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Old 02-01-2018, 07:34 AM   #1
Giraff
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I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

My friend is thinking about hiring Thomas Pinnock to coach him in poker. Thomas Pinnock is a moderator on Up Swing poker`s Facebookpage and on the Up Swing poker webpage they push him like this:

"Thomas Pinnock is a math whiz and Upswing member turned GTO wizard. When not preparing for his MD exams, he’s either playing poker, crunching numbers in the lab, or coaching. Get in touch on Facebook."

I am convinced that this guy is a micro/low stakes player and that my friend should spend his money better. Thing is that Thomas Pinnock very often mention that he writes articles for Up swing poker but at the same time he refuses to say what stakes he plays at. He also has made it a habit of deleting his posts on the Up Swing poker Facebookpage after other members claimed that he is wrong about something.

Anyone has any advice? You recommend Thomas Pinnock as a poker coach? Why on earth would a coach refuse to say what stakes he plays at?

Last edited by Giraff; 02-01-2018 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:41 AM   #2
mayd_dawg
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Re: I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

I personally think that any coach who hides what stakes he plays at, nevermind winrate, volume etc etc should be avoided. While I can't comment on this particular dude and he obviously has some credentials due to being affiliated with Upswing, I think your friend's money would best be spent elsewhere- perhaps on a coach that would be able to debate rather than deleting posts (I assume about strat?)
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Old 02-01-2018, 10:39 AM   #3
Giraff
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Re: I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

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Originally Posted by mayd_dawg View Post
I personally think that any coach who hides what stakes he plays at, nevermind winrate, volume etc etc should be avoided. While I can't comment on this particular dude and he obviously has some credentials due to being affiliated with Upswing, I think your friend's money would best be spent elsewhere- perhaps on a coach that would be able to debate rather than deleting posts (I assume about strat?)
Yes, that is exactly why I have doubts about this coach. I can not find one logical reason of why he would do this other than that he has something to hide.
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Old 02-01-2018, 10:44 AM   #4
mayd_dawg
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Re: I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

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Originally Posted by Giraff View Post
Yes, that is exactly why I have doubts about this coach. I can not find one logical reason of why he would do this other than that he has something to hide.
It's probably nothing too sinister, just that he's playing too low / doesn't have the winrate to justify whatever he's charging for coaching
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Old 02-01-2018, 11:01 AM   #5
Giraff
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Re: I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

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Originally Posted by mayd_dawg View Post
It's probably nothing too sinister, just that he's playing too low / doesn't have the winrate to justify whatever he's charging for coaching
Yes, that is what I meant. Thing is that there are many members on this page that are very inexperienced at poker (probably most of them). And they of course assume that he is a very skilled player because he is being pushed by the people who run Up Swing Poker program. And because he is a moderator for Up Swing poker Facebookpage.

I have no idea of why they do not make him reveal what stakes he plays at because several members have been questioning his credentials.
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Old 02-01-2018, 12:12 PM   #6
ohmyrage
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Re: I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

I have hired and used Thomas Pinnock for coaching about a year ago, maybe less.

I hired him to help me make some preflop ranges, and talk about overall preflop theory.

He got me into using poker snowie, and that alone was worth the few hundred I spent on a few sessions.

He's very theory oriented but out of touch with how games are actually played in practice and I think he has bad practical advice for way games are played.
He's really just a pokersnowie parrot, but is knowledgeable in that arena.

He's a coach that can help you learn more about and wrap your head around poker theory, He is not a coach to help you learn to beat the games as they are currently being played. He's full on theory, and has no idea how to approach how an exploitative situation should be played vs for example live player pools.

I would recommend him, but just know what you are hiring him for.
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Old 02-01-2018, 02:09 PM   #7
Giraff
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Re: I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

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Originally Posted by ohmyrage View Post
I have hired and used Thomas Pinnock for coaching about a year ago, maybe less.

I hired him to help me make some preflop ranges, and talk about overall preflop theory.

He got me into using poker snowie, and that alone was worth the few hundred I spent on a few sessions.

He's very theory oriented but out of touch with how games are actually played in practice and I think he has bad practical advice for way games are played.
He's really just a pokersnowie parrot, but is knowledgeable in that arena.

He's a coach that can help you learn more about and wrap your head around poker theory, He is not a coach to help you learn to beat the games as they are currently being played. He's full on theory, and has no idea how to approach how an exploitative situation should be played vs for example live player pools.

I would recommend him, but just know what you are hiring him for.
Thank you for the info!

Thing is that if you are on a coach-level you should know how to play good poker in practice. If you teach theory but do not understand how to convert that knowledge to the tables you do not fully understand what you are teaching.

To learn how to use pokersnowie and how to create preflop ranges is basic stuff that you can do by just watching youtube videos and post on twoplustwo.

Why does he refuse to say what stakes he regulary plays at? Do you have any idea? Did you ask him?
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Old 02-01-2018, 10:22 PM   #8
ChicagoRy
 
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Re: I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

If you're not comfortable with a coach's lack of transparency, just don't hire them. There's no need to speculate on why someone won't share their stats, ask the coach and if they don't reply or give a poor answer just move on.

Most good coaches will be transparent about the games they play and the success (or lack thereof) that they have had.

Good results don't mean you have a good coach or an ability to teach. And less than top results don't mean a coach isn't valuable. There is a lot of context there.

All that said, I don't think I'd hire a coach that wouldn't share their results in poker with me. Watching videos or reading a book or listening to forum advice is one thing, but coaching costs hundreds, often thousands of dollars and you need a little bit more detailed information before plunking down that kind of cash and committing to that many hours. Not sharing any results or information is a bit of a red flag to me.
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:00 AM   #9
Giraff
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Re: I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRy View Post
If you're not comfortable with a coach's lack of transparency, just don't hire them. There's no need to speculate on why someone won't share their stats, ask the coach and if they don't reply or give a poor answer just move on.

Most good coaches will be transparent about the games they play and the success (or lack thereof) that they have had.

Good results don't mean you have a good coach or an ability to teach. And less than top results don't mean a coach isn't valuable. There is a lot of context there.

All that said, I don't think I'd hire a coach that wouldn't share their results in poker with me. Watching videos or reading a book or listening to forum advice is one thing, but coaching costs hundreds, often thousands of dollars and you need a little bit more detailed information before plunking down that kind of cash and committing to that many hours. Not sharing any results or information is a bit of a red flag to me.
You are right. I will not speculate more.
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:02 PM   #10
ohmyrage
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Re: I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

You don't have to beat the games to be a good teacher.

If you want to hire him to help you beat the games, you will be disappointed
If you want to hire him to help you understand elements of theory better, you will benefit. Being better at theory translates to beating the games

I was a 100nl player, and his introduction to using solvers(snowie) and better understanding theory has a part to play in my moving up to 500nl. Did I move up BECAUSE of his coaching? No, but it played a role in developing me as a player
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Old 02-21-2018, 02:51 AM   #11
sweetswing1
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Re: I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

If a coach won't post their results then they should be ignored unless they can produce referrals (students} that confirm he took them from "x" stakes to "x" stakes with graphs. Even then I'd be suspect. Results matter more than anything else.

Never hire a coach that can't prove their worth in other words.
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:19 PM   #12
Giraff
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Re: I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

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Originally Posted by sweetswing1 View Post
If a coach won't post their results then they should be ignored unless they can produce referrals (students} that confirm he took them from "x" stakes to "x" stakes with graphs. Even then I'd be suspect. Results matter more than anything else.

Never hire a coach that can't prove their worth in other words.
I agree.
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:27 PM   #13
Krisssss
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Re: I have my doubts about this coach from UpSwing poker FB-page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetswing1 View Post
If a coach won't post their results then they should be ignored unless they can produce referrals (students} that confirm he took them from "x" stakes to "x" stakes with graphs. Even then I'd be suspect. Results matter more than anything else.

Never hire a coach that can't prove their worth in other words.
I totally Agree
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