Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Coaching Advice This forum is to be used for general coaching questions and discussion. This forum is not intended to be a place where coaches advertise.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-27-2010, 05:36 PM   #126
Gregvenezia
old hand
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,334
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightToker View Post
Yes, you are missing something, and it's called the Berne convention, which the US signed in 1989.

"The 1886 Berne Convention first established recognition of copyrights among sovereign nations, rather than merely bilaterally. Under the Berne Convention, copyrights for creative works do not have to be asserted or declared, as they are automatically in force at creation. In these countries, there is no requirement for an author to "register" or "apply for" a copyright, or to mark his or her works with a copyright symbol or other legend. As soon as a work is "fixed", that is, written or recorded on some physical medium, its author is automatically entitled to all copyrights in the work, and to any derivative works unless and until the author explicitly disclaims them, or until the copyright expires."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_C...Artistic_Works
^ this. although after looking at that chart im not quite sure if this applies. it isnt like an ebook or anything, just a hand chart w/ a bunch of percentages and stuff.
Gregvenezia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 05:37 PM   #127
Gregvenezia
old hand
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,334
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus View Post
Just to correct myself here, it's actually a BRU not a BRO, which essentially is the same thing but it just means that he has accepted the allegations against him.

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/eiir/II...1&CaseType=BRU
so basically he filed bankruptcy and owes the UK govt ~60k or w/e that figure was?
Gregvenezia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 05:49 PM   #128
scorer
banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 3,479
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

he does vids for stox at nl 100 and people are paying this jerk 10 grand for coaching?????
scorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 05:55 PM   #129
dakota-xx
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Canton, Ga
Posts: 270
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus View Post
I'm not gonna pay to argue with a scammer on the internet, unfortunately.

I'll have a talk with someone I know who is a member there and see what we can come up with.
Sent you an email with pertinent information.
dakota-xx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 06:35 PM   #130
*TT*
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 22,858
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by buns View Post
Afaik that PLO guide has no copyright or whatever. It's a bunch of excel sheets given to one of his students. I'm just copying/pasting the link from Stox forums.

I have no clue how that thing is worth 2 grand :/
The guide/spreadsheet cannot be posted here without Jason's permission, no exceptions.
*TT* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 06:46 PM   #131
Digby
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 370
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

There is some serious tapping of the fish tank in this thread. The poker economy is going to be a lot worse without Jason Ho around.

Who cares how he got his money? The main fact is he was losing it. This is good for the poker economy.

If he can turn a few marginally winning players into losing players this is also good for the poker economy. its hard enough to make money as it is without removing Jason Ho form the poker games.

Its not like he was taking money from people and using it to buy stuff.

Poker is about taking advantage of th weak. Jason took advantage of players weaker than him and in turn, on the tables, he was taken advantage of. Thats poker. Any professional player who speaks out against Jason is a hypocrite.
Digby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 06:51 PM   #132
JerBear77
old hand
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: trying to scrape up some loose chips
Posts: 1,878
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *TT* View Post
I cannot comment on the innosence or guilt of Jason Ho, but I can say that there seems to be a common thread so far for the accusers - they all see to be naive. For example vassy's trust that it is safe to post his email address and skype name publicly in a community of 4 million + visitors a month, casper's sharing of his account, and their belief that they had the one coach who solved capped PLO but nobody else knows this secret except those who are coached by him is indicative of their naivety.

QFT. nh
JerBear77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 06:52 PM   #133
zachvac
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
zachvac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,726
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digby View Post
There is some serious tapping of the fish tank in this thread. The poker economy is going to be a lot worse without Jason Ho around.

Who cares how he got his money? The main fact is he was losing it. This is good for the poker economy.

If he can turn a few marginally winning players into losing players this is also good for the poker economy. its hard enough to make money as it is without removing Jason Ho form the poker games.

Its not like he was taking money from people and using it to buy stuff.

Poker is about taking advantage of th weak. Jason took advantage of players weaker than him and in turn, on the tables, he was taken advantage of. Thats poker. Any professional player who speaks out against Jason is a hypocrite.
I support taking money from people at poker with previously agreed-upon rules when we are on a fair playing field. I do not agree with promising people one thing in exchange for money then taking the money and not providing the service. If he had simply offered the coaching and the coaching sucked then it'd just be the fault of the people he was coaching. The fact that he stole money from them (or at least it seems that way, instead of responding to those allegations he responds with "prop bet to prove I'm a winning player") is the part that bothers me and most likely everyone else here.
zachvac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 06:57 PM   #134
Dorkus Malorkus
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 73
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digby View Post
There is some serious tapping of the fish tank in this thread. The poker economy is going to be a lot worse without Jason Ho around.

Who cares how he got his money? The main fact is he was losing it. This is good for the poker economy.

If he can turn a few marginally winning players into losing players this is also good for the poker economy. its hard enough to make money as it is without removing Jason Ho form the poker games.

Its not like he was taking money from people and using it to buy stuff.

Poker is about taking advantage of th weak. Jason took advantage of players weaker than him and in turn, on the tables, he was taken advantage of. Thats poker. Any professional player who speaks out against Jason is a hypocrite.
You are why a significant proportion of 'normal' people think that all serious poker players are deranged sociopaths. Just sayin'.
Dorkus Malorkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 06:58 PM   #135
Digby
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 370
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac View Post
I support taking money from people at poker with previously agreed-upon rules when we are on a fair playing field. I do not agree with promising people one thing in exchange for money then taking the money and not providing the service. If he had simply offered the coaching and the coaching sucked then it'd just be the fault of the people he was coaching. The fact that he stole money from them (or at least it seems that way, instead of responding to those allegations he responds with "prop bet to prove I'm a winning player") is the part that bothers me and most likely everyone else here.
But where do you think most losing players get their money from? THe gambling industry is supported by criminals with easy money from drugs etc or small time scammers who steal from their business etc to support their habit. Jason is no different to most big losing fish. Except apparently because he has scammed other poker players we must out him? Why, the number 1 thing is he is a scamming fish with a gambling probem. No one has ever cared about removing them from the game beofre. The more the merrier, most pros would say.

The fact that he scammed other poker players is secondary to the fact he is a big losing fish. He should not have been outed. He should have been alowed to carry on his fish compulsive gambling like all other players with a gambling problem.
Digby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 07:11 PM   #136
zachvac
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
zachvac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,726
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digby View Post
But where do you think most losing players get their money from? THe gambling industry is supported by criminals with easy money from drugs etc or small time scammers who steal from their business etc to support their habit. Jason is no different to most big losing fish. Except apparently because he has scammed other poker players we must out him? Why, the number 1 thing is he is a scamming fish with a gambling probem. No one has ever cared about removing them from the game beofre. The more the merrier, most pros would say.

The fact that he scammed other poker players is secondary to the fact he is a big losing fish. He should not have been outed. He should have been alowed to carry on his fish compulsive gambling like all other players with a gambling problem.
I have many friends I know that play poker recreationally. They enjoy the game, we play microstakes home games, and a few of them go up to AC (I never go since I'm not 21 yet ) to play some 1/2 in a casino. They also sometimes play stuff like blackjack, craps, and roulette. One of them said they have a certain amount of money in their budget ($500 or so usually I think) and they have fun there until it's gone. If they make money it's a bonus, it's entertainment. They have real jobs and earn their money honestly like most people.

Also take a look at people like Guy Laliberte. He essentially funded the nosebleed FTP games for awhile. Did he steal any of that money?

Unfortunately you are correct to some degree, but that's not all the fish in poker, some just enjoy the game and think it's worth the money to play. And some delude themselves into thinking they are winning players and gamble too much, but most of the time it is still their money. The ones who resort to crime/scamming to feed their gambling habit I like to think are in the minority, and I believe I'm right. Either way if poker became unprofitable if all the fish stopped committing crimes to fund their gambling habits, it would be worth it imo and should be to anyone making money off poker. Just my opinion but I think most regs are in this boat.
zachvac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 07:29 PM   #137
Digby
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 370
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac View Post
I have many friends I know that play poker recreationally. They enjoy the game, we play microstakes home games, and a few of them go up to AC (I never go since I'm not 21 yet ) to play some 1/2 in a casino. They also sometimes play stuff like blackjack, craps, and roulette. One of them said they have a certain amount of money in their budget ($500 or so usually I think) and they have fun there until it's gone. If they make money it's a bonus, it's entertainment. They have real jobs and earn their money honestly like most people.
Sorry I am talking about medium to high stake losers with gambling problems. The players that professional gamblers prey on.

Quote:
Also take a look at people like Guy Laliberte. He essentially funded the nosebleed FTP games for awhile. Did he steal any of that money?
YOu ever been to a cirque de soliel show? I know i felt ripped off. would argue at high stakes he is an exception, rather than a rule.

Quote:
Unfortunately you are correct to some degree, but that's not all the fish in poker, some just enjoy the game and think it's worth the money to play. And some delude themselves into thinking they are winning players and gamble too much, but most of the time it is still their money. The ones who resort to crime/scamming to feed their gambling habit I like to think are in the minority, and I believe I'm right. Either way if poker became unprofitable if all the fish stopped committing crimes to fund their gambling habits, it would be worth it imo and should be to anyone making money off poker. Just my opinion but I think most regs are in this boat.
Like i said, I am talking about the higher stakes. The recreational players are few and far between at these levels. And they dont keep the professionals ("the poker industry") afloat. What keeps the professionals afloat are complusive gamblers who suck.

Dusty Schmidt, as one example, knew that Jason Ho wasnt for real. Did he out him, No. Did he play against him and win money from him? Yes. That is no different to how Dusty targets other compulsive gamblers. He doesnt care where the player gets his money from, just that it is easy money. Thats Poker.
Digby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 07:57 PM   #138
jj179
adept
 
jj179's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Animal Realm
Posts: 789
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Suspecting something and knowing something for certain are not the same, especially in a game like poker. Dusty might have felt like Jason's advice was wrong but to prove it could have involved a lot of hands of experimentation, and since he doesn't see himself as a 'math guy' could have lacked the confidence needed to blow the whistle.

Besides, Jason had won a million bucks, right? And we all know that there are many different styles you can use to win, some being more suited to certain players than others. Also it's quite possible to be a winning player and have some leaks - it could be your opponents are not exploiting them or that the things you're doing right far outbalance the errors.

I wouldn't get too carried away with finger pointing and laying the blame at Stoxpoker either, it's obvious the guy is good at manipulating people. If you're charismatic or brass necked enough you can get away with scamming a ton of people (who perhaps should have known better) out of huge sums al la Bernie Madoff, heck even whole countries get scammed from time to time!
jj179 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 07:59 PM   #139
Fletch3000
stranger
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7
Re: JASON HO: SCAM

My dealing with Jason Ho.

I had just started learning poker, when I became a member of stoxpoker.com. Through this site, I found Jason Ho in January of 2009. His vids looked real good to a fish.. So, I paid him upfront for 10 sessions ($1000 usd). Since I was so new to poker, his lessons were more tailored to helping me start in learning poker so I cannot commit on his coaching ability, only on what happened during this time.

After our first session he would skype and email me about a new "Arbitrage" system he supposedly created for beating poker as well as business ideas of using this "system" in a sweat shop in Macau. Basically, he stated that he would hire 50 locals and pay them minimum wage to play his system and make money. I spoke with him a few times about this and he would always want to know how much money I had, and if i could
"buy in" to his business. He would contact me at wierd times, and thinking that my poker coach was going to call me and help me with my game, I would answer. But it wasnt about my poker..

I am a businessman in the US and deal with a lot of international deals. He knew this as we spoke openly about each others personal dealings. When he mentioned that he was fired from the investment banking industry, a red flag went about.

At the company I work for, I was given data notifying me that Jason H,o from Macau, was researching who I was and who I worked for. I let him know on our second training session that I knew he had researched me and inquired about what he found. It was during this session that he started to speak about his business idea and asked me to be a part of it. He mentioned that he had a poker group, but obviously I sucked too bad to be a part of it.

I repeatedly asked Jason for more information on this mysterious arbitrage system he supposedly created. He never would provide any info, only skillful language to get around the subject. I know what arbitrage is and I never could understand his mathematical logic in applying it to poker in the context he used.

After our 3rd session, Jason Ho informed me that he would only teach his "real students" that bought into this business, his "poker secrets." So I asked him if this meant that he would not teach me what I paid for and he said that was correct.

He asked me again how much cash I had and I stated to him I wouldnt put one penney into anything without knowing what it was that he was wanting to do. I asked him how much the buy-in was, and he stated $100 thousand, minimum.

The very next morning, I sent him an email to return the remainder of the money that I paid him to coach me, and that I no longer wished to use his services. Jason promptly returned $600 (even though I only had 3 real session, he counted the 2nd one as 2 sessions since we went over the 1 hour slotted time. I was fine with that, other than having paid him to be distracted most of the time and his continuous talking about this system/business, and not my game).

It left a bitter taste in my mouth. I thought about posting on 2+2 last year, but was too embarrassed with the results.

I was shocked to see this today, but at the same time I am not because I had a bad feeling about this guy.

Luckily, I got out of this situation. I feel for the others who did not..

If anyone has any questions about this, feel free to pm me.

ALso, after using PTR on all of his sn's that were made available, he is a loser on each one except the sn he used at stoxpoker.com - codenumber8. Guess I wasnt the fish I thought I was compared to him... lol

I hope that stoxpoker.com as well as other sites take preventive measures to ensure that all coaches they advertise are who they are. Also, I would like to know where stoxpoker.com came up with the 1m earnings and what measures that used to verify it.

I know that I wouldnt have used him if it werent for stoxpoker.com
Fletch3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 08:16 PM   #140
Micturition Man
Pooh-Bah
 
Micturition Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hater gonna hate!
Posts: 4,877
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

LMFAO at the coaching deal outlined in post #11. This guy was the Bernard Madoff of poker coaching.
Micturition Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 09:19 PM   #141
DamnRinger
Pooh-Bah
 
DamnRinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: the DR is in @damnringer
Posts: 4,333
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Oh wow... I'd never PTR'd up_2_me I play with the dude pretty regularly. Feel bad for the kid... hopefully that wasn't his money lost.
DamnRinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 09:40 PM   #142
strongsauce
grinder
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 684
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

His website tries to make him look suave. Sure sign tells that he is not a real poker coach since most coaches could gives a rats ass about a photoshoot with a paid model.

http://www.jasonhopoker.com/tiltviewer/index.html
strongsauce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 09:43 PM   #143
p-shootah
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 286
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT MOOSE View Post
hey moron, you want 50-1 that you can beat any limit you want on pokerstars for 6 months. go fk yourself idiot. find the nearest toaster + bathtub you can

+1
p-shootah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 09:43 PM   #144
strongsauce
grinder
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 684
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

I also find it funny that his reputation is essentially being dragged through the mud here and all he can come up with is a stupid challenge offering him really great odds.

If it was me and I was a "poker coach" and people were saying this **** the first thing I would post is my ONE MILLION DOLLARS graph and then offering to send hand histories to any neutral well-trusted 2p2er.

Barring that, at least something better than what is essentially HU4ROLLZ. No one wants to give you money because you're just going to dump it off in 5 minutes.
strongsauce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 09:51 PM   #145
LFE888
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 278
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by strongsauce View Post
His website tries to make him look suave. Sure sign tells that he is not a real poker coach since most coaches could gives a rats ass about a photoshoot with a paid model.

http://www.jasonhopoker.com/tiltviewer/index.html
wow i never saw that. hilarious pictures. it is quite obvious jason ho paid someone to shoot those photos.

pretty funny how in one of those pictures with the asian girl and the white guy at a poker table, the cage at the table is locked.
LFE888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 09:54 PM   #146
kawelljd
centurion
 
kawelljd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 162
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by strongsauce View Post
His website tries to make him look suave. Sure sign tells that he is not a real poker coach since most coaches could gives a rats ass about a photoshoot with a paid model.

http://www.jasonhopoker.com/tiltviewer/index.html
He looks like he is 3ft tall. The girl is probably his sister lolz.

"as you may know my style of preference is aggressive LAG." -from his site
kawelljd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 09:54 PM   #147
BarrieKid
journeyman
 
BarrieKid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Unbannable
Posts: 359
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Varnon View Post
Hi Guys.

I responded earlier in this thread that I am interviewing the key players that have publicly identified themselves and interviewing Jason Ho. I started that process last night and will continue that over the next several days.

It is natural to look for an official response. But it is not something I should do without talking personally to the rest of the people involved.

At the end of this process, it is my intent to publicly and openly communicate Stoxpoker's position on the following questions:

1. What was the nature of any arrangement between Jason and "the crew"? Was this a staking deal gone bad or a coaching issue?

2. Where does the culpability lie for the money lost? The parties here are Jason Ho, "the crew", and StoxPoker.

3. What are the lessons learned and, for StoxPoker's part, what action items will we take based on the lessons learned.

People that know me can attest to the fact that I am a very candid person. I just try to make sure I have all the facts first.

For now we will continue to gather as many facts as possible but at least you have an answer to "why hasn't Stox said anything" as of this point.



Regards,

Jim


This looks really bad on Stoxpoker/Cardrunners
Being open, honest and communicating is the best thing the can do.
Continue what you are doing.
BarrieKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 09:55 PM   #148
WAGN5R
newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 21
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by strongsauce View Post
His website tries to make him look suave. Sure sign tells that he is not a real poker coach since most coaches could gives a rats ass about a photoshoot with a paid model.

http://www.jasonhopoker.com/tiltviewer/index.html[
Worst site ever
WAGN5R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 09:57 PM   #149
buns
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 32
Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *TT* View Post
The guide/spreadsheet cannot be posted here without Jason's permission, no exceptions.
That's my bad sorry, I didn't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strongsauce View Post
I also find it funny that his reputation is essentially being dragged through the mud here and all he can come up with is a stupid challenge offering him really great odds.
Diversion tactics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LFE888 View Post
wow i never saw that. hilarious pictures. it is quite obvious jason ho paid someone to shoot those photos.

pretty funny how in one of those pictures with the asian girl and the white guy at a poker table, the cage at the table is locked.
He did pay for the photoshoot plus the model, hence the poses & makeup.
buns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 09:57 PM   #150
flight2q
old hand
 
flight2q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: waking up with cowboys
Posts: 1,258
Re: JASON HO: SCAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch3000 View Post
At the company I work for, I was given data notifying me that Jason H,o from Macau, was researching who I was and who I worked for. I let him know on our second training session that I knew he had researched me and inquired about what he found. It was during this session that he started to speak about his business idea and asked me to be a part of it.
[...]
He asked me again how much cash I had and I stated to him I wouldnt put one penney into anything without knowing what it was that he was wanting to do. I asked him how much the buy-in was, and he stated $100 thousand, minimum.
It sounds like Jason Ho works at his business very diligently.
flight2q is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online