Hence why I said "I don't know what you get for that money."

Is there a fancy state-of-the-art gym? Fancy indoor, heated pools? Concierge? 24/7 security? Daily housekeeping? I don't know. I'm not saying I would pay $1600 to have that stuff, but if those things are included, it would be hard to get those sorts of things in a house.

Or hell, maybe it's even simpler than that - perhaps some people just want a place on the strip (or a block away, anyway), and are willing to pay $1600/mo to do so. In that case, the existence of single-family homes at the same price is irrelevant - you can't buy one of those on the strip.

This is a strange debate. There is no one right answer for whether someone should buy a condo or a house. In addition to the financial implications, a lot will depend on what type of lifestyle you want.

When my wife and I first moved to LV in 2010, I wanted to live in a high-rise on the Strip and she wanted a house in a regular neighborhood. Before committing ourselves, we decided to spend some time at MGM Signature to see if she could get adjusted to condo living. Ironically, at the end of our experiment, she was fine with MGM, but I thought it was too small a unit for full-time living. We ended up with a 2500 sq. ft. single family house 10 minutes off the Strip in Spanish Trail. In addition to its location only 5 miles from the Strip, we picked Spanish Trail because the HOA handles all exterior maintenance issues, including cutting the grass, pruning trees, painting your house, and even repairing or replacing your roof when necessary.

We've since moved to South Florida and now own both a SFH in the City of Miami as well as an oceanfront condo in a boutique high-rise condo on Miami Beach. We split our time between the two residences and have the best of both worlds. The condo HOA is roughly $1/sq. ft., which is about average down here for a so-called luxury building. That fee pays for amenities such as a gym, pool, spa, valet, cable tv, Internet, and 24hr reception desk, as well as infrastructure such as HVAC and elevators. It also pays for utilities such as water and trash, as well as property insurance including hurricane coverage. (And let me tell you, homeowners insurance is not cheap down here; I'm paying over $500/month on my SFH just for the insurance premium. And yes, that's $500/month, not a year.)

If (or more likely, when) we move back to LV, I'm pretty sure we'll end up in a high-rise on or near the Strip regardless of what the financial implications are. After all, the Strip would be the raison d'être for our move back to LV.

I thought the thread retro e-branding is hilarious, from Riots to Real Estate.

Orwell would be proud.

That is one of the buildings I have my eye on. When things get low enough in the next few years I'm going to most likely pounce on a condo in that building.

Do you mean that as a matter of HOA rules or as a something that you could not do. AFAIK there is nothing stopping you from making the MGM your primary residence.

Indeed, the HOA fees are pretty indefensible. No point in trying to make it pencil out but for some people, the convenience is worth it. The also vary quite a bit so it pays to shop around based on HOA fees. Most HOA fees have a long history behind them (e.g. how 2 buildings right next to each other ended up with drastically different fees), and it speaks volumes about how well the buildings are managed.

We have owned single family homes in neighborhoods with a HOA. We lined it out, had our attorney send them the revised = lined out version and gave them the choice to sign.

In all 4 cases the HOA signed and we were the only ones without a fee.

Condos on the other hand, never gonna swallow that pill and sign away their fees.

Really ? Are you sure the HOA agreed or did just your seller agree ?

Sounds too simple and a breach by the HOA of their agreement with the other owners in the development.

Pretty cool if it worked.... for you.

We required all to be signed by a majority of the HOA board members or the company administering before we would agree to the purchase.

It wasn't hard to do in the states we bought in FL, SC, MD, and CA. I think the most we paid for a lawyer to draft it and deal with it was $500.

None of the HOA's had any language in their bylaws or agreements stating they could not do it. That is the key. They seem to be written with the thought process that this is what we will do, period. But with no language legally binding the HOA to do it.

There are so many poorly drafted docs in so many types of businesses. You see it in so many areas of business. Companies draft policies and don't consult with an attorney because "they know their business." Then when the crap hits the fan they sit there with there mouth agape when their insurance carrier and lawyer show them the cost to defend and the cost to settle. They settle for far less than the defense would cost.

If only they would have worked with the attorney and paid $2,000 - $4,000...

How much was the HOA at Spanish Trail?

In my hometown the HOA's are part of the covenants, basically part of the title. I kind of doubt you could get yourself excluded. It would be nice if I could because I'm never going to use the clubhouse or pool or gym. I'm sure they would still say I'd be getting the benefits of the gated roads and they would want me to abide by all their ridiculous rules.

Trixie so you're saying you can buy a house in an HOA but not pay the HOA? What if they said no to your redlines? What did you redline out - the benefits too? I didn't know of this possibility.

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I don't remember exactly, but it was close to $500. There were actually two HOA fees; one for Spanish Trail itself (referred to as the master association) and one for the sub-association within Spanish Trail where you actually lived. The fees were something like $235 & $245, or $245 and $255, per month.


Of course not. Do you understand why that would not be possible?

It would be extremely difficult for the real estate agents to be selling MGM stuff as a full-time residence if people could not actually LIVE there full-time. And they would have to be doing something different than Trump and Palms (looked at both of those properties when I was doing the shopping last fall for a prospective property near the Strip). Never made it to the MGM due to time constraints, but they were clearly being marketed as a full-time residence albeit one that would also have an option to place into a rental pool if you were to leave for a while...

I've stayed in a studio at Signature. It wouldn't be maximum comfortable full time because the fridge is mini and so is the rest of the kitchen, but it's not like one would be suffering there. The worst part about it imo, is it's valet parking only. If you want to get something out of your car the valet has to bring it out.

That being said, if I lived in Vegas full time, I wouldn't want to be on the Strip. The majority of my time would NOT be spent in Strip casinos.

If they would have said no we would have bought elsewhere.

Yes we relined use of their pool and fitness center. None were in gated communities.

Uh, yes. What a strange question...

Uh, then why compose a statement that implies that they have a choice?

I think that the 20 minutes or so it takes to get to the Strip from the East or West to the Strip is time well traded for NOT living on the Strip. This is especially so at night. Even on weekends, you will be driving East- West, not up and down the Strip with tourist traffic.

(I can't speak to the horror of driving south, down from Summerlin, and then on the 15 to reach the Strip.

LV poker rooms have been opened for a little over 9 weeks now. Has anyone heard any stories or rumors of COVID cases that traced back to a poker room yet?

Since there isn't any 'tracing' being performed, no.

How did you like living in Spanish Trail? I've been thinking of purchasing a SFR there as an investment to later move into in a couple years. I've heard some stories of scorpion infested homes in Spanish Trail but others have told me no such thing.

I do like the close proximity to the strip while at the same time feeling like a time warp once you go through the gates. I do like the quietness and open feel.

I'm amazed that real estate in Vegas is increasing in value. One would think with the closing of Vegas pretty much, job loss (56M Americans lost their jobs), and the collapsing rental markets, 2 of 3 home owners not making housing payments, that real estate would decrease in value.

I am trying to purchase a home there, have been actively searching since Sept, 2019, and am blown away that prices, despite all the economic impacts of the pandemic, are still rising.

Any insight into Vegas housing in the next 6-12 months would be most appreciated.

dont buy unless you feel like going through foreclosure.

The insight is simple: don't do anything for 12 months. If the picture is the same in 12 months, then buy. But things are very likely to change over that time period.

It is indeed perplexing that prices still seem to be going up and the builders out here show zero signs of slowing down (or lowering prices).

But everything that is happening right now is very, very early in the macroeconomic cycle. Some of these effects take time to catch up and in 12 months we should (!!!) be talking about a completely different market.

Thank you for the very sound advice. Was set on living in Summerlin but now a 3 bed 1400 sq ft. house is 400K and up, without a pool, priced higher than pre-pandemic. Crazy. What drives those increases? I guess supply & demand and low interest rates.

I will try to find an article I read showing that the market is due for a huge collapse. Sad to say, that would indeed take a full year to mature.

I think often of all the poker employees and their families across the country, knowing they have no income and no prospects in the immediate future. I pray a vaccine is forthcoming quickly, not just for the future of live poker, but for all the families suffering through this pandemic.

I'm not 100% sure since it's perplexing to me too. On an anecdotal basis I can tell you that I was in contract to buy a new home from a builder in early February. I backed out after they wouldn't work with me on the price after it was clear that this thing was becoming more than just "a flu in China" on the news.

They told me they had two programs (1) was for people who actually caught covid and (2) the other was for people that were laid off from covid. In both cases, they were only deferring the closing date of the homes without penalty and nothing else. No price reductions, no changing loan terms, nothing. Keep in mind that I had a full-doc loan, more than enough income to support the loan and I was gainfully employed (I have no exposure to the Vegas job market and I work for a "too big to fail" type of company). So, in essence, they told me they were more willing to work with someone laid off than with someone that had a full-doc loan and paychecks coming in the door. How does that make sense?

To this point, there is another explanation I have heard that kinda makes sense. In the post-2008 economy, a ton of homes were bought up by corporations (think Berkshire Hathaway, et. al). So in many cases you are no longer buying from individuals and those companies would rather wait out the market than take a loss on any individual property. You want an opportunity to buy (what should be) a cheaper home, but they view it as a long term asset that is just going through a rough market. I think that explanation holds some water with some of the prices you see right now.

+1, very well said. Lots of suffering going on in the world right now (more than usual!) and some families are in a rough spot. I'm grateful for my current situation, it's a blessing, and I sympathize with all of the people hurting right now.

If someone is able to work from home, then the generally low cost of living and lack of State income tax could be a real inducement for some. Further, don't forget that there are still a lot of people in a cash-rich position that see housing in Nevada as extremely cheap, even at the current levels.

And while there are some not making payments for existing leases and mortgages, it is NOT two out of three if the actual mortgage data is to be believed. But even for those who are not making payments in a timely fashion, the various moratoriums make it a challenge to get a glut of houses onto the resale market in most areas of the nation. This is why prices in several areas are actually holding steady or even increasing.

Never discount the outflow of people who live in areas that don't have control of a community either...we know it has happened in New York because Cuomo is begging those with money to come back. Some of those places that lost control and are cutting budgets are going to wind up falling backwards...maybe not Detroit-level backwards, but those with the means to leave, WILL leave.