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Old 02-26-2019, 11:22 AM   #1
Suhlm2
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Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

Hello, I have been looking to make a real estate investment for the past few years and never could pull the trigger on a place here in Denver because I know I didn't want to live here longterm, but didn't know where else I'd want to live. This past year I've begun taking poker seriously and so Vegas has entered the picture.

From what I've gathered a few years ago was the best time to buy, but while It won't be "holy f'uc;k it went up how much!?!?!?" growth(shout out crypto 11/17) it still seems like a promising investment given the growth Vegas is seeing. So my tentative plan is to buy a 1-2 bedroom condo, live in it for a few years and sell when the time is right.

So my question to those who own/owned(or rented) in Panorama, Sky, MGM signature, One, or any building I'm missing is what your experience has been like. Happy with purchase, regret it, etc etc. I'm very interested in the negatives you have on the buildings. I want to make sure I'm not overlooking something really inconvenient that will cause regret later on.

If anyone has any other suggestions for where I should look around town or even other poker friendly cities I'm all ears. If this plan is retarded and I should save my $ I'm not too thick skinned to ignore your advice. I do have a realtor already in LV who will be showing me around next week so I don't necessarily need recommendations for realtors I should speak with. I'm looking for personal anecdotal opinions.

Last edited by Suhlm2; 02-26-2019 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 02-26-2019, 02:16 PM   #2
McMelchior
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

Good luck.

We did an extensive search six years ago, when Vegas real estate were still scraping rock bottom, placed several bids, but never reached closing.

The process taught us, that there is a separate market for Strip adjacent luxury condos, which does not follow the general market, but is more susceptible to rumors and fantasies about future trends.

Lately, for instance, asking prices for a number of these properties have increased, based on the imagination that proximity to the Raiders' stadium will drive appreciation. The only problem is, that there are no more than the usual number of buyers, and very little is actually moving.

Watch out for exorbitant HOA fees, increased cost of insurances, and upcoming HOA assessments caused by aging stock and shoddy construction.

We do not regret 'missing out' on the low market back in 2012/13 - unless we had chosen to renovate and flip, the appreciation would have covered no more than carrying costs.

Last edited by McMelchior; 02-26-2019 at 02:16 PM. Reason: How do you spell 'Raiders'?
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Old 02-26-2019, 02:28 PM   #3
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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Originally Posted by McMelchior View Post
Good luck.

We did an extensive search six years ago, when Vegas real estate were still scraping rock bottom, placed several bids, but never reached closing.

The process taught us, that there is a separate market for Strip adjacent luxury condos, which does not follow the general market, but is more susceptible to rumors and fantasies about future trends.

Lately, for instance, asking prices for a number of these properties have increased, based on the imagination that proximity to the Raiders' stadium will drive appreciation. The only problem is, that there are no more than the usual number of buyers, and very little is actually moving.

Watch out for exorbitant HOA fees, increased cost of insurances, and upcoming HOA assessments caused by aging stock and shoddy construction.

We do not regret 'missing out' on the low market back in 2012/13 - unless we had chosen to renovate and flip, the appreciation would have covered no more than carrying costs.
Wow I bought in 2015 at bottom in Laughlin and got 3 bed 2 bath for next to nothing and now I am looking for a cheap condo in Vegas. Thanks.
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Old 02-26-2019, 03:01 PM   #4
michelle227
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

Having been in the search phase off and on across the past year, make sure you look at the monthly fees. Property taxes are next to nothing on most of them (at least compared to what I have seen on certain Texas properties) but the monthly fees were outrageous.

I did not have MGM Signature in my search largely because I wanted to be able to fully furnish to my own taste and not be saddled with corporate cheapness and a one-size-fits-all look (I was not going to put it in the rental pool). I did have a couple at Panorama that I looked at in addition to Sky.

The monthly association fees tended to be in the $500-600/mo range for many of the properties. Some also had a quarterly fee. Make sure you review what you are getting hit with, and also what special expenses they anticipate in the next few years. Some fees are even larger...the MGM listings that came through the email today show $1,348 monthly on an 874 sq.ft. one BR/two bath unit...

What I would recommend before taking the plunge is to lease somewhere for three to six months. Do that at a couple of places that would be realistic purchase options. It will give you the feel for the property and let you know whether those fees are going to make things worth the purchase. I've actually put the brakes on purchasing and may simply lease as an additional residential option given that the lease on some of the properties is less than a mortgage would run. Then, when the next bubble burst occurs, be set to make a cash deal if anything good presents itself...
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:48 PM   #5
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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Old 02-26-2019, 07:04 PM   #6
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

why are you only considering luxury high rise condos near the strip?

there are a zillion condos in vegas.
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Old 02-26-2019, 07:39 PM   #7
mizzoulegend
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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Originally Posted by Suhlm2 View Post
Hello, I have been looking to make a real estate investment for the past few years and never could pull the trigger on a place here in Denver because I know I didn't want to live here longterm, but didn't know where else I'd want to live. This past year I've begun taking poker seriously and so Vegas has entered the picture.

From what I've gathered a few years ago was the best time to buy, but while It won't be "holy f'uc;k it went up how much!?!?!?" growth(shout out crypto 11/17) it still seems like a promising investment given the growth Vegas is seeing. So my tentative plan is to buy a 1-2 bedroom condo, live in it for a few years and sell when the time is right.

So my question to those who own/owned(or rented) in Panorama, Sky, MGM signature, One, or any building I'm missing is what your experience has been like. Happy with purchase, regret it, etc etc. I'm very interested in the negatives you have on the buildings. I want to make sure I'm not overlooking something really inconvenient that will cause regret later on.

If anyone has any other suggestions for where I should look around town or even other poker friendly cities I'm all ears. If this plan is retarded and I should save my $ I'm not too thick skinned to ignore your advice. I do have a realtor already in LV who will be showing me around next week so I don't necessarily need recommendations for realtors I should speak with. I'm looking for personal anecdotal opinions.
As someone who finances multifamily real estate for a living, if you are holding this property for under 36 months idon't recommend buying at this time. First, I don't think the market can be timed, or seasoned enough itself, to offset the fees in selling through appreciation. Meaning, you will lose money most likely. Second. we are planning for the recession to hit in 2021, and I believe the person who buys your place, if you can sell it, may be getting a distressed asset. Remember, its not just you selling, it will be the folks who cant afford to stay, and they will be setting your comps. I have multiple borrowers who spend millions on apartment complexes just waiting for the correction, so they can scoop up second homes in places like Hawaii or Vegas or Florida.
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Old 02-26-2019, 08:38 PM   #8
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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Originally Posted by michelle227 View Post
The monthly association fees tended to be in the $500-600/mo range for many of the properties. Some also had a quarterly fee. Make sure you review what you are getting hit with, and also what special expenses they anticipate in the next few years. Some fees are even larger...the MGM listings that came through the email today show $1,348 monthly on an 874 sq.ft. one BR/two bath unit...
Not sure why MGM Signature is that high, but I know they could save a decent amount of operating costs by getting rid of 2 of the pools that nobody ever uses anyway and half the elevators..

Iíve stayed there long term and except for weekends in June, it always feels empty in there. On weekdays, you can go to the gym and Starbucks in the morning and the majority of people you see are employees.
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why are you only considering luxury high rise condos near the strip?
Maybe thatís where he would like to live? If I ever decided to buy a condo in Vegas, I would probably do the same.
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Old 02-27-2019, 02:49 AM   #9
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

Buy at the Ogden.

Downtown Las Vegas.

East end of Fremont Street Experience.

Eight minute walk to the poker podium at the Golden Nugget.

AINEC.
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Old 02-27-2019, 04:48 AM   #10
Suhlm2
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

Wow thanks a lot guys, I really didn't have high hopes for getting a lot of thought out responses. So I really appreciate it.

michelle227:
The HOA fees definitely were a big surprise when the realtor(family friend) sent me the MLS link for some in my price range. MGM signature does indeed have $1300 MONTHLY fees. It seems like $600 would actually leave buyers thinking they got a good deal compared to what the bulk majority are charging. It's interesting how fees in the same devleopment vary. Seems like it would be a base per bedroom. But I found a few in the 400ish range but they pretty accurately reflected the quality of the unit. I don't see how these HOA's aren't going to eat up a large chunk of the profit I'd make selling in say 2022. I really like your suggestion on renting for a few months to see if I would even enjoy living there. The issue is some of the HOA's have banned subleases and short term rentals, but im sure ill be able to find something. I was planning on staying at Air bnb's during the month of March in buildings that was an option. I was intrigued by MGM Sig until i saw the 1300 HOA and thats just not worth it for me. MY Jewish ancestors wouldn't approve.

McMelchior very good points you've made. Thank you. It does seem silly to be basing property values going up on a football stadium being put in. If anything it would be very annoying and loud for the entirety of the time I'm living there with construction and a bunch of inconveniences. As someone who gets inconvenienced by the slightest obstruction to my plan/day I don't see this going well.

mizzoulegend thanks for your input. I PM'd you and if you've got some spare time to chat I'd love to get more insight on what you're saying. I'm 27 and have limited experience or knowledge in this realm and would greatly appreciate hearing what you have to say.
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Old 02-27-2019, 04:56 AM   #11
Suhlm2
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

So, if high rise condo is out, where else should I look? I really do like it not being in a house I'd have to do a lot of upkeep and homeowner stuff. I travel a lot right now too and so maintaining a condo is much easier than an entire single structure home. Duplex/townhome could be a possibility though. I hear people mention Henderson and Summerlin quite often. Anything in these areas you'd recommend as far as condo type developments?

What are some other poker friendly cities that housing prices are still somewhat reasonable. I liked that these units were 400k and under.(the unit I liked the most from MLS was 320). Compared to what 400k would get you in most places thats amazing. But I'm also basing this off minimal research and facts and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm incorrect and a lot of cities out there you'd find a cool spot for 400.
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Old 02-27-2019, 06:11 AM   #12
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

Considering selling costs and HOA fees, you have virtually no chance of breaking even in 5 years in a condo. You MIGHT make a little in a house with no HOA, if housing inflation was steady.

If you want to spend 400k you could likely find something in SoCal because the cardrooms are near the ghetto. In NorCal bay area you could find something for 400k but it would be in the ghetto or 50 miles out of town. Sacramento has a few cardrooms and housing is cheap, but nothing else is. A house in Phoenix can be had for <400k.
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Old 02-27-2019, 09:13 AM   #13
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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Originally Posted by mizzoulegend View Post
As someone who finances multifamily real estate for a living, if you are holding this property for under 36 months idon't recommend buying at this time. First, I don't think the market can be timed, or seasoned enough itself, to offset the fees in selling through appreciation. Meaning, you will lose money most likely. Second. we are planning for the recession to hit in 2021, and I believe the person who buys your place, if you can sell it, may be getting a distressed asset. Remember, its not just you selling, it will be the folks who cant afford to stay, and they will be setting your comps. I have multiple borrowers who spend millions on apartment complexes just waiting for the correction, so they can scoop up second homes in places like Hawaii or Vegas or Florida.
Hi Mizzou,
Any good reads you recommend about the coming recession? The DO and DONT before and during?
Not that I am looking to purhcase in Vegas - I just stumbled on that post. I do have a property and a mortgage in Boston though.
Thanks.
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Old 02-27-2019, 09:23 AM   #14
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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Originally Posted by Suhlm2 View Post
So, if high rise condo is out, where else should I look? I really do like it not being in a house I'd have to do a lot of upkeep and homeowner stuff. I travel a lot right now too and so maintaining a condo is much easier than an entire single structure home. Duplex/townhome could be a possibility though. I hear people mention Henderson and Summerlin quite often. Anything in these areas you'd recommend as far as condo type developments?

What are some other poker friendly cities that housing prices are still somewhat reasonable. I liked that these units were 400k and under.(the unit I liked the most from MLS was 320). Compared to what 400k would get you in most places thats amazing. But I'm also basing this off minimal research and facts and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm incorrect and a lot of cities out there you'd find a cool spot for 400.


For Henderson and Summerlin, you may be able to buy 2 pretty nice condo units for 400K; and you can play poker at GVR, Redrock, Southpoint that are not on the Strip. However, I also have the view that itís not a good time for investment properties in LV; lots of supplies IMO.




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Old 02-27-2019, 09:24 AM   #15
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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Originally Posted by mizzoulegend View Post
As someone who finances multifamily real estate for a living, if you are holding this property for under 36 months idon't recommend buying at this time. First, I don't think the market can be timed, or seasoned enough itself, to offset the fees in selling through appreciation. Meaning, you will lose money most likely. Second. we are planning for the recession to hit in 2021, and I believe the person who buys your place, if you can sell it, may be getting a distressed asset. Remember, its not just you selling, it will be the folks who cant afford to stay, and they will be setting your comps. I have multiple borrowers who spend millions on apartment complexes just waiting for the correction, so they can scoop up second homes in places like Hawaii or Vegas or Florida.
Huh? Nobody can time the market. Housing market, stock market, economy...it doesn't matter. It cant be timed. That includes knowing when a recession is coming.
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:52 AM   #16
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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Huh? Nobody can time the market. Housing market, stock market, economy...it doesn't matter. It cant be timed.
That statement is only true in the theoretical model of markets with complete information where a single player doesnít have the capability of moving the needle.

Thatís not how the real world works. For example, thereís a person in this country who could crash stock markets all over the world with the push of a single button.

There are obviously models to predict when a recession hits based on inputs that might or might not be public knowledge. How good/reliable those models are is a totally different question.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:42 PM   #17
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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Huh? Nobody can time the market. Housing market, stock market, economy...it doesn't matter. It cant be timed. That includes knowing when a recession is coming.


I agree no one can accurately time every market, and told him he canít. However, major investors do a much better job adding value and getting out before corrections. They may leave a little on the table, but they rarely get burned.

I didnít say we knew when the recession was coming. I said we are planning on it coming in 2021. Thatís prudent. It may come sooner, it may not come at all. But preparing for it and making sure borrowers are safe in that timeframe is prudent. The last thing you want is another 2009 when the lending world fell off the cliff and debt was unavailable. Itís better to grab long term debt now, than have no access in three years.

OP- I will answer your PM when I get to my laptop. Iím not an expert on your side of the business, as we focus on multi family, but I would echo many of the things other replies have stated Iím sure


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Old 02-27-2019, 01:48 PM   #18
michelle227
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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Originally Posted by augie_ View Post
why are you only considering luxury high rise condos near the strip?

there are a zillion condos in vegas.
Won't presume to speak for OP, but I know that part of my consideration was that I preferred to not have to drive when I wanted to play poker. I will probably still have a couple of the cars out there if/when I purchase, but I still prefer walking the short distance as opposed to driving from the outlying areas.

And, I was looking specifically for the high-rise element as opposed to some little three or four story complex that tends to be the norm once you got off of the Strip.

However, my search was for something that would not have been a primary residence. If it was a truly permanent move that would see me sell the Texas homes, then the calculus would be different...but that would also likely have resulted in a shift into looking at houses instead of a condo.
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Old 02-27-2019, 06:17 PM   #19
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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Huh? Nobody can time the market. Housing market, stock market, economy...it doesn't matter. It cant be timed. That includes knowing when a recession is coming.
People that say that just don't know how to time markets. Plenty of people can time them well enough to get rich. Maybe not to the day or even week, but close enough that it matters.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:12 PM   #20
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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People that say that just don't know how to time markets. Plenty of people can time them well enough to get rich. Maybe not to the day or even week, but close enough that it matters.
lol
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Old 03-03-2019, 09:57 AM   #21
Suhlm2
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

So my focus has now shifted to Summerlin or Henderson, where I've come across some pretty cool ones for what seems like pennies compared to here in Denver. What are some of the things each is known for from locals point of view
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Old 03-03-2019, 09:58 AM   #22
Suhlm2
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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Originally Posted by Nozsr View Post
Buy at the Ogden.

Downtown Las Vegas.

East end of Fremont Street Experience.

Eight minute walk to the poker podium at the Golden Nugget.

AINEC.
Thanks I'll look into it. I missed this somehow my first time through but I appreciate the rec
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:38 AM   #23
Gzesh
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

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So my focus has now shifted to Summerlin or Henderson, where I've come across some pretty cool ones for what seems like pennies compared to here in Denver. What are some of the things each is known for from locals point of view
The comparison is between Summerlin and Green Valley, as opposed to the City of Henderson generally. (Green Valley is a 30 year old master development area within Henderson, but living apart from industrial Henderson.) Generally speaking, look at each but there are more similarities than differences.

I can't speak too knowledgeably about Summerlin, but I've had a residence in Green Valley for 25+ years.

Poker in Green Valley is pretty limited to Green Valley Ranch. OTOH, it is NOT a difficult drive to places to play on the Strip, if you know good routes. At night, it is pretty easy going, and wide open going back.

Green Valley is a nice, pretty suburban-type place to live. Its strong suit is stand-alone single family houses, not urban condo living. If you want a nice house, in a good neighborhood where you can chill by your pool when not playing poker, GV is an excellent choice. The Strip is generally about 15 - 20 minutes away.

Shopping, restaurants, services seem pretty much a mirror of Summerlin's offerings. Pretty much each has the same branded stores, higher end chain restaurants available. There is a different "non-chain" restaurant scene just outside Green Valley, don't know about Summerlin.

Summerlin has the mountains to the west, Green Valley has the Lake Mead recreation area. Both have extensive parks. Summerlin relies on the County for public services, Henderson provides police and fire services to GV.
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:56 AM   #24
Bdywax
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

Personally I would stay away from real estate investments at the moment. As said, there will most likely be a recession within the next few years. There’s no telling how big it will be, but that’s a variable I would wait for. I personally would not invest in Vegas, but it also depends on what your planning to do with the property when you’re not using it. Have you done any research on occupancy rates on properties you’re looking at year over year?
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:57 AM   #25
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Re: Buying Condo in Vegas, looking for rec's

Oh yeah, why do you want to leave Denver? Damn I miss living there.
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