previously is such a good feeling. Especially if you made a conscious effort to understand it, like you and better cbet/double barrel spots. When that happens to me it instantaneously makes me want to watch more videos/post strategy. On the flip side when your running bad and not reaping the benefits of new knowledge it almost makes you think that critical thinking is a waste of time.

Keep progressing and very good to hear your running well and staying comfortably afloat in Vegas. Live the dream! Will probably run into you this summer!
Thanks man, yea I definitely feel better about a lot of stuff now. Trying to not get into autopilot ruts like I have in the past. I wouldn't worry too much if your winrate is staying the same because iirc you have a damn good one. Mine since going back from PLO in Sept is decent but my overall 2/5 winrate is paltry. The way I look at it is I am still improving and plugging leaks so my winrate is constantly changing and I can't expect it to go up to 10bb/hr overall when during the first say 100 hours of it I was only maybe a 3bb/hr caliber player.

I've been following your thread as well, looks like your transitioning to being a tourney donk . Since reading your post I'm thinking about doing something similar with some low stakes tourneys to get a rep to allow me to sell some action for the Main Event, but we'll see. Definitely hit me up over the summer and if you want to discuss hands or anything I'm always down for a Skype session.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:38 PM   #309
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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you did very well today Squidly... nice playing with you and I was happy we stayed out of each others way.(that's the way it should be)
ty sir - a pleasure meeting you...currently enjoying a very nice heater
which is always fun!!
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:09 AM   #310
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I've usually been doing an update every other day but Wednesday's session was extremely boring so I decided to wait until 3 this time. Was really card dead and made most of my money on a bluff. I check-raised the flop against a decent player with air because I knew he would be c-betting 100% of the time. He called and I bombed the turn and took it down. Other than that nothing interesting happened and I booked a small win.

Yesterday I had a really good session. I won about 50bbs by just raising and cbetting and taking town every pot. One thing about live poker is that so many of the players are superstitious so once you win a few pots it allows you to steal so many more because people think you have the lucky seat or whatever and you can get away with a much higher frequency of bluffing. So that along with getting paid big on a flopped set made for a pretty big win. I of course got into a sticky spot with JJ. I've been messing around with JJ/TT type hands a lot lately, mostly figuring out in which spots I should be 3-betting them and some where it is better to flat. So in basically two different spots that were exactly the same (I was in BB and same guy opened and got 1 caller) I flatted once and 3 bet the other. The first time it ended up getting checked down on a K high board and the pre-flop raiser won with QJ having hit a Q. The time I 3 bet I got called by the caller of the first raise and the flop came AKQ with two clubs and I checked and ended up check/folding a 9 on the turn.

Today I got into one of these spots right away and I laughed because on the drive over I was thinking about it again. I 3-bet, was called, and took it down with a cbet on a QQ2 flop. Still not sure what is optimal because I have some pros and cons to both flatting and 3 betting. Unfortunately the rest of my session was sorta bad. The flip side to being able to steal a lot when you are winning is that when losing, cbets almost never work because the superstitious (read: stupid) players think that you are just unlucky today and therefore cant have anything.

The start of my session was decent, took down some small pots and was feeling good, though my table wasn't great. Got set over set in a limped pot when 44<88 on a 843 flop. Luckily the guy was short and it didn't cost me much. Ended up stacking a short stack and was up a bit when my table change became available. This table was much better as I saw some deeper stacks and at least once known action player. About an orbit in I was dealt KK and made it 20 to go. A tight, fairly ABC older guy made it 50 behind me. I made it 150 and he smooth called after thinking for a while. I told myself if he 5-bet I was folding. The flop came 643, I bet about 2/3 pot, he shoved, I called and he took it down with AA. Pretty ****ty but not much I can do once he flats. He's gonna have QQ/JJ there plenty and I'm really surprised he didn't shove preflop because he's seen me call off a 5-bet with KK preflop (lost to AA ldo) and because of post-hand conversation I know he noticed it. After that I just could not win a pot. Got KK again a few hands later and an A flopped. the flop checked around and it checked to me on the turn so I fired a bet and got raised and had to fold. Also lost a pot where a guy called my cbet on a J87 flop with AT and the turn (J) and river (T) got checked down and he won against my AK. Pretty much exhibit A of "lol this guy's losing so he can't have anything, I call". It was basically two coolers that crushed me but sessions like this suck because it feels like theres nothing you can do. Still really happy with my play, just one of those days.

I've had an ok month so far but of my 7 losing sessions, 5 of them have been for >100bbs which has really killed me. Gonna be playing two more times before I leave for Wisconsin on Wednesday and I'm not sure if/how much I'll play when home so it will be a short month hours-wise.
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:58 AM   #311
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Just happened upon this thread, lot to read but wanted to give a shout out from a fellow Wisconsinite.. I grew up in Madison and left about three years ago.

Looking forward to more updates when you get back!
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:01 PM   #312
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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I've had an ok month so far but of my 7 losing sessions, 5 of them have been for >100bbs which has really killed me.
and therein lies the problem.
controlling those downward cycles is going to be critical going forward. are they poorly timed aggression?
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:08 PM   #313
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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and therein lies the problem.
controlling those downward cycles is going to be critical going forward. are they poorly timed aggression?
I don't think so, mostly just been being on the wrong side of variance I think. A few of the sessions have been where I start off losing and then just can't win a pot. I have made some mistakes but I wouldn't call any of them poorly timed aggression.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:47 PM   #314
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I am not saying that this is your issue Taylor, but I also see so many players unnecessarily bloating the pot as a prelude to a big draw or as a bluff. this "bloated pot syndrome" can lead to those stack crippling sessions where it seems you just can not get any traction and is usually a tell tail sign of overly, or poorly timed, aggression.
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:24 PM   #315
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

The KK vs AA hand......I guess the hesitation / thinking was good acting? (ie. the hesitation made u think it was a QQ/JJ).... b/c from your description, I for sure thought he had like QQ, or KK at best.....
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:03 PM   #316
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

still need that ride to the aero porto on wed taylor?
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:11 PM   #317
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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still need that ride to the aero porto on wed taylor?
pm'ed
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:02 AM   #318
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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pm'ed
Kinda random, when will you be at the airport? I have a flight out Wednesday as well, but leaving late at night.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:41 AM   #319
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I thought you were in so cal.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:14 PM   #320
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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I thought you were in so cal.
I am. Coming back today. Wednesday night I leave for Costa Rica for a week.
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:24 PM   #321
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Kinda random, when will you be at the airport? I have a flight out Wednesday as well, but leaving late at night.
in the AM
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:06 AM   #322
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Alright guys gonna be the last update until after my trip back home. Took off Saturday to watch football and got two last sessions in before I head back to Wisconsin. Yesterday went fairly well, made some good hands early but never really got paid and basically hovered just above even for a while. Ended up stacking a medium stack's QJ with KK on a Q high board. Later got some decent value with AQ on a A high board. Last major hand I of course got into another spot with JJ in a should-I-3bet-or-not scenario and ended up losing a bit back, but I think I played it well. Still booked a win and played longer than I was planning because I felt really good.

Today was good, but also merits some discussion. About an hour and a half into my session I was already up some after taking a medium stack on a QJ3 board with AQ. I raised it up with KQ from late position and got 3 calls. The flop came 9TJ. I bet, got a call, and then a short stack raised. I re-raised and ended up getting it all in with a guy who I had just barely covered. Short stack had AJ and big stack had JT and I held on to scoop a pretty big pot.

So thats great, but in the past when I get up really big early, I tend to play a bit scared as to not lose too much back. It only really affects me when I'm up more than I've ever won before in one session, but I still shouldn't let that happen because its important to get hours in and I don't like to leave early just to book wins. I really fought hard not to play anything differently based on how much I was up, and I think I did that even though I only lasted another 2 hours and so only played a total of 3.5 hours. I think I still played well and was not making plays based on keeping my win, but every time bets started to get significant, thoughts like "hope I don't lose this pot" and "if I lose this how much will I be up" started creeping in and I thought it was best to get up. I think the fact that it was gonna be my last session before going back home had something to do with it too, because I had been up this big once before and stuck around because that one action junkie guy was there and it didn't really affect me at all. In those last 2 hours I actually made a bit more and I discovered something interesting in my whole flat or 3bet experiment I've been doing lately.

I'm happy I was able to stay as long as I did after that hand and I think its something I just need to get use to. When I was playing 1/2 when I first started playing live I would get this sort of feeling when I was up as little as $200. At least for me, I think once I get used to being up that sort of money it doesn't affect me anymore, but the first time or two has a sort of "acclamation phase" if you will. Anyways still booked my biggest 2/5 win yet so I'm not gonna dwell on my decision to get up a bit early. Ended up getting a salad and some cake (yea I'm that guy) from Grand Lux to go and headed to my apt.

Taking tomorrow off to get packed and ready to go and then leaving for Wisconsin Wednesday morning. I haven't been in the state of Wisconsin for nearly 5 months, which is by far the longest I've ever been away by about 4.5 months, so I'm excited to be back for a while. I'll still probably be checking up on 2+2 a bit while I'm home but there won't be any major updates until I'm back in Vegas.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:19 AM   #323
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I feel you on the whole being up and not wanting to lose it... that is a huge defect of mine.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:38 AM   #324
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Look, if you don't want to get up because the game is good and you have the discipline to play your A game no matter how big your stack is, fine.

But poker isn't about 'hours.' If my boss came to me tomorrow and said 'I'll pay you the same salary, but you only have to work 4 hours a day instead of 8, I'd say 'hell yeah.'' If you are playing $2/$5, buy in for $500 and have $2K in front of you, if it makes you uncomfortable, leave. I have a hard time playing when I'm up 3 buyins or more. Usually at a $1/$2 game you have a huge stack compared to a bunch of small stacks, but sometimes you have someone else there with a $600 stack. I'm getting better. I stayed the other night and won a few hundred extra.

Remember: You are there to make money, to pay bills, to increase your bankroll. It's OK to leave a table up 3 buyins. It's also OK (especially in Vegas) to head down the street to another game.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:57 AM   #325
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

would be sooooo much better with pics
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