U alright man?

OP I would try and get a place for <$1500/mo that’s walking distance from the strip and then just grind a ton of 2/5 and look out for a soft 5/10 to shot take if u see one that’s particularly juicy.

Actually 318 hours tells you a lot less than many people realize.

Imo people are over-reacting to your opinionated posting since you joined, but this particular post really should represent the end of your commenting on what it takes to win or not at poker.

As a self-described small winner over 5 years at the easiest games in Vegas, who works very hard to maintain this performance level, perhaps you should consider that you are not fully educated regarding what it does or does not take to win at poker.

Luck might be the only thing in poker that’s more important than ranges.

That’s especially true in full ring low stakes games where half the “regulars” have totally static ranges.

In case the OP is still reading any of this...

I have every cash session tracked since 2007, and I've never filtered in this way...completely ridiculous on my part. So, I just did.

Filtered on just Vegas, I have 1,855 hours overall. 1,161 is 1/2 or 1/3, and the rest is 2/5 with a tiny sample of 5/10 (like 26 hours). My 1/2 win rate is 9.3bb/hr and my 2/5 is 4.7bb/hr. I've never hung out a lot with casino/live pros who really make solid income at these stakes, so I have no idea where that falls re: 'good' or 'bad' when it comes to being a winning player, but I suspect it's a serviceable performance level. But...enough to live on? I guess if I were 22 and would be happy living in a shitty studio somewhere with no health insurance and a beater car, I guess maybe?

I will say that while I enjoy trying to play my best, Vegas trips are vacations, and as such there was plenty of drinking, fun with friends, various sub-optimal play etc. . If I were playing for a job my win rates would be at least marginally better I'm sure, but still...not very encouraging numbers when you translate them into dollars that need to pay rent etc.

Anyway, over 75% of these hours are between 2007 and 2012, when poker was hugely easier to beat in Vegas. If I filter on just say, 2014-2019 (my last trip was just pre-pandemic) those numbers go down, and I'm way better now than I was then. The low stakes are still beatable for sure, but since 2013 or so (a bit after black Friday obv) it started to become necessary to game select in a real way in 2/5. It also became necessary to study and learn theory.

Before that time, really all it took was a very basic understanding of position, how to calculate direct and implied odds, a small amount of aggression, and discipline. This is still enough for 1/2, but not 2/5 in my experience.

When I was younger (like, 2007-2012) I went to Vegas way more often for way longer trips. The games were ridiculous all the time. It just isn't like that now. If I started now, at my current skill level, and played all 2/5 , I'm not certain that I'd beat 2/5 for a rate that could be reasonably be referred to as 'income.'

What's the point? If your results over a reasonable sample aren't way better than mine, don't do it imo. I mean, nobody wants to live in a van. Over the time I outlined above, I was an ok winner, but there were some bad trips in there. I'm scrolling through the sessions and there was a trip in 2012 where I played 51 hours of 2/5 and lost $5,520. How would your 20k bankroll take that if you were living on your poker income? Not great, right?

I guess if you're young and have no obligations or people who count on you, then what the hell...have an adventure. But if this is meant to be a serious attempt at being a 'pro' maybe not so much.

Well sort of. For that length of play, the error in your calculated average hourly result will usually be within about +- 6.7 BBs. So if you actually won 10BB/h, you're nearly certain you're a winner, but can't tell if you're scraping by or a crusher.

This is excellent advice. It depends what other options a person has, but I wouldn't advise someone to "go pro" unless they're making at least say 7BB/h at 5/10 and I'm convinced it's not a fluke AND they've got the temperament to grow to play HS.

The reason is that to a first order approximation, a poker $/hr is worth about 1/2 as much as a salary $/hr. The combination of irregular hours/your game not always running, lack of benefits/retirement, costs related to poker, non-favorable tax treatment (self employment tax) etc. makes that the case.

So definitely do not take your 10BB/h 1/2 game and go pro

I concur, after 30 years of personal observation in Las Vegas, and 20+ years closely watching 2+2.

"The rake is too damn high".

Excellent post.

You could also factor in the opportunity cost versus doing something else and playing on the side.

And perhaps you should at least briefly consider not believing in your own poker genius to the point where you become so arrogant as to tell other people what they "should" do.

Naah

Not for our studly geniuses here. I have been repeatedly lectured sternly that the rake and promo drop don't matter and I'm a wimpy little wimp for even thinking about such things. Real men can beat even a 100% rake!

No, I agree with you, and know that. I have a lot more hours in California card rooms. I was just restricting to only Las Vegas games. I guess I could be a loser in Las Vegas games in the long run.

Not sure why "should" is in quotes there. There are people here in this thread vastly more knowledgeable and better at poker than either of us (Squid face, Splawndarts, and Czesh immediately come to mind) and I feel pretty confident they'd agree with my statement.

This is me opening myself up to be roasted by them if I'm wrong: there's no 'should' in quotes about it. You have no business telling anyone what is involved in winning at poker. I mean seriously..."ranges blah blah?" Priceless, really.

Nothing remotely close to poker genius is required to recognize what one does and does not know. To fail in this regard is arrogance.

Also, I take back what I said about people overreacting to your abrasive posts. You are a sad and lonely troll and I expect you'll be gone shortly.

Oooh, Internet Boy has spoken!!! Troll troll troll troll troll. Nyahh nyahh nyahh nah naaaah! Your mother wears army boots!

I wonder why all the experts here are posting on an internet forum when they could be making hundreds of thousands a day at the poker table, what with their unassailable genius and all.

Ratio of what the people here think their skill level is to their actual skill level: 3:1. Maybe worse. Have a nice day, Internet Boy!

So what are the options now for people who want to live in vegas short term? I recall about 10 years ago, people mention the extended stay places were shady especially if its siegal suites. I heard budget suites is similar but not as bad as siegal. I remember people said holiday royale was decent... whereas other people said it was horrible. I had heard mixed reviews from many people on this. I know the extended stay deluxe near flamingo about 10 years ago or so... i recall you paid like 1500 a month total for first month but after the first month it was only like 900-950 or so? But what are prices now for that? I heard that location was good.



Also 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom apartments in decent neighborhoods in vegas now... are they really that expensive? Back then i recall a 2 bedroom in a decent neighborhood was probably like 1200 dollars or so? But now is it around the same or a bit more only? The thing that doesn't make sense is why do people rent those extended stay places if the monthly cost of it... is similar to a 1 bedroom apartment? Is it because its furnished and everything included? So how much would it cost to rent a studio or 1 bedroom furnished in vegas in a decent neighborhood? I recall someone saying budget suites right now a month still cost you at least 1000 dollars a month right? Probably like 1200? Couldn't you sign a lease for a 6 month in an apartment and pay around the same though?



Also if you rent a room from someone, it probably isn't going to be more that 800/month right? Probably like 500-800 at the most? I heard some places you even have your own bathroom and some even their private entrance. Now i also heard about those meridian condos which i heard is very close to the strip and even gated and from checking online, the prices are not much more than staying at an extended stay place. So is there any reason why someone would choose those extended stay places? Now someone mention desert manor where trooper use to stay at and say its 800/month. Well that is much different since that is much lower cost.

Thoughts on meridian condos? That seem to be near the strip and the prices don't seem that pretty decent?


Also guys like Negreanu obviously lives in some rich gated community in summerlin/henderson etc. But do most medium to high stakes players do the same as well? I got to assume someone like Berkey is very similar right?

my thoughts? Bring water. A lot of it. There isn't going to be much left in 5-10 years. other than that, you should be fine.

And get in shape.

With limited, to no water, electricity will be scarce for the casinos.
They'll be installing stationary bikes hooked up to generators to power the lights, slots and card shufflers.

For water, they're planning on running their customer sewage through Brita filters and reusing it continuously (so, lack of water isn't such a big deal)

I only spoke of my experience and several others who live full time away from Vegas but came to Vegas often. I acutally did move to Vegas for 6 months in 2013 (right after I got separated) and had a blast. It was a blessing, my joy to life returned. Plus Vegas is so much cheaper to live in from where I am. It also helped the mood that I was easily beating the games and made lots of new friends from around the world.

Would love to know where there are weaker games than Vegas (for 2/5 or higher) other than South Florida or California.

I know you were kidding about reusing the sewage ..... that has been ongoing for many years to water landscape.

Games are nitty here in Vegas. Hopefully WSOP makes table selection better.

Advice? Never buy drugs from a limo driver.

Well with less poker rooms it will be harder to find tables, the lists will be long, etc...

Advice ?

Drink a lot of water, constantly. It is a desert.