Not sure if this is the correct place to post but my question is that Im about to start staking a guy and some questions have arisen between us regarding travel expenses, is it normal for the staker or stakee to pay those things?

Horses or backers who understand what is optimal and what to expect,

My goal is not to trash talk or bash anyone, merely to gain clarity on what to expect from a backer and what is to be expected from me as a horse. Please do not misinterpret my words or my intent as such. I am learning daily...

I have been a professional poker player since August of 2004. While I struggled in the beginning with bankroll management, variance, and emotion- I was prepared enough with my savings to cover living expenses through the rough stretches and battled through the early struggles. Much like any other business, the first 2 years were spent learning many things that I thought I already knew, making adjustments, reducing overhead where I could, and most importantly- learning to live a more humble lifestyle than I had grown accustomed to when the situation called for it. My career began to blossom, my knowledge, experience, and skill grew and my bankroll quickly followed suit. Years and millions of hands later I had become a mass tabling, driven, hard working veteran and along came black friday to ruin my life as I knew it. With the devastation of nearly 80% of my poker bankroll being "in limbo" on FTP I began to reach out to backers for help- with virtually no knowledge of what to expect, or if my resume was even appealing enough to find a backer in an industry that was rocked hard by the DOJ and backers that were surely petrified of what the future of online poker would be in the US. I spoke with several backers, spoke to my friends about what I was being told by them and was fortunate enough to have a friend who had just bought a night club.
He told me I would be silly to part with 50% or more of my earnings and that I could work for him until i had enough money to return to poker. He paid me well, I worked hard, and I avoided the need for a backer. I began to play live poker at my local B&M's when I could until I was enlightened by one of my affiliates on how I could return to online poker and have my life back. A stressful journey, but I was back online, seemingly back on track and patiently waiting on GCG to sort out the rest. I had such great success in late 2012 and all of 2013 that I made the decision to "do it big" and took on an unbearable nut size that created a mountain of stress. Mismanagement of funds led to debt, doubt, and ultimately what every poker player fears the worst- busto... only, this time- unlike the post BF doubt- I had a bit of knowledge on how the backer horse game worked. So, I reached out to someone who knew a little about the sicko volume I could pump for advice on the best course of action. He was a bit curious, asked me for some database numbers, did his own research into "Treenom" and determined that I was a worth a small investment. I tried to adjust to life as an "employee", sending daily screen shots, constant communication, brainstorming, analysis, debate, discussion... the pressure mounted. I had never done this before and imo handled it very unprofessionally- missing several days of sending my ss, and stressing even more than I had on my own dime because I knew I'd only be getting x% of my winnings. I couldn't seem to shake this feeling of "never gonna get outta this rut", and it was evident in my game. Confidence destroyed, 6 kids to feed, and a daily ss to remind me of how big of a mountain I faced. He stuck with me, even when I was causing him more stress than I was worth(and for that I am grateful) but, ultimately decided to end our stake towards the end of the 1st month because I failed to send a ss for the 3rd or 4th time since the stake began. He ate the small loss and moved on, surely bitter, but when my FTP was delivered the last day of that month(Hallelujah!!!) I returned his investment with an additional $500 for his troubles and as a sort of "ty" for the stress I put him through. I was not obligated to repay the makeup or any additional... it's just who I am. So, we moved on and I thought I could cover the last 5 months of my mini-mansion lease with little to no stress... wrong again. While I struggled to get it done, I watched my FTP $'s quickly disappear and the pressure mounted once again, so I reached out to the same backer- now with a new perception, a new understanding, and a much more professional mindset. I knew my second attempt at being a triple crown winning thoroughbred would be much different and I would not make the same mistakes I made the first time. We got rolling again, but this time I did my thing... the pressure still existed,
the stress of my poor money management and nut decision making was ever present, but I battled through it and had the success I knew was possible- doing well the first month and literally SMASHING the next month. It seemed I could not do much wrong, only running $400 above ev the 2nd month- I won enough to put my backer at ease with the knowledge that our stake was now a freeroll for him and that the third month promised to be even better... and now my dilemma...

After the first month of success, he chose to "let it ride"- meaning I needed to move my portion of my winnings to cover my sicko nut, but he left his portion in the bankroll. This accomplished great things for my confidence, and I was able to move up to the next stake and begin making a considerably larger hourly. For him, a bit larger risk and a bit more trust was needed, but I feel that I had shown him what he lacked seeing the first time and that when my confidence was booming I was a BEAST. He had obviously seen what he needed to be confident in my skill enough to do this and for that I am grateful as well. As we both expected, my second month of play saw the sicko results and bankroll growth we both envisioned prior to sealing the deal with a contract. I will continue to honor our contract with discretion as that was part of the deal, but know that I had taken a very small investment from him and multiplied it 13x+ by the end of the second month... then, after our monthly settle, I moved my portion, AND he moved his portion of my winnings. I watched my bankroll grow from nothing to large and had my confidence DESTROYED when the roll was devastated by those funds being removed. With the roll being severely downsized my confidence followed suit and I struggled through the third month with very little profit and tension between us mounting. I was diligent to honor my contract, only playing the stakes I was instructed, sending my ss daily with only 2 or 3 missed because I was sleeping and woke too late to send one before the day's end. All the while being told that my life stresses(marriage issues, money stresses, etc) were too much to bear and that I was becoming a "high risk" situation that no backer would bother with. Being told that if I wasn't more productive that our stake would be ended and he could find another less stressful horse. I felt that I was being talked down to when I tried to reason with him as to why I was struggling the way I was. I felt that my knowledge of poker and discernment was something that should be trusted, and was dismissed because I was the one who "needed" him and he was helping me like some sort of charity case. I never felt like a business "partner", only like an employee with a boss who belittled my body of work and insight into a variant of the game that he knows little of(NLHE) as he has been a pro for longer than me playing a different game. I was told by my backer and my coach to "stop being creative"- something I think should be valued as
a trait and not a flaw. I think the beauty of NLHE is the ability to be creative- to think outside the box- not just be a robotic, "play every spot the same" player. I finished the fourth month of our stake with another nice chunk of winnings and after month number four diversified a large chunk of my "bread and meat" roll to another site. This was a repeat of the same thing that happened after the second month, as I watched my roll get diced up by nearly 70% with my portion moved, his portion moved, and another large chunk being moved to another site. So, rolling into the fifth month of our stake, it was like starting all over with a small roll and my confidence waning because of it. Struggled through the fifth and final month and the stake was terminated approximately 2/3 of the way through the last month... and now my questions...

Is it standard in the staking industry to rollover profits after a settle or move all backer portion of winnings each time? Is it standard to bank the initial investment once earned, then allow the backer's cut to build the roll? Is it standard to expect the backer to be "boss" and the horse to be "employee", or are there backers who treat their horses as business partners who listen to and respect the opinions shared by the horse? If the horse follows all instructions with only minor mistakes, is is standard to threaten to end the stake on a regular basis? Is it standard to not allow the horse to pay off a percentage of the initial stake after each settle? I have always tried to pay as much of the principal as possible to reduce the cost of interest, but I was told, "that's not how this works"... is this different for different backers?

Please reply with any and all info or insight into the world of backing

I see ppl post they want to buy hotel rooms or sell rooms and wondering if anyone here can answer these questions.


Can you tell me how it works if i were to buy a room from someone like you in the future? I assume almost every who sells these rooms have these rooms comped as oppose to discount right? Also, i assume ppl who do this in AC most likely is already staying in a room that night or they live in new jersey and thus get comp rooms?


Can you tell me how the process would work? I assume you meet up with that person at the hotel lobby and then the person gives you cash then you go and book the room with your and his name then he checks out next day either at the front desk or checking out at the room and dropping the key there?


Isn't it very risk for the seller because that person who sells the room, the buyer might order things for the hotel or does the seller do something like don't charge anything to the credit card to prevent his from happening? The other thing is if there is damage to the room, thats a pretty big liability to the seller so the risk worth it if the buyer leaves the hotel room in really bad shape?



But for the person that needs the hotel room, does the seller have access to the room as well because that would obviously be a risk to the buyer because he could come back to room then all his belongings are gone.


Also, isn't selling rooms illegal though? I guess not b/c i see many ppl post want a room or selling a room. But how much do these comped rooms generally sell for? Example if its 350 dollars for a room for that night, how much would generally be it sold for?


I also assume ppl don't bother selling rooms unless its the weekend but if its the weekday, probably at least few days minimum?


Just curious how this works.

I can't get through to the mod Bobo (any help ?)

it is very important ,it seems he has been ignoring me as i have sent tons of pms

for months now !

btw he did ask me to contact him to ,so i find this very strange

just try one of the other MP mods

if its specific to Bobo, then ask that they forward ur msg to him

I have done this already and yes it is specific for Bob

Can someone show me few examples of people who have sold shares whether its live or online and how they payout to their investors? I know for live tournaments many ppl do 1 tournament at a time but many do packages like its the wsop.


But for the online events, very few players do 1 tournamenta unless its a big one and almost always a full schedule.


1. So say they playing 25 tournaments for the day and total buyins are say 3000. Almost everyone charges a markup. First off, how does each player estimate their markup? I see some players charge 0 markup then others charge 1.1 others 1.15, 1.18, 1.2 and i see random 1.1286 etc and i have no clue where these numbers come from. Has anyone actually shown the math on how they arrived at this number?


2. So i see ppl say they have 3k worth of tournaments they are playing for the day and they selling say 40 percent. And let say its 1.15 markup which i dont really understand what the number means. So if that person is down money for that day, let say you bought 10 percent of that person. Yes assuming the person is down for the day... you are out the amount you invested. But if they are up money... say they are up 200 dollars. How much are you getting if you bought 10 percent of that person?
I don't even know how much is the 10 percent as i know each person puts like min 1 percent or 5 percent and each share is like 30 dollars or 100 etc. Can someone show me an example on this?


3. I heard markup is a scam. Is that true or false? I read that if someone sells at a markup they are essentially making money no matter what even if they lost every tournament. CAn someone explain this? I read someone mentioned how if a person sells at a very ridiculous high markup...they can basically freeroll everything or close to it. I dont see how that is possible unless theres something i dont get?

4. Why dont ppl just play lesser tournaments for the day and have lesser buyins and then dont sell shares online? Example if you win 1st place in a 22 or 55 dollar tournamnet, its nice but if you sold shares like 50 percent... that isn't nice because you basically playing for half their prize pool. If thats the case, why not just play 1/2 your buyin amts then? Yes if you bust every tournament for the day, you can be down 5k plus easily and thats a lot of money. Or 1k if you play smaller tournaments. I hear ppl say its for variance. So basically everyone does this b/c they want more opportunites to play more tournaments and thus have a chance at a bigger score the more tournaments they play as oppose to cutting tournamnets in 1/2 in buyins? I personally wouldnt want to ever have others buy shares in me as i know the prize i get wouldnt even be 100 percent and could be even as low as 30 percent.


5. So basically someone who invest say $500 on a package from someone... whats a good roi? Obviously anything positive is good but assuming that player you invested in got 1st place in a tournamnet where 1st place is at least $10000, thats a pretty nice investment right? I like to see an example such as someone investing say $500 or $1000 and how much they got paid after the person they bought shares from hit a big score.


6. What in the world does it mean when i see ppl saying they will roll it over? I think it has to do with them not playing a tournament then adding it to the next tournament?



7. Also why do ppl buy 1 or 5 percent of others. I see this quite a bit. Isn't this a waste of time as even if they get a big score, you aren't going to get paid much anyways? It seems like if you buying shares from someone online, you need to buy at least 20 percent of their action for it to be worth something signfifcant? I dont know but it seems pointless when i see lot of posters buy 1, 2 or 5 percent of a player.

Pauly,

1. Obviously, if your markup is higher than your expected ROI you are selling a losing package. The smaller markup you charge, the quicker you will sell your shares. A player with limited experience or results to show for will (should) charge a smaller markup than a proven big winner over a large sample. The 'random' 1.1286 is likely a result of rounding up or down (eg. if your buyins add up up to $886.05 it makes a nice even $1000 at 1.1286)

2. 3k of buyins @1.15 means 3000*1.15=$3450. If you buy 10%, you pay 3450*0.1=$345.
a. If the stakee cashes for $2000 (losing $1000) you receive $2000*0.1=$200. (you lose $145)
b. If the stakee cashes for $3000 (breaking even) you receive $3000*0.1=$300. (you lose $45, because of the markup)
c. If the stakee cashes for $4000 (winning $1000) you receive $4000*0.1=$400. (you win $55)

3. False. A fair markup is no scam. An unfair markup might be. It is possible to freeroll but even this is not (necessarily) a scam. If you sell 90% of your buyins at 1.2 you are freerolling ($100 buyins, you sell $90 at 1.2=$108) but since you still get 10% of cashes you still have an incentive to play your best.

4. There are a lot of reasons to sell shares and most of them have to do with limited resources.

5. A good ROI is like you said anything in the positive (after taking mu into consideration ofcourse) Look through the staking rails forum for examples.

6. Roll over means reinvesting money into a next package. For example, if I sell a package on Monday I would usually send investors their winnings after I finish playing. If they instead prefer to roll over their investment I will use the money for my next package on Tuesday for example.

7. Even people who invest have limited resources and may want to spread their investments over multiple players. And 1% of a Sunday Million win is still a decent chunk of cash for most people.

Thoughts on this?: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...-180s-1481700/

I am not a fan of sticking your nose in other peoples packages like mintberry does, but then again it looks like mtt316... is not exactly getting the best deal possible.

I don't see a problem with mints comment tbh. I have a problem understanding mtt's reasoning tho

He probably doesn't understand how it works

Can I sell my FTP account (which has 21m play chips) ?

no

Looking at the marketplace now apart from a select few all the packages are terrible. When you are buying just keep a eye out for things like selling for $50 and $100 turbos and hypers but not the big 55 big 109 etc. Good value red mtts.

The majority of daily sellers are just showing me which are the worst value mtts in their schedule and they keep the juicy stuff from themselves its a total con tbh. Didn't want to post this in the main selling thread as im sure all the exploiters will just jump in and berate me but take it for what its worth.

@U shove i call
why do u think that many marketplaceregs almost stoped buying shares

Good!

Glad to see people are becoming more aware of this angle shoot.

Agreed
MP is getting ridic every day
For example look at this pack
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...0-sng-1485084/

Apart from this the MU some players charge is highly unjustified
Many regs who were winning till 2011 and have been on a straight downward slope after that still show their over all profit and charge MU based on that when its apparent they simply cannot beat todays HS games

I used to buy a lot in MP but now when i look at the packs they seem to depressing

I have been investing in MP mostly live for the last month. I had a conversation with my boss the other day and he was interested in investing but he had some good questions. Staking live US based players in tournaments is simple and from all the research I've done, completely legal, his questions surrounded investing in Online players abroad while being in the United States.


His questions were:

1. Is it legal to buy action of online poker players, when online poker is not legal in our state.

2. Assuming we could get a stars account opened up, how strict is poker stars when it comes to playing requirements when it comes to xfers and withdrawals?


Any guidance would be appreciated.

Don't know if that belongs here. But I keep getting PMs from time to time with people trying to sell packages, single tournies or searching for long-term deals.
How is this handled best? Do you guys just ignore, answer, report to mods. Isn't this even against some MP rules?

just ignore those..

I have two horses playing MTT's on makeup, which I wanna try to sell.
What is the right forum to make a thread?

1. I believe it is
2. Pretty strict if you're not at least making an effort to play before cashing out.

I don't know where anything belongs here but

why can't i post a thread for selling shares....1st time user

Read the sticky. Hint, you won't be able to sell for quite some time.