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Old 12-05-2017, 07:56 PM   #76
callipygian
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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Cops will yell freeze. They arenít trained to let bad guys go and let investigators handle it.
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If cops see a gun, they will shoot. I canít see them letting a guy get away.
Are you speaking from direct knowledge of police procedures, or projecting based on what you think should happen?

I'll admit I have zero knowledge of police procedures myself. But I know many cops (coincidentally, through a home poker game I used to play) - the majority of them who work in high shooting jurisdictions like Oakland and the overwhelming attitude is "if you have to pull a gun something has already gone wrong."

They frequently serve on the citizens boards of their home towns, and they've all expressed disapproval of candidates that are way too willing to shoot.

It's possible I just know a disproportionate number of good cops (like the ones who extort blowjobs from teenagers probably choose not to associate with a straight arrow like me), but among the people I have personal experience with, they are exactly willing to let someone go and let the investigators handle it, unless someone's life is in immediate jeopardy (like a guy is pointing a gun at an officer or at bystanders).
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:03 PM   #77
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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Are you speaking from direct knowledge of police procedures, or projecting based on what you think should happen?
Projection. I have watched far too many hours of police reality shows.

It seems like if there is a gun, the police will yell freeze and/or shoot. I don't see them holding open the door for a perp to get away.

I also believe that they are permitted to shoot a person if the suspect is holding a gun.

But I think a shooting inside a casino is high-risk for life AND business.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:31 PM   #78
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
Are you speaking from direct knowledge of police procedures, or projecting based on what you think should happen?

I'll admit I have zero knowledge of police procedures myself. But I know many cops (coincidentally, through a home poker game I used to play) - the majority of them who work in high shooting jurisdictions like Oakland and the overwhelming attitude is "if you have to pull a gun something has already gone wrong."

They frequently serve on the citizens boards of their home towns, and they've all expressed disapproval of candidates that are way too willing to shoot.

It's possible I just know a disproportionate number of good cops (like the ones who extort blowjobs from teenagers probably choose not to associate with a straight arrow like me), but among the people I have personal experience with, they are exactly willing to let someone go and let the investigators handle it, unless someone's life is in immediate jeopardy (like a guy is pointing a gun at an officer or at bystanders).
It's not about being good or bad. It's about policy and procedure. In the US if you commit crimes with deadly weapons you should expect the police to respond with lethal force. They certainly aren't going to taze you.

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Old 12-06-2017, 02:38 AM   #79
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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it's very easy to change out a camera
May not be as easy as you think as you'd likely need to replace all the cabling the goes underground. Older cameras use analog video, new cameras use digital. You'd need signal amplifiers every few hundred feet too, which require power at places you may not have.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:00 AM   #80
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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It's not about being good or bad. It's about policy and procedure. In the US if you commit crimes with deadly weapons you should expect the police to respond with lethal force. They certainly aren't going to taze you.

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I was reading about police policy. As one would figure, grey. When they believe there is a threat. It doesnít even have to be threat of gun. Also, they have to make decisions in a nano-second and it is extremely rare a cop will be charged shooting a robbery suspect with a gun. Especially in Nevada.

After watching the video, I canít imagine if a cop was there just letting him waltz outside with a gun. I can understand security guards, but I would suspect a policeman would confront him. And take out his gun immediately. With a high likelihood of shooting the suspect if he makes any suspicious moves.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:58 AM   #81
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

Ok but then when the suspect fires back now you've got 2 shots fired. If either of those 2 shots miss and hit another patron we're right back in the same spot with the casino getting sued like crazy
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:05 AM   #82
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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Ok but then when the suspect fires back now you've got 2 shots fired. If either of those 2 shots miss and hit another patron we're right back in the same spot with the casino getting sued like crazy
Have there been instances of casinos being successfully sued for protecting their businesses with deadly force?
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:52 AM   #83
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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Ok but then when the suspect fires back now you've got 2 shots fired. If either of those 2 shots miss and hit another patron we're right back in the same spot with the casino getting sued like crazy
Why are you of the opinion that the police care if a casino gets sued?
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:19 AM   #84
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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They certainly aren't going to taze you.

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In actual reality they will taze AND shoot you.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/las-ve...g-370283075727

Here in Arizona they will shoot you under a variety of conditions. Such as:

Driving a car towards them or in their general direction.
Producing a knife, club, gun, rock, stick or mean looking dog.
Not obeying their commands.
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They do not seem to be overly concerned about bystanders or affecting the business of a casino or other corporation.

Not necessarily right or wrong, just reality.

Last edited by jcorb; 12-06-2017 at 10:21 AM. Reason: c
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:22 AM   #85
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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Ok but then when the suspect fires back now you've got 2 shots fired. If either of those 2 shots miss and hit another patron we're right back in the same spot with the casino getting sued like crazy
Cops don't fire one shot. They fire 2, 3, 15 shots.
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:24 PM   #86
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

Ok so the cops fire 15 shots and the suspect gets off a couple shots. Way too many shots in a crowded casino
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:47 PM   #87
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

What is the latest....this guy still running free putting his 35k on black?
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:49 PM   #88
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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Ok so the cops fire 15 shots and the suspect gets off a couple shots. Way too many shots in a crowded casino

Suspect gets off zero shots. Police are very good shooters and will kill or incapacitate him in 6 shots. Police generally are aware of others.

Regardless of a patron getting hit, it would be horrible for business.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:53 PM   #89
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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Police are very good shooters and will kill or incapacitate him in 6 shots.
I think you should go back through past news reports of shootouts, and mentally divide the number of times a suspect was shot by the total number of shots fired.
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:12 PM   #90
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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I think you should go back through past news reports of shootouts, and mentally divide the number of times a suspect was shot by the total number of shots fired.
If the suspect is ducking and hiding behind slots and firing a weapon, of course there will be misses.

If the suspect is right in front of them, they are generally very good at hitting the largest part of the body. I don't hear too much about police friendly fire hitting others, but I am sure it does happen.

I do believe if there was a policeman near the exit, he would tell the suspect to freeze. If any movements were made, the officer would shoot the suspect. I don't think the officer would just move out of the way and let an armed suspect leave the premises.
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:17 PM   #91
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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Originally Posted by jcorb View Post
In actual reality they will taze AND shoot you.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/las-ve...g-370283075727

Here in Arizona they will shoot you under a variety of conditions. Such as:

Driving a car towards them or in their general direction.
Producing a knife, club, gun, rock, stick or mean looking dog.
Not obeying their commands.
Arson
ETC

They do not seem to be overly concerned about bystanders or affecting the business of a casino or other corporation.

Not necessarily right or wrong, just reality.
Nice video. I suspect the reason the officer had a taser out is because the perp did not have a gun in hand when they initially confronted him.

Police are authorized to use lethal force when confronted with someone that has a deadly weapon. They are going to shoot a guy that has a knife rather than tase him because that's the path of least resistance (ie that's the surest way to keep themselves safe). I'm not saying that's right or wrong but it is the way police in the US operate. Here in Dallas police shot a man dead for brandishing a screwdriver. The two officers were not charged with a crime.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:06 PM   #92
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

Cops, on balance, are terrible shots. Ordinary city police, that is. Agencies like Border Patrol are elite, and they are outstanding shots. I've seen many in the local matches. However, ordinary city police are also very good about checking the background before they shoot. So although they miss a lot, they don't hit many bystanders.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:23 PM   #93
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

Ron White on CA cops. '...they shot fourteen rounds at POINT BLANK RANGE and didn't even hit the suburban, everyone walks away...' LOL

You even act like you have a weapon and you might get shot. The old saying of don't bring a knife to a gun fight is somewhat flawed.

One of the best law enforcement training videos, Surviving Edged Weapons: They tell the cops there is a suspicious guy in a warehouse and to go check it out.

Spoiler: cops were 0 for 19 in pulling their gun before the guy cuts their throat. I would be anxious to shoot too after watching this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwCl9bfz-8Y
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:31 PM   #94
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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..ordinary city police are also very good about checking the background before they shoot. So although they miss a lot, they don't hit many bystanders.
yeah, well these cops shot 9 in one shooting

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/ny...9-wounded.html

I shot in competition against Border Patrol, my very first match with a bone stock Ruger P90, not exactly a race gun. I took fifth place out of 42 entrants.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:48 PM   #95
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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Ron White on CA cops. '...they shot fourteen rounds at POINT BLANK RANGE and didn't even hit the suburban, everyone walks away...' LOL

You even act like you have a weapon and you might get shot. The old saying of don't bring a knife to a gun fight is somewhat flawed.

One of the best law enforcement training videos, Surviving Edged Weapons: They tell the cops there is a suspicious guy in a warehouse and to go check it out.

Spoiler: cops were 0 for 19 in pulling their gun before the guy cuts their throat. I would be anxious to shoot too after watching this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwCl9bfz-8Y
Scary video.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:16 PM   #96
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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One of the best law enforcement training videos, Surviving Edged Weapons: They tell the cops there is a suspicious guy in a warehouse and to go check it out.

Spoiler: cops were 0 for 19 in pulling their gun before the guy cuts their throat. I would be anxious to shoot too after watching this.
2007-2016:

Number of US police officers feloniously killed: 509
Number by knife: 2

Number died in accidents: 563
Number by accidental shooting (Crossfire, mistaken for subject, firearm mishap; Training session; Self-inflicted, cleaning mishap (not apparent or confirmed suicide): 26
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:23 PM   #97
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

don't need to be skeered of no knifes then. Disregard.
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:35 PM   #98
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

Anybody who thinks cops or security would fire shots in a crowded casino when there is no IMMEDIATE threat of violence is nuts.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:45 PM   #99
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

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Anybody who thinks cops or security would fire shots in a crowded casino when there is no IMMEDIATE threat of violence is nuts.


Well, they followed that guy with a bag and did the takedown in the middle of the casino. Not certain how necessary that was.
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:27 PM   #100
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Re: Bellagio Robbed

The police- if they're doing their job correctly, which is no guarantee especially in Vegas- will always attempt to deescalate a situation rather than escalate one. If an armed person is walking through a crowded casino they will not confront unless they are either pretty sure that they can subdue him without shots being fired, or he's acting too dangerously that they have to confront anyway.
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