Everyone who plays poker professionlly just not just in Vegas but everywhere absolutely need to read the DGAF thread ASAP

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...30/?highlight=

I’ve been to Vegas 4 times total and absolutely saddened by the current state of poker and how bad the regs are here for poker.

You guys who walk in wearing headphones watching movies carrying back packs and just think you can nit it up are terrible for the game

As a “professional” poker player your “job” should be to keep the bad players coming back and make them feel comfortable losing to you.

All this strategy talk at the table is ridiculous! You are intimidating the recs.

Why in the world would you want anyone to know ur a pro?

I don’t even play professionally and am just mind boggled about the habits as a whole from these “professionals”

The edges are getting smaller and smaller. Do you really just wanna keep competing against other regs wearing headphones and carrying book bags?

The lack of self awareness is insane. All the table changing/ seat changing to get position on the spot is horrible as well. Sure it may be +ev in the short term but these people will catch on

I’ve heard numerous recs/whales talk about how the see this going on and say like wow I don’t wanna lose my money to this guy or I’m not playing against him he’s a pro... ur killing ur own action

I absolutely HATE when people call out people for their bad play... why say anything at all??? You should be defending these people not calling them out!

Just something to think about. You guys need to make poker fun and enjoyable for the recs

Good post.

DGAF 2K post is gold.

Absolutely it’s probably the best I’ve read on here.

I’m a rec and feel everyone should read it not just pros

Lots of experience and wisdom in that thread, DGAF's podcast is interesting too.

We should all try to be courtious and accommodating to other players and especially the recreational players.

However I really doubt earbuds, backpacks and people seat changing are deal breakers that affect if someone is going to play poker or not. As long and they aren't slowing the game those kind of things don't bother me.

these are horrible for the game (backpacks not as much)
absolutely horrible
one person doing it isn't a big deal but look around a poker room- they're packed with these guys.
engage the donks, don't be seat hopping parasites , put down the tablets and make them have a good time.

the dgaf thread is awesome.

Seat changing is a big issue imo at certain casinos.

It’s worst at aria 2/5. I rarely seat change anymore unless I get stuck In 5 seat

It’s rude to make someone with chips wait 2 hands cause u want the new seat

I think not maintaining a fun mood is what's killing it. Silence across the table, the usual reg berating someone that did a bad play, not reciprocating small talk with rec players, not helping new players loosen up (they look intimidated, as if they are afraid of embarrassing themselves), immediately changing seats to be to the immediate left of the fish (come on, he's not clueless and even they look visibly uncomfortable when they notice it), etc.

All that stuff scares recs and new players. If they don't feel welcome, why stay? Would you continue being a customer at a store where you don't feel welcome at all? Me neither.

It might not at first but long term it surely will in my opinion.

Plus even if it doesn’t if they know u are a pro they are absolutely less likely to give uou action or be intimated by you.

I think backpacks/headphones should be banned

Whenever I see a post like this, I wonder how much the OP lost.
So basically you ( a rec) want the regs/pros to be better at their jobs.
If there are more than 2 or 3 Ipad/hoodie/headphone players at a table, I use that info find a better game.

Lol! I won all 4x I’ve been to Vegas but the point is it’s detering more recs from coming back leading to tougher games overtime

There’s nothing factually wrong with those kinds of posts/observations but they never answer the “why?”.

It’s not like most of those regs want to be bad for the games on purpose, they just don’t care. If you told them they could make $x/hour more by ditching the headphones and engaging with other players, they would tell you “sure, but if I wanted to make a little more money, I could just get a regular job”.

It’s not like those players are too stupid to understand but rather DGAF (pun intended). The smaller the edges get, the less ‘normal’ people decide poker is a viable career choice while the headphone crowd and their usually pretty low cost of living might try to grind it out to the bitter end.

Exactly this. The real pros do the right things. These other guys are good at poker and the money is only a way to keep score so they can feed their ego. Felt someone for 100 or 1000, they get the rush. Talking about someone else's bad play is just stroking themselves. They don't worry about the future when they can feel good now.

It sounds to me like the OP wants to have fun when he plays
Recs don't have fun they stop playing

Disagree
From.readng threads on here and talking to a bunch of live regs off the table they actually don't think it makes a difference at all,think people will play poker no matter what,think everyone will get into poker for the same reasons they did etc

I wanna have fun no doubt. I want other people to have fun as well. My main goal as a semi serious rec who wants to continue to improve is to make money for sure, however, I understand if the atmosphere is uninviting and people are intimated they won’t come back. They will play craps insted.

I think I’m Vegas it’s so important to keep the recs happy.... for instance, someone who just wants to give poker a shot after watching a show. Sure they may lose but if u make it FUN for them they will probably try it again

Do you expect them to actually say IDGAF? I would say exactly the same thing if I was a headphone guy and someone approached me about it.

FWIW, I don’t think pleading ignorance is any different from not caring.

You understated the Rec view of the game.

A rec who stops having fun playing poker will still have fun by doing something else for fun/entertainment. Entertainment alternatives abound outside the poker room or online poker.

I've been playing live lpw stakes in Las Vegas and elsewhere as a rec for over forty years. I am not a pro, but do not begrudge them their game.

As for knowing who the pros are, that is a plus. The problem arises when the "pros" adopt a nit strategy and flood tables; recs want to see action especially in pots between or among pros. Recs lose their sense of fun when they perceive themselves as the only folks willing to give action with a draw or even the worst of it.

A bit of a different perspective as a recreational player:

The backpack/headphone/ipad crowd is, almost without exception, not hard to play against. They are nits on autopilot. So I really don't mind having them in the game.

That said, they make it way less enjoyable. Not because they berate me, but because they just make the game so much less fun. I tighten up because I HATE giving these guys my money. And playing tight is boring.

I've been vegas couple times and it's amazing how little people skills the regs have, they don't know how to work the recs, to gamble with them, chat, be interested what they're massively into -

Bullriding is one example I have, a guy regaling about the famous badacious or sth like that. he was huge fan and there to gamble, he'd jam a flush draw and I'd ask if he had much he say not really so I'd call with A high. he basically tell me but not tell me and we had a good time. the regs were salivating but soon as they were involved he'd shut down and not gamble with them because they weren't gambling.

He went off for about 1-2k at $200 a pop, I cashed out $1350 after he left, he was happy to see you win and couple of the guys just were not interested in joining the conversation with him, def not gamble with him. Instead Strat talk was about as far as they went.

At wsop time be interested in bad beat stories from the recs, the wsop tourney they beat was prob a huge event for them. jus shut up and listen sometimes , it is in ur interests

A rec who stops having fun playing poker will still have fun by doing something else for fun/entertainment. Entertainment alternatives abound outside the poker room or online poker.

Yep. I should be a pros wet dream - I can play a little, don't much care if I lose a grand or two in a session, but play well enough so that I don't slow the game down.

I have played a grand total of about an hour in my last 6 trips to LV - sitting at a table with a bunch of zombified douchbags who jump tables every 15 minutes - no thanks. I'll hang out at the bar with my wife and screw around with the poker machines while I keep an eye on my sports bet on the TV. Much more enjoyable.

MM MD

You Americans are a sad lot. Always whining about the things you want but never doing anything about it. In my country, players who are not entertaining tend to... "disappear."

PERFECT example!

In the late 90's I was a reg at Biloxi Grand, the only poker action in the South East US at the time pretty much. I got a royal and won a nice casino jacket and hat and when the weather was cooler I wound wear that jacket and hat daily to the poker room.

One day an old reg, who by the way married the richest woman in Mississippi, sat me down and gave me a speech about dressing like that to the poker game and making tourist uncomfortable by looking like a reg, etc.

Maybe way back then he saw what was going to happen years later, or maybe he was just an a hole, probably a little of both. lol

Lol that’s great!!! He’s right!

This is pure crazy, unsure if you mean banning winning players or unpleasant ones or violence but its pure stupidity that simply isnt how the us or any country anyone wants to live in operates.

I think about 80% of the frustration recreational players like those posting in this thread is being aware that the guys you dislike are taking your money rather than how they act. Obviously it would be better if all the grinders had great people skills and were all around cool enjoyable dudes. There is a reason someone is grinding live 2/5 and it aint cause they are great at life. I dont disagree with the larger point that fun games are better for everyone than boring quiet ones but placing all the blame for every game not being fun on the regs is silly. Ive been at plenty of dead quiet boring 1/2 games where no one was any good including myself and it wasnt really any indviduals fault it simply was boring and nitty and shortstacked. At this type of game recs bring other things to entertain themselves too. The idea that everyone should be forced to interact in some super outgoing way is nonsense. Introverts are allowed to play live poker too, professionally or recreationally.

Obviously it goes without saying a professional being rude or obnoxious isnt acceptable and should be discouraged but such people generally agree with this idea outside the moment and simply cant govern their own behavior.