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Old 01-27-2010, 04:21 PM   #101
LFE888
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Originally Posted by normalcy View Post
Up_2_Me is a student of Jason. This student went to Maccau for a 2 week intensive with Jason at the end of September thru the beginning of October of 2009.

Can you tell, by looking at the graph, when Jason started playing on his account?

http://www.pokertableratings.com/ful...search/up_2_me
feel sorry for all the people who got scammed. but jason ho 's videos speak for themselves. they are by far the worst videos with little to nothing to learn for even a break-even player.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:23 PM   #102
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Thumbs down Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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this just all seems like too much to me. why would anyone give jason ho access to their ftp account? why would anyone let him play on their account? why would anyone let him transfer money to someone else from their account without their permission first? obviously jason did a good amount of screening these people before scamming them to make sure they were complete morans. if you have even a small bit of a brain you would realize you were getting scammed from the moment he asked you to create an FTP account so that he can play on it?

however, i really do hope justice is had because from what i've read ITT jason basically abused these ppl for their lack of brains and almost certainly just stole money from them. my 2c.
I like when people insult guys that are already going thru hard times, you re a really nice guy, thx

Last edited by rollsucker; 01-27-2010 at 04:24 PM. Reason: bad english
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:36 PM   #103
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

this should be moved back to NVG so a borader audience is warned. in my opinion.

edit: but then again, this might be the more suitable forum.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:36 PM   #104
Jim Varnon
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Hi Guys.

I responded earlier in this thread that I am interviewing the key players that have publicly identified themselves and interviewing Jason Ho. I started that process last night and will continue that over the next several days.

It is natural to look for an official response. But it is not something I should do without talking personally to the rest of the people involved.

At the end of this process, it is my intent to publicly and openly communicate Stoxpoker's position on the following questions:

1. What was the nature of any arrangement between Jason and "the crew"? Was this a staking deal gone bad or a coaching issue?

2. Where does the culpability lie for the money lost? The parties here are Jason Ho, "the crew", and StoxPoker.

3. What are the lessons learned and, for StoxPoker's part, what action items will we take based on the lessons learned.

People that know me can attest to the fact that I am a very candid person. I just try to make sure I have all the facts first.

For now we will continue to gather as many facts as possible but at least you have an answer to "why hasn't Stox said anything" as of this point.



Regards,

Jim
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:43 PM   #105
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Take your time Jim; you seem like you have a reasonable head on your shoulders.
(But I'll be leading the mob if the Q's above, in addition to the Q of how JH came to be affiliated with Stox in the first place and whether any vetting of his 1M+ claims, aren't addressed down the road.)

Alright, I'm done with this matter barring any more posts from JH, Stox, or some other drama bomb.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:46 PM   #106
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Originally Posted by Jim Varnon View Post
1. What was the nature of any arrangement between Jason and "the crew"? Was this a staking deal gone bad or a coaching issue?

2. Where does the culpability lie for the money lost? The parties here are Jason Ho, "the crew", and StoxPoker.

3. What are the lessons learned and, for StoxPoker's part, what action items will we take based on the lessons learned
4. Why didn't Stox perform any kind of background check, leading to them providing their customers with incredibly misleading information? What went wrong and 'enabled' him to become affiliated with Stox in the first place?

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Originally Posted by skelm View Post
I think it's also important to highlight to people that Jason currently has an insolvency case open against him: http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/databas...ber=0014492008

Jason, Given this information I'd be interested to know whether you declared this to investors and also how you planned to have people invest in you in the first place (if you are being honest and open with the UK government then they would be able to seize this money at anytime to cover your still outstanding debt).

Last edited by skelm; Today at 09:51 AM. Reason: Mods note that Jason has openly admitted that this is in fact a claim against him in the corressponding StoxPoker thread
As someone who works for an insolvency practitioner in England (albeit more corporate-based than personal-based), can I ask what he said about this? There's no 'claim' at all of any sort - he is bankrupt and his conduct during the bankruptcy has been dishonest, hence a 4 year Bankruptcy Restrictions Order has been made against him (which is what the above link indicates), which in essence means he is subject to the conditions and restrictions of bankruptcy for 4 years from Sept 2009, even if he is discharged from formal bankruptcy prior to then.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:47 PM   #107
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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I had a look at the 'guide book' that Jason Ho was giving out to his students and I thought it was amateurish and laughable, not even vaguely the correct approach to learning poker.
Someone post this plz.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:49 PM   #108
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

When i have browsed the stox forum he always has threads active looking for new students and new poker camps and his fee's are large. He seemed to be more aggressive looking for students than the other coaches on there. Must be because thats how he makes his living cos it sure aint from playing cos this scumbag cant beat 100nl. There is no way this chump made a million playing poker. Over massive samples its obvious this wally is a mega fish.

Its quite obvious that he's a dirty, scummy, con artist. Now that this joke has been found out he'll probably con his way into a different field all together an steal from people all over again. I hope some day one of these guys catches up with him an lays him out.

Stox has a lot to answer for aswell. Mind you though he just conned them an he does seem to be good at it.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:57 PM   #109
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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I will only accept 50 or 100 to 1 odds
I wouldn't even give my little sister these odds. And she still thinks that a straight beats a flush. From your ptr graphs, it is apparent that you do also.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:00 PM   #110
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus View Post
As someone who works for an insolvency practitioner in England (albeit more corporate-based than personal-based), can I ask what he said about this? There's no 'claim' at all of any sort - he is bankrupt and his conduct during the bankruptcy has been dishonest, hence a 4 year Bankruptcy Restrictions Order has been made against him (which is what the above link indicates), which in essence means he is subject to the conditions and restrictions of bankruptcy for 4 years from Sept 2009, even if he is discharged from formal bankruptcy prior to then.
I'd love for you to post about this in the StoxPoker thread (http://www.stoxpoker.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29205). Jason and I went back on forth about this issue and I believe you'll be able to verify that he's incorrect on many points.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:05 PM   #111
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

I would like to say that apart from potential errors in hiring/promoting him in the first place, Stox seems to be handling this very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus View Post
As someone who works for an insolvency practitioner in England (albeit more corporate-based than personal-based), can I ask what he said about this? There's no 'claim' at all of any sort - he is bankrupt and his conduct during the bankruptcy has been dishonest, hence a 4 year Bankruptcy Restrictions Order has been made against him (which is what the above link indicates), which in essence means he is subject to the conditions and restrictions of bankruptcy for 4 years from Sept 2009, even if he is discharged from formal bankruptcy prior to then.
Since I don't think too many people here have any idea about insolvency law in the UK, can you expand on what that actually means? If he has £64,892 in his possession (or w/e the USD equivalent is) does he owe this as soon as he acquires it? Is it like bankruptcy in the US where once he files future earnings can not be taken? I don't have much of a knowledge of US bankruptcy laws let alone UK ones.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:05 PM   #112
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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I'd love for you to post about this in the StoxPoker thread (http://www.stoxpoker.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29205). Jason and I went back on forth about this issue and I believe you'll be able to verify that he's incorrect on many points.
I'm not gonna pay to argue with a scammer on the internet, unfortunately.

I'll have a talk with someone I know who is a member there and see what we can come up with.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:06 PM   #113
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

he would have to be a member to post there i think.
i think Jim you will find the right actions to take. I have no doubts about that.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:07 PM   #114
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus View Post
I'm not gonna pay to argue with a scammer on the internet, unfortunately.

I'll have a talk with someone I know who is a member there and see what we can come up with.
Not a problem, I understand completely. The only reason I'd done it myself was that it came out prior to members coming forward and was at the time the larger issue and brought the original questions up about his credibility.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:09 PM   #115
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Even if it's total crap and if he's a scammer, that plo book is still his work and copyrighted material and I'd guess uploading it and posting it here is illegal. Unless he consented to have it distributed this is still wrong and hopefully a 2p2 mod can take it down.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:12 PM   #116
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Even if it's total crap and if he's a scammer, that plo book is still his work and copyrighted material and I'd guess uploading it and posting it here is illegal. Unless he consented to have it distributed this is still wrong and hopefully a 2p2 mod can take it down.
nowhere in the file does it say copyright jason ho or any other name. so thus, i don't see a problem having it distributed.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:13 PM   #117
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

did anyone download that plo guide someone posted?

i did and i cant understand anything lol
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:15 PM   #118
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Afaik that PLO guide has no copyright or whatever. It's a bunch of excel sheets given to one of his students. I'm just copying/pasting the link from Stox forums.

I have no clue how that thing is worth 2 grand :/
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:16 PM   #119
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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nowhere in the file does it say copyright jason ho or any other name. so thus, i don't see a problem having it distributed.
Do you understand anything about copyright law? I'm no expert but any work such as this or music or stuff like that is copyrighted by virtue of him creating it. Obviously registering with the copyright office and putting that stuff on your work helps if there were to be a legal case with proof and such, but just because intellectual property does not have the copyright explicitly written does not mean his work is not protected legally.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:21 PM   #120
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Originally Posted by zachvac View Post
Even if it's total crap and if he's a scammer, that plo book is still his work and copyrighted material and I'd guess uploading it and posting it here is illegal. Unless he consented to have it distributed this is still wrong and hopefully a 2p2 mod can take it down.
Thank you for your concerns.

An initial look reveals that there may be no reason to take it down. If somebody else is seeing something I am not, please PM me.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:28 PM   #121
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Originally Posted by zachvac View Post
Since I don't think too many people here have any idea about insolvency law in the UK, can you expand on what that actually means? If he has £64,892 in his possession (or w/e the USD equivalent is) does he owe this as soon as he acquires it? Is it like bankruptcy in the US where once he files future earnings can not be taken? I don't have much of a knowledge of US bankruptcy laws let alone UK ones.
Without going into too much detail, in general any material assets that a bankrupt acquires are required to be used to facilitate payment to his creditors. With something like wages it can get complicated, but often the Official Receiver (who handles the bankruptcy) will apply for an Income Payments Order which allows the bankrupt to keep a portion of his income that he requires for essential living costs, but requires the surplus to be surrendered for distribution among the bankrupt's creditors.

If, on the other hand, a bankrupt's mother dies and leaves him £50k in her will or something (in other words an 'unexpected' asset is obtained during the bankruptcy), that whole amount will invariably go to the creditors (assuming the bankrupt's debt is >£50k of course).

I have no idea where "money obtained for providing services on an online poker training site" would fall, to be honest, although it is income and as such would certainly be required to be declared to the Official Receiver (and I'd bet that in Jason's case it hasn't). I'll fish about for more info at work tomorrow (as I said I deal more with corporate than personal insolvency, so I only have as much of an understanding of personal insolvency as I needed for an exam last November).

Last edited by Dorkus Malorkus; 01-27-2010 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:29 PM   #122
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRy View Post
Thank you for your concerns.

An initial look reveals that there may be no reason to take it down. If somebody else is seeing something I am not, please PM me.
Yes, you are missing something, and it's called the Berne convention, which the US signed in 1989.

"The 1886 Berne Convention first established recognition of copyrights among sovereign nations, rather than merely bilaterally. Under the Berne Convention, copyrights for creative works do not have to be asserted or declared, as they are automatically in force at creation. In these countries, there is no requirement for an author to "register" or "apply for" a copyright, or to mark his or her works with a copyright symbol or other legend. As soon as a work is "fixed", that is, written or recorded on some physical medium, its author is automatically entitled to all copyrights in the work, and to any derivative works unless and until the author explicitly disclaims them, or until the copyright expires."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_C...Artistic_Works
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:29 PM   #123
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Oh sorry reading Stox forum thread and got to the point where basically it's just a hand chart and he justified it to basically scam a student out of 2k rather than like something he was selling for 2k. I was picturing it as like the ebooks that balugawhale, slowhabit, etc. were putting out and charging around that price range. Didn't realize it was just an excell sheet with hand chart lol.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:32 PM   #124
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Do you understand anything about copyright law? I'm no expert but any work such as this or music or stuff like that is copyrighted by virtue of him creating it. Obviously registering with the copyright office and putting that stuff on your work helps if there were to be a legal case with proof and such, but just because intellectual property does not have the copyright explicitly written does not mean his work is not protected legally.
i admit i do not know much about copyright laws, but i believe in most countries, a copyright occurs when a work is original and exhibits some degree of skill or analysis.

example: i can't copyright an excel spreadsheet that shows a multiplication table.

now i guess it is subjective to say whether the jason ho omaha document is "original" or contains his personal analysis. but in my browsing of the document, it is basically a handchart with limited if any, "original" concepts.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:35 PM   #125
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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hence a 4 year Bankruptcy Restrictions Order has been made against him (which is what the above link indicates), which in essence means he is subject to the conditions and restrictions of bankruptcy for 4 years from Sept 2009, even if he is discharged from formal bankruptcy prior to then.
Just to correct myself here, it's actually a BRU not a BRO, which essentially is the same thing but it just means that he has accepted the allegations against him.

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/eiir/II...1&CaseType=BRU
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