Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Coaching Advice This forum is to be used for general coaching questions and discussion. This forum is not intended to be a place where coaches advertise.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-13-2016, 02:02 PM   #1
jayme87
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,858
life coaches

anyone have experience with mindset coaches ect? thoughts? i hear good things about elliot roe although seems steep prices per session. is it really worth it, any one with second hand experience give me some sort of experience on it? thanks , jamie bury
jayme87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2016, 07:37 AM   #2
SonOfBadger
adept
 
SonOfBadger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oxford, England
Posts: 1,002
Re: life coaches

I coach mental game, it's incredibly valuable in my opinion. My rates come in quite a bit under Elliott's, though I am not a hypnotherapist I think his sessions are really good, have had some myself. Contact me for a free consult, contact@binkbig.com
SonOfBadger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 05:16 PM   #3
RTinnion
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 326
Re: life coaches

Have been working with Elliot coming up on 2 years, and have him working with the top guys in my stable, cannot recommend him enough.

A lot of it comes down to how willing you are to implement his/others processes, so go into it with an open mind and be willing to take yourself out of your comfort zone. If you aren't already in that mindset and prepared to leave your ego at the door then you'll be burning money.
RTinnion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 07:39 PM   #4
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,050
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayme87 View Post
anyone have experience with mindset coaches ect? thoughts? i hear good things about elliot roe although seems steep prices per session. is it really worth it, any one with second hand experience give me some sort of experience on it? thanks , jamie bury
Roe use to advertise on Two Plus Two but we concluded that we should not accept his advertising any more and refunded money for advertising that was paid for but had not yet run. So that's our opinion of his stuff.

Best wishes,
Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 07:40 PM   #5
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,050
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfBadger View Post
I coach mental game, it's incredibly valuable in my opinion. My rates come in quite a bit under Elliott's, though I am not a hypnotherapist I think his sessions are really good, have had some myself. Contact me for a free consult, contact@binkbig.com
We think Roe's stuff has no value.

Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 09:49 PM   #6
RTinnion
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 326
Re: life coaches

If anyone has any doubts in Elliots abilities, just ask Fedor Holz.
RTinnion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 12:36 AM   #7
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,050
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTinnion View Post
If anyone has any doubts in Elliots abilities, just ask Fedor Holz.
You may want to look at this thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/33...?highlight=roe

Holtz posts as CrownUpGuy and his first post is No. 35.

And again, we told Roe (and Jared Tendler) that they would not be allowed to advertise on this site anymore and we refunded money to both of them.

Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 06:15 AM   #8
Akroma
See my coaching listing
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 227
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
You may want to look at this thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/33...?highlight=roe

Holtz posts as CrownUpGuy and his first post is No. 35.

And again, we told Roe (and Jared Tendler) that they would not be allowed to advertise on this site anymore and we refunded money to both of them.

Mason
Do you have any evidence that their coaching is of 0 value? Im not saying its valuable. I am just curious because I have considered getting coaching from them. But to reconsider I would need some actual evidence its not worth it.
Akroma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 12:50 PM   #9
OhHiIamNew
banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 12
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
You may want to look at this thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/33...?highlight=roe

Holtz posts as CrownUpGuy and his first post is No. 35.

And again, we told Roe (and Jared Tendler) that they would not be allowed to advertise on this site anymore and we refunded money to both of them.

Mason
Isn't that thread just Holtz saying he really trusts Roe, he disagrees with everything you say and explains how you can't backup anything you say?
OhHiIamNew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 01:01 PM   #10
WALMARTcnxn
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ravaging Post Flop
Posts: 1,282
Re: life coaches

I have had 5 sessions with Elliot spanned over the last ~12 months. I have nothing but positive things to say. He also works with a lot of the end bosses in the game and can help get your mindset on their level. At the very least I think he has a free consultation or something for a reduced price (of maybe it's free). Definitely recommend giving that a shot. Price is steep but if you think about the ROI in your life+poker that you can reap if your mindset is on an elite level...
WALMARTcnxn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 06:51 PM   #11
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,050
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by WALMARTcnxn View Post
I have had 5 sessions with Elliot spanned over the last ~12 months. I have nothing but positive things to say. He also works with a lot of the end bosses in the game and can help get your mindset on their level. At the very least I think he has a free consultation or something for a reduced price (of maybe it's free). Definitely recommend giving that a shot. Price is steep but if you think about the ROI in your life+poker that you can reap if your mindset is on an elite level...
Hi WALMARTcnxn:

It just so happens that there is current a thread in our Psychology Forum where some of this same stuff is being addressed, and you may want to look at it:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/26...layer-1637393/

I also understand, and correct me if I have this wrong, that Roe charges $249 for a one hour session. So this means that you have already spent over $1,200.00 on this stuff.

By the way, people who go to The Choice Center spend a lot more than $1,200.00 and one well known name in poker raves about this place. But it doesn't mean it has any value.

Best wishes,
Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 06:54 PM   #12
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,050
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhHiIamNew View Post
Isn't that thread just Holtz saying he really trusts Roe, he disagrees with everything you say and explains how you can't backup anything you say?
And after David Sklansky and myself explained to him that what he was saying was flat out wrong, Holtz announced he was done posting in the thread.

MM
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 07:25 PM   #13
OhHiIamNew
banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 12
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
...Holtz announced he was done posting in the thread.

MM
lol, he did not say it like you're describing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownUpGuy View Post
It seems like you didnt get my point and I feel like to keep answering your (missguiding) arguments won't get anywhere.
he said it's not even worth the time to try to tell you how wrong you are.
OhHiIamNew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 08:00 PM   #14
jayme87
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,858
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTinnion View Post
Have been working with Elliot coming up on 2 years, and have him working with the top guys in my stable, cannot recommend him enough.

A lot of it comes down to how willing you are to implement his/others processes, so go into it with an open mind and be willing to take yourself out of your comfort zone. If you aren't already in that mindset and prepared to leave your ego at the door then you'll be burning money.
thanks for the response rob, i do suffer some anxiety off the tables and in turn it affects my life , the only ego i have is at the poker tables im afraid, i wear my heart on my sleeve in most cases
jayme87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 09:49 PM   #15
jayme87
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,858
Re: life coaches

Interesting 2+2 stopped allowing mental gsme/ life coaches on 2+2 .Any reason why they wernt allowed to advertise on the site without having to go through lots of threads

Last edited by jayme87; 11-16-2016 at 10:07 PM.
jayme87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 10:15 PM   #16
WALMARTcnxn
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ravaging Post Flop
Posts: 1,282
Re: life coaches

Thanks Mason. Yes, I may have spent 1200$ but the benefits (both monetarily and non-monetarily) much outweigh the cost from my personal experience. I have no choice but to recommend Elliot to one of my friends. Thanks for your opinion on Elliot's work, as this is a public forum. Perhaps you could refer us to some coaches that you believe would be better suited for the job?

Walmart
WALMARTcnxn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 10:44 PM   #17
mike1270
adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 837
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
We think Roe's stuff has no value.

Mason
While I like Elliot's podcast I don't really know what value his coaching might have or not have. I doubt it is zero. You seem to be making a judgement that it is not worth his current hourly.

If value provided based on rate/cost of coaching is you metric for deciding which coaches are allow to have a thread on 2+2, you might want to have a hard look at other coaches.

Also if you are removing Elliot with this logic you are implying everyone listed has you endorsement?
mike1270 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 12:16 AM   #18
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,050
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhHiIamNew View Post
lol, he did not say it like you're describing.

he said it's not even worth the time to try to tell you how wrong you are.
Why don't you get your facts straight.

On the Roe Podcast Holtz talked about the difference between being 98 and 100 percent confident. In Post No. I wrote the following:

Quote:
He then goes on to talk about the difference between being 100 percent confident and 98 percent confident. This reminded me of two players debating proper strategy during a hand when the decision is quite close. It doesn't matter.

Another way of looking at 98 versus 100 percent is as follows. Suppose someone bets, it's now your turn and you're 100 percent confident that the best play is to raise. I think you'll raise. Now suppose instead of being 100 percent confident you're only 98 percent confident that the raise is the best play. Well, again, I think you'll raise.
In Post No. 35 Holtz writes:

Quote:
Where do you get this knowledge from? How can you say it doesn't matter? Every professional high/sky-stakes player is at "98%" already (although we probably rather are at 70% if you compare it to GTO.)

The difference between 98% and 100% "confidence" in the things you're doing (not only 3 options of "check/fold/bet(raise)", but thousands of options with different betsizings and raisesizings possible will be the difference between those players that are slightly winning or winning a lot. Examples below.
In Post No. 36 I write:

Quote:
Fedor:

I'm just going to comment on a couple of things. First, I thought your interview with Elliot was below par and that's because my book doesn't say things in the way they were presented to you.

Second, let's look at this 98 versus 100 decisions stuff and how a good statistician would look at it. First, in the 98 cocisions, we're done. As for the two incorrect decisions the question that would be asked is how severe is the incorrect decision? If it's severe enough, and costs you all your chips, then you may need a lot of improvement in your game. But I doubt that this would be the case with a top player.
In Post No. 90 David Sklansky writes:

Quote:
This is silly. If the 2% of the time you are wrong you are still close it hardly amounts to anything. And any player who is right 98% will be close the other 2%.
Now you tell me where we have this wrong.

MM
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 12:28 AM   #19
OhHiIamNew
banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 12
Re: life coaches

Try to get Holtz to say he quit posting because he realized you're right. He wouldn't say that. He quit posting because you won't give it up and just admit you don't know anything about this field. No point in me posting again, you'll just say random stuff and never drop it or admit you're wrong.

He quit posting cause your book is awful (look at the Amazon reviews, other than the one you had someone write), and the real reason you banned effective mental coaches from having threads is because you just wrote a book and thought that would help the book not fail like it did.
OhHiIamNew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 12:30 AM   #20
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,050
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1270 View Post
While I like Elliot's podcast I don't really know what value his coaching might have or not have. I doubt it is zero. You seem to be making a judgement that it is not worth his current hourly.

If value provided based on rate/cost of coaching is you metric for deciding which coaches are allow to have a thread on 2+2, you might want to have a hard look at other coaches.

Also if you are removing Elliot with this logic you are implying everyone listed has you endorsement?
Hi Mike:

You actually raise a good point which I want to address here. We have stated many times on these forums that one of the things we try to do is to steer our users towards those things which we believe are good, whether it's our product or not, and away from those things which we think are questionable.

When working on my psychology book, I became familiar with some of the work of these poker mental coaches and concluded that at best it had virtually no value. Thus we stopped the advertising from both Tendler and Roe, and refunded money that they had paid us for which advertising had not yet run. (Cardner was not advertising with us.)

On the other hand. You'll noticed ads for Upswing Poker on twoplustwo.com. We're familiar with much of their material and think highly of it.

Now this brings us to the rest of the coaches. Here, we don't know one way or the other. So the first time you go to our Coaches Forum where the coaches have their advertising threads, you have to click off on a warning that basically says that anything you purchase you're doing at your own risk.

Best wishes,
Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 12:02 PM   #21
OhHiIamNew
banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 12
Re: life coaches

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhHiIamNew View Post
Try to get Holtz to say he quit posting because he realized you're right. He wouldn't say that. He quit posting because you won't give it up and just admit you don't know anything about this field. No point in me posting again, you'll just say random stuff and never drop it or admit you're wrong.

He quit posting cause your book is awful (look at the Amazon reviews, other than the one you had someone write), and the real reason you banned effective mental coaches from having threads is because you just wrote a book and thought that would help the book not fail like it did.
bump
OhHiIamNew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 03:19 PM   #22
WALMARTcnxn
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ravaging Post Flop
Posts: 1,282
Re: life coaches

^I believe you are talking about "Holz" and Mason is talking about a different player "Holtz", hence all the confusion.
WALMARTcnxn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 03:43 PM   #23
OhHiIamNew
banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 12
Re: life coaches

first, no, I think they're the same person. I looked up Fedor's episode on the podcast with Elliot and he goes by CrownUpGuy, which is the poster Mason linked to.
http://www.pokermindcoach.com/episod...-to-greatness/


even if they are different, it makes even less sense then for Mason. Here a poster says Mason's view of Elliot is wrong, just ask Fedor Holz, who we all know, who supports him:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTinnion View Post
If anyone has any doubts in Elliots abilities, just ask Fedor Holz.
But Mason says "oh well look at what this Holtz guy said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
You may want to look at this thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/33...?highlight=roe

Holtz posts as CrownUpGuy and his first post is No. 35.
it gets even worse when if you read that thread correctly. CrownUpGuy is really just saying that there's no point in arguing with Mason because Mason will just keep it up and never admit he's wrong about everything. What else could this mean???

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownUpGuy View Post
It seems like you didnt get my point and I feel like to keep answering your (missguiding) arguments won't get anywhere.
CrownUpGuy says Mason just will not get his point, and he's tired of answering Mason's "(missguiding) arguments."

And Mason thinks this is supporting his view??
OhHiIamNew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 03:58 PM   #24
OhHiIamNew
banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 12
Re: life coaches

in b4 Mason posts a whole lot of words that he says are proving the opposite, even though they're not.

we can make this sample: Mason, get Fedor himself to post and say he disagrees with Elliot but supports your view. It won't happen.

This is exactly what Fedor was talking about when he says he's not getting anywhere and Mason will just try to keep it up with misguided arguments.

Your book failed, Mason, live with it.
OhHiIamNew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 02:03 PM   #25
mike1270
adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 837
Re: life coaches

so funny that this pop ad now right next to this thread on 2+2

https://gyazo.com/34fb7655abafaa63b7f023eb3576de97
mike1270 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online