You probably should have spent less time napping during your statistics class (your posts suggest that you know just enough to be dangerous), but I don't really want to debate the accuracy of a phantom equation of yours that you aver is 100% correct but you won't, um, show your work.

The point I was trying to make is that it's quite possible, even easy, to lose forty buyins over the course of two months' constant play. Of course, the worse a player the OP is, the more likely that outcome, but it's never a negligible risk unless he's a much better than average player.

You could play in one of the Texas cities, get the same action and it would be easier to afford. Come October, then go to Vegas for the WSOP.

You made a lot of sensible posts which OP and others should heed.

I would add that's it's hard to get by in Vegas on less than $100 per day--that's without a car and even if you live there. So that reduces his bankroll to $14K or less (How's he getting there? More expenses!). He also indicated that he wanted to play some WSOP tournaments, which will reduce his available cash game bankroll even more, probably to $10K or less. Now how many buy-ins does he have on his bankroll with a win rate we don't know?

Given the above, is he willing to increase his chances of going broke by playing higher than 1/2-1/3? Only he can answer that. But if I was him and taking that risk, I would have a fallback plan involving my bank card or credit card. Or at least a contingency of cutting my trip short and going home. There's not much to do in Vegas with no money. It's the friggin' desert! And given his budget, he probably won't want to spend the day in his hotel room or wherever he's staying.

All the above is considering worst case scenarios. In practice, he may lose a little, break even or win and be fine. I'd recommend him being sure whether he's beating the games he's in and be willing to move down and/or take some days off if he's not.

There isn’t enough info in OP, but if this is some sort of trial run for going pro, i don’t think minimizing ROR should be a priority. If it were me i would want to maximize the chance of getting a clear answer on poker as a career. Getting stuck at 1/3 grinding 40+ hour weeks for low pay and living in a trash motel is the worst outcome. That’s what he should try to minimize happening. Going broke isn’t the most fun answer, but going broke and moving on to something else is a clear answer. He should be willing to take risks if a potential reward is ending up in a good situation for playing poker full time.

I would recommend living the life of a professional poker player regardless of bankroll. Force yourself to put in full time hours both studying and playing. Play stakes where you can actually make a decent living and grow your bankroll (2/5 and even 5/T if things go well). At the end of the two months you’ll actually have experience you can draw on to decide if this is a life you really want. Don’t be afraid of ending the two months needing to move on from poker.

Really? That's surprising. I've only played in Vegas a handful of times (most of my live play has been in Florida and Atlantic City). I can understand Vegas have more pros playing but I would think with the influx of tourists/visitors, there would be many soft games.

The presence of those pros as well as so many reasonably good regulars means that you need a couple of tourist fish just to make a game worthwhile. Plus, not all that many tourists gravitate to live poker any more. The frenzy generated by a couple of terrible poker movies and a couple of dorks getting uber-lucky to win the WSOP--well, that was long ago.

As just one specific observation, there are a LOT fewer instances of players playing superficially attractive garbage hands, like K4s, and particularly improving those hands and then donating blood (like hitting a King on the flop and calling off their stacks on all three streets). I couldn't tell you if you see that kind of loose-passive fish play all that much elsewhere in the country, but I know it used to be common in Vegas. But now, the regs have learned to fold, which means that the tourists aren't lasting very long at all and so, poker isn't attractive for them. They buy in for $300 and ten minutes later, their stacks are gone. At least at the 6:5 BJ tables, their demise will be slower. It's like the choice between being raped and being raped and kissed afterward.

This is not to say that you still can't find a nice touristy game in Vegas if you look. But that's really only on Friday and Saturday now. The waters have been fished out.

You're a total clown. Give up while you're behind and never, ever try to give advice again. It doesn't suit you

This, If its true Vegas has the toughest games I really need to venture outside of Vegas...

I never call anyone who disagrees with me "a total clown," you total clown. Even though disagreeing with MOI should be a capital offense (I'm sure you feel that way as well).

But I have a question: what other kind of clown would there be? A partial clown? An incomplete clown? Inquiring minds want to know!

Yeah, it's not so much that the players in Vegas are so tough as that the players elsewhere really, really, really suck. Many Vegas regulars are, while pretty "nitty" as the pejorative term goes, reasonably competent. That can't be said for the regulars in other places.

The southern CA card barns used to be an exception to the rule until they instituted "California rake." Now, with those games essentially unbeatable, the good players have sought greener pastures and the standard of play is uniformly horrible. That, ironically, has made those games almost worth playing. Almost. It's loads of jolly mega-fun to cash out $70 ahead and calculate that the house sucked up $130 from all the pots you won. If they were taking a jackpot drop, your winnings were more like $30. Whee!

Anecdotally, the softest games right now are in Texas and Florida, which makes sense given the overall cognitive levels of those two states' inhabitants. But the only trouble with that is that to play in those places, you have to actually go there, which may make even a $1000 a day profit not worth it.

We're talking about 1/2 players. They essentially all suck, unless a much higher stakes player is playing down for some reason. The games in vegas may be a tad harder than some other places, but they're still insanely soft. Even the Vegas 10/20 games are far from filled with crushers.

is madrobin going to troll every single thread? /sigh/

Is astrobel going to become my own personal stalker because I had the temerity to disagree with him in another thread?

Really, dude, stalking another poster and making posts that serve no purpose but to attack that person and make snide comments is childish, stupid, rude, and doubtless contrary to the spirit if not the rules of these forums.

So, please, sir, kindly shove it.

Hey OP,

There are some downers in this thread. You've got this. And if you're consistently able to play at a level that beats the games, there is no shortage of action 5/10 and lower that is easily beatable.

Point of advice: at the 2/5 level, squeeze super aggressively. The easiest exploit in the world is identifying which opponents are happy to put $25 into the pot but terrified to put in $200 and then taking advantage of them. It also makes sense given the rake structure.

+1

^We don’t know how good the OP is though. If it was that easy we wouldn’t see so many of the same nitty grinders stuck at the lowest stakes grinding freerolls and hours played promotions year after year. Vegas actually doesn’t have much 5-10 even in the biggest rooms.

no man, gamblin is ez. Just belong to 2p2, know some cool lingo, then print. WHen u get nuked just use some more jargon as to why. Check out bikekings twatter acct for good lines to use

I would say that if you took the average "I'd like to go to Vegas and play poker" random dude and observed him on such a trip, what you'd see would be not unlike a cow wandering into a river full of piranhas.

It's another macho macho man thing here (and elsewhere) to brag about how the games in Vegas (or wherever) are "so soft," which of course implies that the braggart wins an average of 150BB every five minutes and in fact, people, upon entering the room, see him and just give him all their money without wasting time sitting down and playing.

Even more laughable is that none of these studly geniuses ever sit down at the same table. It's always the wizard versus the eight fish.

It's tough to win at poker in Vegas. Anyone who says otherwise is just blowing smoke.

Maybe it's just tough for you to win at poker in Vegas. I mean you like to play low variance, fold all marginal spots poker like open folding 77 in early position. Of course it's going to be hard to win anything significant playing like that.

I mean you are the one thinking an extra $1 or $2 in promo drop is more important than game quality. BTW, did you ever get around calling all the poker rooms in town to create a spreadsheet on current rake structures?

I can vouch for this. I fell into that mode of weak-tight autoplay recently.

madrobin - Join date = July 2021 ; yeah, I'm sure my trolldar is off

It doesn’t really matter how good he is or if he overestimates his ability. All we can do is provide advice based on the information he provides.

Those nitty 1/2 grinders you talk about fall into one of two categories:
1. People who don’t rely on poker income
2. People who make min wage or less at the table and live accordingly

There are a couple people who are very good at table selecting and exploiting specific lowest-stake-player mistakes. They make OKish money at those stakes and might make less at 2/5+.
But for the vast majority of players the question is if they can beat 2/5+. If they can, the only reasonable advice is to play those stakes, especially if they have a $20k bankroll. If they can’t, there’s simply no point in coming to Vegas to play for a living.

If you have the bankroll to do it start out at 2/5 and see how that goes. If you don’t think you have the skill to do that or are too risk averse, just don’t move to Vegas.

You can get a pretty nice spot for $4k on/near the strip for a month.

Spend the month visiting different rooms, getting comfortable at low stakes and eating well / having as much fun as you can.

At the end of that month you should have an idea of what to do next (stay another month, switch places to stay, etc.) and you'll have had a nice place to lay your head and a good experience.

Don't know what else to tell you but 2/5 in Vegas is equivalent to micro stakes online, If your not crushing these games you need to work harder off the table.

I've already admitted that I'm not as manly as you. But if you're saying that you routinely cruise into the Vegas cardrooms and lay waste to the opposition, earning 800BBs/hr and the oohs and aahs of all the womenfolk, I say...horse pucky.

And, dude..."you're the one" saying that $1 or $2 extra out of every. single. pot. you win doesn't matter. You're the one saying that 77 should be played like AA. Of course it's going to be hard to win anything significant thinking like that.

So please, quit styling yourself as an expert to the point where you criticize everyone who doesn't play like studly genius you. It just makes you look foolish, and besides, making snide remarks about others may be well-nigh compulsory on the internet but really doesn't contribute to discussion.