And Ray Zee takes the lead for the worst advice in the thread.

Being banned is one thing.

Trying to sneak back in while being knowingly banned? Oh yeah what can possibly go wrong.

I think the OP is handling this as well as he can right now. This is a surefire way for him to invite 100x more problems than he needs.

It's quite an accomplishment.

Thanks, man!

No, he actually gave the best advice. Card counters have been using this method for years, and it works.

Thousands of people walk through casinos every day. Do you think they are biometrically scanning every single face to make sure they catch every person they've ever banned?

If you're not playing high stakes table games or using your rating card, or making a huge spectacle of yourself, nobody will have a clue who you are.

Wait a year, then go back and play. Don't use a rating card, don't tell anyone your name and if security decides to hassle you don't go with them anywhere Never show them your ID or admit who you are. Just leave.

I wouldn't try to stay at any of their hotels though.

Ray is right, don't keep reminding them who you are and what you did.
You might piss them off enough to get them to spread your name around other properties as well.

Just straight up LOL

This thread reminds me of that one where the guy was banned from Harrah's properties for card counting and then was so outraged that they wouldn't let him play WSOP events.

His solution was to go on TV and out himself as a counter to express his outrage. I think maybe he even promised to never play blackjack again. Oh and he threatened to "get lawyers involved." Wonder how that turned out?

OP when they banned you, did you sign any documents? If not, then they don't really have any proof that they banned you, so you won't have to worry about being cited for trespassing. Oh wait, now they have all those letters and emails from you acknowledging it. Oops!

Thanks for taking the time to post to offer some support and advice, but I'm not going to circumvent their ban!

If the ban gets lifted, great! If it doesn't, well, it would suck, but c'est la vie!

I take it all threads or articles involving a ban remind you of the one at Harrah's then, as that is the only thing I share with it.

I'm not outraged, nor have I threatened with lawyers, because I get why they thought a lifetime ban was appropriate.

I did in fact sign something acknowledging the ban, but even if I didn't, I wouldn't try to weasel through on some technicality.

I agree, Ray did give the best advice in this thread.

That brings up an interesting point. If ever I'm asked to sign anything, I should ask myself "What's in it for me"? In a case like this, nothing. What are they going to do to you if you don't sign?

Unfortunately a casino is no position to accept the 'I was only joking' defence.
If they did accept it, it opens a massive can of worms.

They would have video/witnesses/paperwork/photos so it seems silly to say they couldn't get you for tresspassing, especially if they took down the info on his ID.

People in the past have written letters and gotten bans lifted. I think it's worth writing one letter.

What can of worms would it open if they determined, upon further review, the actions were not intended as cheating.

Doubtful they will ever make any comment that puts them in an unenviable position even if they decide to reduce the ban period.

Actually, the OP never said he was never told he was banned for cheating. What he said was:

" . . . .After a while one of the security staff tells me that despite him believing me that I wasn't attempting to cheat, he would still be forced to issue me a ban. . . ." (emphasis added)

What the OP did was violate the rules of the game in such a way that could jeopardize the casino's gaming license. The GCB isn't going to revoke it for one infraction like this, but these things accumulate and are taken into consideration in future action. A couple of years ago, a casino that allowed a baccarat player to rip up cards and engage in other card related shenanigans was fined a substantial amount. No cheating alleged, just violations of the filed game protocol.

With millions of customers, casinos don't need anyone who does things like this. The OP made himself toxic and radioactive (I understand he didn't mean to do that, but his intent is, and was, irrelevant). I think a genuine and sincere apology, acknowledging that he understands and appreciates the importance of the integrity of the game and following the game protocol and promising to never violate it again, will get his ban lifted, after some time.

Main advice, don't give people your cards in a casino

I almost did once. In my second or third trip to LV, maybe 5 years ago there was one of those deals when me and the guy on my right almost got each others second card. The two cards were dealt very close to each other and with one finger each we separated them.

I jokingly asked if he wanted to swap them and he said "OK" and moved to exchange them. I thought for a second or two and chickened out and said something like "better not, they take that thing kinda seriously here". Which was daft as it was my offer in the first place.

I thought worst thing that would happen was the floor would have a word and we might have to fold that hand. Still decided not to do it.

A lifetime ban though? Wow. Never would have considered that a possibility then, nor now (for what OP did). OP - you were dealt a pretty crappy hand there.

My only points were:

-That it is serious
-I do believe that OP had zero intention to cheat
-Intentions unfortunately don't always matter
-I believe OP can either a) wait it out for a couple of years and reapply, or b) get a lawyer who knows people at the casino to perhaps get it expunged earlier

I think that document may be contested because it could be argued that it was signed under duress without a lawyer's review. And I am sure they have something in there that says you agree to sign it without a lawyer. Which may be overruled that it was not reasonable for OP have ample opportunity to initiate contact with a lawyer from a casino early in the morning.

I am more curious if that means a lifetime ban from even staying at the hotel or going to a restaurant within the casino confines. My guess is that it applies to all.

It's all fun and games till somebody loses a big pot in that hand to someone you have given cards to (even if dark).

Having said that, I do think a lifetime ban is harsh. But from their perspective, it's just risk mitigation and they really don't care about one poker player.

Trespass notice doesn't require your consent, informed or not.

You really are completely clueless. This was casino security, not the cops.

You are correct. They should produce a copy of what was signed.

While it would be good to have a copy of the document, I'm not sure why it would matter or what you think can be expunged. He didn't need to agree to the banning; he wrote that the document was acknowledging it, presumably so he couldn't later pretend to have misunderstood.

I'm gonna chime in on this. Being former security and having dealt with this exact issue I feel I can speak accurately about the situation.

Long story short, you messed up. You know it, the casino knows it, and no way you can change it. Like others have mentioned, everyone has a story, but policy has to be followed, especially when it comes to gaming licenses.
Sounds like people knew you weren't being malicious, but they had to cover their own behind in case you did happen to be a cheater.

Imagine if it comes out later on that you're both the worlds #1 poker cheat duo, and the Aria has you on security footage blatantly swapping cards with each other. If the gaming commission finds out that the Aria had knowledge and just basically said "Oh it's cool guys, they were only kidding, lulz", pretty much every person you spoke to is getting fired and the casino possibly fined.

Will that happen? Probably not. But if I was there I wouldn't risk my job just based on your word. Sorry.

Now, if they have your ID and info you can never ever swipe another players card or stay at any MGM hotel ever again. Just hang it up and forget it.

But...when I was working we trespassed and banned a ton of people. If we saw them again, we just told them to leave the property or we'd call the cops. If we actually had to call Metro every time we saw a trespassed person, we would need to have an officer stationed at every exit.

Also, security has pretty much zero power. We can ask for your ID, but that's about it. When I used to ask working girls for theirs, they knew the drill. They just got up and walked out. I'm not allowed to tackle them if I can't confirm their identity.
I'd have to be 100% certain that the person is trespassed, which happens like this.

I'd call up to security, and say I think I have a trespassed person. Then my supervisor would chime in and say to go get their ID. Scenario plays out 2 ways.

1. Person says no, gets up, walks out, I'm left standing there looking like an idiot.

2. Person actually gives me their ID, I radio up the name and DOB, wait for confirmation. Confirmation can usually take 3-4 minutes by waiting for radio traffic and to research offenses.
If person is confirmed trespassed or banned, the supervisor would chime in with one of 2 responses.
A) tell them to get out or we're calling the cops
B) throw them in handcuffs and physically restrain you from leaving the building

Option A is chosen about 98% of the time, especially when it's busy or a weekend. Option B is when you decide to be a complete 'tard and cause a scene.

Knowing all this, my advice would be to stay out of the Aria, as you're more likely to be recognized there. I honestly think other MGM properties are fine. There is facial recognition software for cheats, but I guarantee it's not being used to sniff out hustlers at a 2/5 table.

Don't use a players card, and if you have to, guess what, you don't speak english. Never give up an ID and walk away if questioned. If you have chips, take them with you. No law against throwing $500 in reds in your pocket. They can't tackle you based on an assumption and taking your own money.

But then again, there are tons of rooms in Vegas, avoid the potential for even a remote possibility of going to jail and play somewhere else. But if you decide to be hard headed ,remember the above.