Hi all,

I was looking to improve my understanding of monkersolver and earlier this year got a recommendation from a friend who was pleased with the value he got from a specific coach. This coach charges 150/hr but offered a 20% discount for 5 hours up front, and given I had a personal recommendation, I didn't hesitate to prepay 600 for 5 hours. Out first session was on March 24th and we ended up going for 90 minutes.

I didn't end up getting much value out of the session (can expand on this if needed) and after it ended neither of us contacted the other again. Fast forward six months, I e-mailed the coach earlier this week explaining I didn't get much out of the session and wouldn't be completing the rest, and asking for a pro-rated refund of what I had sent (his base rate of 150/hr @ 90 minutes makes 225, so balance of 375 owed).

He responded in a few hours offering to refund the 375 via Euro on Paypal. I missed the e-mail for a few days, but responded yesterday asking if he could send USD on any of the poker sites we might both be on. To my surprise I got the following response:

"I have had more time to think about this now, and I have also consulted with other coaches, and I think that given the circumstances a refund is not warranted. Especially after so much time has passed.

If there was an issue with the coaching agreement, this should have been communicated much sooner, and not nearly six months after the first session. My policy is not to refund under these circumstances."

Is this really standard or acceptable behavior from a poker coach? If others agree that a refund is not warranted I would appreciate if you could help me understand why.

Very unprofessional and unethical a refund is warranted especially at base rate, it is very kind of you offering this in spit of got nothing out of the session

You really shouldn't have waited 6 months. That said if you were my student I would refund the prorated amount.

I think it is wrong for someone to ask to be paid for work they didn't do.

It is the coaches task to design / provide a schedule which suits both the student and their content. Scheduling coaching sessions too close in time frame or not scheduling follow-up sessions at all its almost the same.

Obviously when they are running a scam they don't need think about these.

I seem to remember Carroters stating in a free RIO vid, that he doesn't refund, and thought a student who wanted a refund on a 25 session bundle, was somehow out of order! He did say that it's in his T's & C's, so he was within his rights to refuse.

Regarding the OP. No offence, but you sound difficult to deal with. Time lapses, not accepting the coaches payment options, when you were getting generous courtesy refund. Also, the coach has to beware of getting scammed in some way, so the refund method is definitely up to him.

Yeah OP likely was not tried to get coaching from a certified clown but that's just a hard guess.

how would the coach be getting scammed?

If anything the coach should be happy he had that money at his possession without providing anything in return the whole time but we can always learn something new so let's have a go at it Tubi

I worded it (the coach has to beware of getting scammed in some way) , as we are obviously not all aware of all scam methods. We just have to be careful of strange behavior. Like long delays, implausible reasons, and alternative refund options.
I sell online, and I would advise people to only refund by the method they were paid, to the same name/ account that paid them. Especially PP, so they can't make a later chargeback, even though you refunded them another way.


Because a coach might only accept a few students at a time, due to time constraints. Your booking might have caused him to decline other new students. It's pretty standard for all types of tuition.

I can't see any angle from which the coach needs to be wary of potentially being scammed. Not sure how a long delay increases the risk of a scam. Not sure how you could view my perspective that I don't see value in paying for this coaching as being "implausible." I prepaid for 5 hours of coaching based on someone I know recommending this coach. I completed the first session almost immediately after paying. I didn't follow up with the coach for 6 months - clearly I was unhappy with the coaching and wasn't interested in continuing.

I sent USD on Paypal which he paid a fee to convert to Euro; he knew I am American. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a refund in my actual currency. And I don't think it would have been unreasonable for him to say no, I only have Euro on Paypal, that's all I can send. It seems like you must be posting in bad faith for you to view my asking for a refund in my native currency as a potential avenue for a scam. If the guy thinks he is not talking to the person he coached he can simply ask for a voice/video chat to confirm it's the same person he had on the coaching session six months ago. He's not even saying anything of that nature, he's just claiming (after initially agreeing to refund my money) that his policy is to offer no refunds, and that he says he has consulted with many other coaches who agree he should not refund my money. Which is what I would call him perpetrating a scam, certainly not being the victim of a scam.

I pre-booked 5 hours. It was agreed upon that we would have to schedule sessions ahead of time based on the coach's availability, so I'm not sure what you're saying makes any sense. You'd have to have hundreds of students for this to be a concern. And if you did, refunding one student for a few hours of your hourly rate seems completely trivial.

I'm holding out hope of a resolution today, otherwise will out him and post details of our correspondence in this thread.

Ok. I won't waste your time Karen, as you will be busy doxing the coach and trying to get him cancelled for your ineptitude in waiting six months, then changing the refund method.
You'll only change the story again anyway, accuse me of bad faith, and come up with ludicrous " You'd have to have hundreds of students for this to be a concern" .
Peace Out

I think you did the coach and his future students a disservice by not providing feedback on the coaching after you decided it wasn't a good value. I also think it's uncouth to wait six months before contacting him and requesting the refund. That said, if I were the coach I'd refund you and I think it's unprofessional of him to renege after he agreed.

Were you made aware of his policies and terms before you sent the funds?

Are you saying your silence implies dissatisfaction with the coaching? I don't think that's true. You're presumably a busy dude and it's been a wild six months for just about everyone - things happen. If you were unhappy with the coaching, the onus is yours to provide that feedback to the coach, especially if you're expecting a refund.

Nope. He promptly replied to my first e-mail and agreed to refund me (in EUR). Only when I asked if he had any way to send me USD did he suddenly announce that he has a policy of not refunding. He also (in the same e-mail) stated that he also has a policy that all coaching must be complete within 6 months, which I also called him out for as just being something he made up and sent me, and he agreed that he had not stated either "policy" to me at any point in our prior communication.

No, more responding to the idea that it is implausible that I would contact him after six months and say I wasn't happy with the coaching and would like a prorated refund of the unused hours.

I agree I should have contacted him sooner. But at the end of the day I don't see how that has any bearing on him keeping (stealing?) my money.

This makes me wonder why didn't he point to these policies or mention them when you requested the refund. Also why would he need to talk to other coaches about it if these are his policies?

Does he know about this thread? It'd be good to hear why he rescinded on the refund.

I guess because he's trying to scam me. He has since walked back his claim that he has a policy that all coaching must be completed in six months, as he agrees this was never stated anywhere. But he still claims that he has a no-refund policy (again, never stated anywhere) and has now told me he will no longer reply to any e-mail about the refund, he will only respond to e-mails about booking furthers sessions.

Yes, I sent him the link after he claimed that he had spoken to several coaches and everyone told him it was industry standard not to refund me. I invited him to have any of the coaches he spoke to post in this thread with their thoughts, which as we've seen didn't happen.

Both of you could have followed up sooner but he's not providing any utility to you in exchange for the remaining $375. Your number is completely fair, that should just be the end of it so this not being resolved is getting sketchy fast.

Tubi is just posting nonsense.

Seems reasonable to post correspondence and name & shame at this point.

I disagree, I think the coach should at least be made aware of this thread before taking the step suggested in the last post.

I think it's a highly nuanced issue actually with arguments on both sides, but I'm not going to weigh in on that.

To repeat, I made him aware of this post the day I posted it. I have no idea whether he is following the thread or not.

would love to understand the nuance here, as i am missing it.



Here are our last few e-mails:

my response:

response i received this morning:

my response:

it is truly hilarious he is trying to threaten me to accept his "deal" by going public and posting a response to my claims. as if i didn't link him to this thread four days ago and request a public response.

can anyone can make sense of his "freeroll" argument and ELI5?

OP and his friend sound like a headache. If you didn’t like the session you should have addressed it immediately after the session. It sounds like you didn’t care for 6months until now when you are having money issues. Def can’t expect to get a full refund from a package unless agreed otherwise. Would hope for a partial refund at best.

try reading the thread first, all-star. no one expects a full refund.

This is absolute nonsense. The "penalty" is you not getting the discounted rate and paying the normal rate like you offered. Taking an additional $150 for nothing is on the verge of stealing. This person's explanation makes me question his math abilities and if he is qualified to coach poker at all.

I understand that the non discounted single hour fee is €150. And that is not in dispute.

€150e (the non discount bulk rate) x 1.5 hours = €225. That figure means no free rolling or marginal gains for student.

It’s irrelevant whether your gave 600,750, or 1500. Whatever you paid should be returned minus 225.

They could always be awkward and claim an “admin fee”. That would be poor form, low cost airline style, but the current position of “we need to add X and takeaway Y” sounds like an effort to confuse you, and a bit disingenuous. It could of course be a misunderstanding.

Not sure I follow the currency argument. The service is provided in euro, if your account charges for converting a euro transaction than that is not the company/providers problem. I would be returning you whatever you paid minus 225 in euro, via a means that doesn’t see me incur a fee.