When do you actualy stop?

Say, for illustration, that I stake a friend for $1k. He plays on Facebook for playmoney only, so it might not be a sound investment, but, hey, let's just have fun. He pays me 50% of his winning every monday. Losses are carried over.

Does the agreement stops?
Never?
When I've accumulated, say, $1500 in weekly payments, for a net profit of $500?
When he gives me back the whole $1000? (keeping all intermediary payments for myself)
When I've won an annual equivalent of 50% ROI? That would be $1500 in weekly payments over a year, or just ~$1250 after 6 months if he's fast.
After # hands?

Ok some ideas might be silly, but I never considered the staking business.
Thanks for suggestions.

You don't have to worry about profiting imo.

Thanks.
Another guy I know donks a few $100's every month. Any hope there either?
I think the former has more growth potential.
My questions still stand.

What do you do when your backee deviates from the plan? What kind of recourse should you take?

For example, I back a friend at a live game (1/2 and sometimes 2/5) and we were sitting at a particular table with a couple huge calling stations, guys that will call three barrels to the river with a pair of 4s. My backee and I had discussed our (i was also sitting) basic strategy to only fire when we have a good hand and not to try to bluff this particular table too much (specifically this one guy).

I see my backee's hole cards but he doesn't know this. He has 6d8d and raises on the button. Calling station limp/calls. Flop comes J52 rainbow, and station $12 (into a $20 pot). Backee raises to $30. Station shipps for $20 on top ($50 total) and my backee folds. I ask him wtf he was doing and he said he folded mid pair or some ****. I keep probing and he gets really defensive about his play. I finally told him that i saw his hole cards and threatened to never stake him again if he lied to me about some bull**** like that again.

What should I do about a backee that likes do deviate from basic strategy that we have laid out?

how do you know if your stakee is telling you the truth about how much they won each week? i am gessing you just have to take their word on it?

im generally playing at the same time as him

you realize that playing in a game with a shared bankroll and discussing a gameplan away from the table (not to mention looking at his hole cards) is colluding?

^^^^

1. i dont always look at his hole cards, he just happened not to have protected them well
2. its not like i play differently if we got into a pot heads up. When i get into a pot w/ him heads up, i try to crush him like any other donk

I just want to go ahead an re-emphasize the importance of this thread;

Doug this was a great tool and is awesome in addition to your SSNL vids on CR the last two weeks; keep up the good work!

Anyways, I am currently and have been in a staking agreement with the same guy for almost 3 months, and we did follow guidelines exactly as Doug outlines them, and its incredibly easy for me (the stakee) and the backer to be happier about things, and generally more easy about the topic.

I do have friends that have scammed people for stakes, so I stress with super caution that stakes can be stolen, so backup personal info on your horses is a must! I really think if your loaning out money for a stake and are generous enough to do that, the stakee should be willing to give the backer confidence in not scamming him out of money.

Just wanted to input my two cents; also if anyone needs help on details of staking/backing agreements I can help; I drafted good ones in the past for myself and friends.

-Joo

Unfortunatly there seem to be alot of scamming going on. I thought about investing, but it seems too risky now.

How do you go about setting rules and guidelines for staking someone for live cash games, since its mostly based on trust between stakee and staker.

Why are these guys your friends?

knew them before they were on 2p2

Tournament stakes, generally speaking, should be more favorable to the backer as the risk of going deep into makeup and them never being able to get out of it is much higher. Its a higher variance stake, and so it should be a bit more favorable imo.

Usually you have set tournaments your going to play, you always owe makeup, and you have a set profit split %. Pretty much like cash.

Its w/e you guys agree on at the start. That said though the way you talk sort of confuses me so im a bit lost here.

Dont stake him again imo.

Either

1) Mine the games
2) Pay someone to mine the games track it for you
3) Trust your guy

Hopefully though if youve picked well you can go with number 3, but having 1 or 2 alongside can never really hurt.

I mean, you have to have picked them well. I dont relaly know what else to tell you but trust is prety important.

imo if there's no trust just dont do it, even mining the games its pretty easy for him to 'lose' money in std spots to someone if thats what he want to do. Its as important as him playing good poker

WCG- How do you feel someone who can't afford to prove themselves at these stakes go about finding a backer. I find many people reluctant to stake without a proven track record at the level they want backing for. Is there a way round this or do you feel some former experience at that level would be nessacry?

Nice post Doug,

Assuming you put a decent amount of effort into choosing good stakees - roughly what % of them are you expecting to steal your money? Any stats on this would be really helpful in calculating exactly how many buy-ins you're going to give to each stakee at a time, and what percentage of winnings you need to take to be safe.

I mean why would someone stake someone without some sort of proof of winnings and a good track record. Sort of need experience to get experience but it is waht it is.

WCGRIDER

Have you staked people where you provided training as well? If so, did you make sure the person was obligated to play X number of hands? Do you feel you can trust your stakees when they tell you what their weekly results are?

Yes i normally provide some sort of coaching as long well as what im doing. No one is ever obligated to play a certian amount of hands daily, sort of needless pressure imo. And why do I keep getting the trust question over and over again. PIck someone you can trust but also datamine the games. If you cant datamine make sure you can trust them. Not so hard.