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Old 03-07-2019, 05:36 PM   #26
eco74
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

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Originally Posted by drbeechwood View Post
Can we turn this into a craps strategy thread? Or is that too much of a hijack? Just curious about people's betting strategies. Always max odds on points? Come bets? Placing 8 and the 8? when to press the bets vs. taking money off the table. Dice setting. Totally worthless?
- Pass line plus full odds

- Place bets (start typically with two of them, expand accordingly). Start pressing after making a point

- If I'm feeling profligate I'll do come bets plus full odds instead of place bets

- Only bet hardways if doing two-way bets, which means I'm winning

- Dice setting is for children
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:14 PM   #27
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

If we don't mind the derail...

I have two styles. Big risk/big reward vs slow-n-steady. Generally speaking, s-n-s is how I usually play, pass-line, usually only 2x odds, sometimes only 1x odds even, and place the 6 and 8. If I hit a point or two, I'll expand to placing 'inside' (5,6,8,9), and press the 6/8 after I've been paid once or twice. Boring craps, minimal losses, hopefully quick cocktail service (when in Vegas). If I have already hit a point or two, I might max odds, if I'm playing with casino money.

BR/BR I'll do pass-line, max odds, come+max odds. Bigger variance, of course. How it works in reality, set the point, hit a couple of other points (or my favorite, all of them but the point, maybe with a couple of craps also so I lose the come bet, too), then 7-out. Nothing ever seems to pay, and I end up losing my BR in short fashion. I just don't have the roll for this, ever, so I hardly ever play this way anymore.

If the point is 6 or 8, I'll almost always add a corresponding hard-ways (one of my outs is 3/3 or 4/4, so why not bet it?), and if I'm feeling frisky, I'll go two-ways (for the boys) on it.
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:34 PM   #28
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

I usually do pass line, full odds (up to 5x), place the 6 and 8, move it to a different number if 6 or 8 is the point. Sometimes I do come bets with full odds, and try to get full odds on the 6 or 8 on either a pass line or come bet. If I get three numbers with full odds I feel like I have a chance. Is that the "three-point molly"? I don't bet hard ways, yo, etc, and no field bets.
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:36 PM   #29
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

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I just don't have the roll for this, ever, so I hardly ever play this way anymore.
I wonder what is the roll needed. It's a big difference between full odds at a $5 vs. $15 table. I try not to play more than $10 tables, but those are hard to find on the strip, especially on a weekend night. Would like to agree with whoever said Cromwell is a fun place for craps.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:43 PM   #30
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

If you want a fun strategy, go power pressing mode. $6 6 or 8 hits throw in a nickel and go to $18 then hits again throw in $3 go to $42, hits again throw in another nickel and youíre at $96 then throw in $2 and youíre at $210 and from here you go to $450. You can take a hit to recoup your initial investment at any point, but this is fun as it beats the press it 1 unit option.


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Old 03-08-2019, 12:37 AM   #31
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Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

I like playing low limit tables, $3 or $5. If at a $5 table I play pass line with 3x, 4x 5x odds. At a $3 table I play max odds up to 10x. I place the 6 and 8 for $3 at a $3 if they pay with $0.50 pieces otherwise I Place both for $6. First hit on the 6 and 8 I I press the bet and collect my $1 or $0.50 after that I keep going up a unit until the dreaded 7. After the 2nd point I start maxing odds on my Place bet and and let out a a couple come bets. I replace my come bets as they hit.

Craps is the devil, low house edge but HUGE VARIANCE.
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:20 PM   #32
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

The worst part about craps - if you're playing it the right way - is that your last roll at the table will always be a loser ("if I'd only have left one roll sooner...")
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:21 PM   #33
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

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The worst part about craps - if you're playing it the right way - is that your last roll at the table will always be a loser ("if I'd only have left one roll sooner...")
Sure, but the BEST part about craps is that usually if one person wins, the whole table wins (except for the dark side bettors). It's so much more fun than poker where if you win, everyone else loses, and everyone is trying to take everyone else's money, instead of everyone vs. the house.
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:23 PM   #34
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

Completely agree
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:31 PM   #35
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

My understanding is that dice setting is only helpful for a very small percentage of people who have done a ton of practice and can control the throw. Assuming you are not controlling the throw, setting the dice doesn't mean anything.

Not sure what there is to say about strategy beyond the fact that anything other than don't pass laying full odds is suboptimal, and that you should always keep your come bet odds "on" during the come-out roll. The latter is not the default, so you need to ask for it. Unless you are taking rated play into consideration, come bets are always >ev than place bets, so I don't really see the point of place bets.

I think your question is more one of "approach." I bet pass line with full odds, and then I make one or more come bets, depending on how I am running. Not based on superstition and the idea that the table is "hot," rather if I am running poorly, I will usually only make one come bet to reduce variance. Sometimes no come bets if I am really trying to slow down.
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Old 03-09-2019, 09:45 PM   #36
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

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Craps is the devil, low house edge but HUGE VARIANCE.
don't play such high odds.

house will have same edge (measured in dollars/cents), and you have way less variance.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:41 PM   #37
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

What’s the minimum you all bring to the table if your playing $10 min 3-4-5 taking the full odds? How much more if your planning to also bet something like 6 or 8?
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Old 03-10-2019, 08:29 AM   #38
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

Assuming you make 1 come bet, you are putting an average of $100 on the table, nothing wrong with walking up with $100 or $200 ~ but obv 1 or 2 bad rolls and you are done.

Sometimes I will place the 6 and 8 to start with and a come bet, if the 6 or 8 hits, you can ask the dealer "down with $25 odds" and while it is not max odds, you are more likely to get a bit of time at the table for it, building up odds if you hit a couple of payoffs.

More likely after a few beers, I'll just bet everything in sight and press my nuts off.
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:12 PM   #39
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

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Whatís the minimum you all bring to the table if your playing $10 min 3-4-5 taking the full odds? How much more if your planning to also bet something like 6 or 8?
As much as I'm willing to lose! Usually I buy in for $200 and hope to run it up, won't usually drop more than $500 per session. And I'm sure I'm under rolled for a $10 table but that's my usual.
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:46 PM   #40
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

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don't play such high odds.

house will have same edge (measured in dollars/cents), and you have way less variance.
It's a small amount, but the above is not true. The lower your odds bet the higher the house edge on your total bet.
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:53 PM   #41
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

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It's a small amount, but the above is not true. The lower your odds bet the higher the house edge on your total bet.
The house edge as percent of money wagered will be be higher, but absolute $ house edge will stay the same.

If you have an X hour session only betting the pass line for 10 dollars vs pass line plus taking full odds each time you will have the exact same EV for total $ lost which is the more important measure to a recreational player who is under rolled and wants to prolong play.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:18 PM   #42
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

Here is how I played for years on a $10 table that netted me plenty of time at the table and plenty of fun joking around with dealers I came to know. Of course, there was the random stranger who just couldn't tolerate the don't player so, be aware of that.

$10 Don't Pass bet with $30 odds when the come out roll is 5,6,8,9 and just let the bet resolve one way or the other. When the come out roll was 4 or 10 I would lay $40 odds against and also place bet the 6 and 8 for $18 each. If the 4/10 gets hit and my Don't Pass loses I immediately pick up my bets on the 6 and 8 and start over. If the 4/10 hasn't been hit I do the following:

On the first hit of 6/8 I would drop the dealer $3 and tell them to press me to $30 each ($18 bet pays $21 and I'm pressing each bet $12 thus dropping the $3).

On the second hit of 6/8 I drop the dealer $1 and tell him to go to $48 each (you can do the math this time).

I now increase my DP odds to $60 giving me $110 of my money on the layout ($36 invested in 6/8, $4 pressing 6/8, $10 DP, $60 DP odds, but I won't lose it all because one of the following happens:
  • 7-out, I collect $110 from my Don't pass bet and break even on the roll.
  • The 4/10 gets hit and I take down my 6/8 bets for a loss of $14.
  • The 6/8 gets hit and I collect $54 and take down my 6/8 bets and reduce my DP odds to my standard $30. I just won/picked up $180 with $40 at risk on the table and the following could happen.

1. 4/10 gets hit for a total win of $65

2. 7-Out for a total win of $130


This seems like a lot to follow, but it really isn't. Basically you are playing regular DP on 5,6,8,9 and on the 4/10 you add in the 6/8 place bets hoping to hit them a combined three times before 7-out or hitting the 4/10.

On each toss of the dice there are six ways to throw the 7 and three ways to throw the 4/10 and ten ways to throw either 6/8. We have a 50/50 chance of winning the 6/8 bet compared to either of the other 2 resolutions that end our action (16 combinations are meaningless to us).

You can of course adjust the number of times you want to hit the 6/8 before taking them down. The next press would be to $60 each and it's been my experience the dice don't want me to win that much and thus put a stop to the action at this point.

YMMV.

Last edited by Pensfan; 03-10-2019 at 03:23 PM. Reason: It's been a while since I played so my math could need questioning.
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:16 PM   #43
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

Not bad, but make sure you get paid $56 on your $48 bet.

I've tinkered with little systems like this, and they do ensure a bit more manageable play, right up until the alcohol works its magic.
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:36 PM   #44
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

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Not bad, but make sure you get paid $56 on your $48 bet.

I've tinkered with little systems like this, and they do ensure a bit more manageable play, right up until the alcohol works its magic.
You are correct on the $56, thanks. Like I put in the edit box, it's been a while since I've played on a regular basis so my math is certainly in question.

Like any other "system" it works great, until it doesn't.
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:51 PM   #45
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

Until a 6 or 8 is hit once, and you get picked off.


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Old 03-11-2019, 08:15 AM   #46
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

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Until a 6 or 8 is hit once, and you get picked off.


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What do you mean by "picked off"? The 4/10 getting hit? If that happens and the 6/8 was hit once I just take down my 6/8 bets and have an overall loss less than if the 5,6,8,9 were hit. I still "win" the $21 from the 6/8 hit, just because I pressed them doesn't mean it still isn't my money when I take the bets down.

If you mean 7-out then I lose the $37 I have on the 6/8 but win the $30 form my DP+odds bet for a loss of $7.

Again, I know I called it a "system", but in reality it's just another way of playing a game with a negative EV and in the long run we lose money, for sure.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:37 AM   #47
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

For sure you can't make a series of -EV bets and turn them into +EV situations. Your system is perfectly reasonable in that is designed to make sure you don't get wiped out in a flash, nothing wrong with that.

I fly in from UK, and just like I didn't fly 5k miles to fold a marginal poker hand, I didn't fly all that way to watch loads of numbers coming up with nothing on them I don't mind giving action, because I want the action ~ it is fun on a heater. However, all the prop bets in US payoff worse than they do in the UK, so I struggle to back those with much enthusiasm. There's giving action... and there's giving it away. That said, $1 juice on $25 when you buy the 4 and 10 is very fair (Uk pays out 47.50 rather than 49) so I usually find myself pressing those quite hard. $25 on the 4 and 10, if either hits, $1 in press them both, if either hits again, $2 in and both look like $100 each. What happens next depends largely on how things are going
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:53 PM   #48
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

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What do you mean by "picked off"? The 4/10 getting hit? If that happens and the 6/8 was hit once I just take down my 6/8 bets and have an overall loss less than if the 5,6,8,9 were hit. I still "win" the $21 from the 6/8 hit, just because I pressed them doesn't mean it still isn't my money when I take the bets down.



If you mean 7-out then I lose the $37 I have on the 6/8 but win the $30 form my DP+odds bet for a loss of $7.



Again, I know I called it a "system", but in reality it's just another way of playing a game with a negative EV and in the long run we lose money, for sure.

Sadly, the demise to your system and donít players alone are the come out 7ís UNLESS youíre taking full odds.


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Old 03-12-2019, 07:53 AM   #49
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

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Sadly, the demise to your system and donít players alone are the come out 7ís UNLESS youíre taking full odds.


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If that is really your concern then play the Pass and Don't pass and only take odds against the Don't Pass once a point is established. I think you give up more value like that than just riding out the come out 7/11's, though I haven't done the math so maybe not.

I admit to having done that once the shooter throws two come out winners in a row. I know the odds on the next throw are the same as the previous throws, but mentally I just don't like that one shooter gets me for $60 or $70 on come out tosses when my session wins/losses are likely $100 or less.

Again, it's a negative EV game and no system is going to change the house edge even the slightest, but finding a fun way to extend my time at the table while minimizing losses is my goal and the above did just that for quite a long time.

Even now when I'm in Vegas and the trip bankroll is dented more than I like the last day/two days I play like this to pass time and still gamble. You will have swings for sure, but none so wild you can't do this on $300.

Try the Wizard of Odds craps simulator and do this when you are bored. It makes you start with $1000 but you don't even have to keep track of the rolls to be surprised how long you play and never get more than $200 into your bankroll. Keep in mind you get to click "roll" about every two seconds when in real life it takes much longer.

If you find a system that leads to riches and glory (actually just riches) please share it with the group and I will do the same.
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:52 PM   #50
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Re: Best on Strip casino to play cheap Craps

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I think you give up more value like that than just riding out the come out 7/11's, though I haven't done the math so maybe not.
allow me to do the math for you.

making additional -ev bets gives up value.
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