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Old 03-11-2019, 10:21 PM   #1
Katon Bond
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Bluffthespot preflop bible

Hi, has anyone had an experience with the preflop bible?

I recently bought it, and tbh im kind of disappointed. Im a fan of MMA so i was excited for its release, but when i got it, CO was VPIPing more than the BTN vs LJ open,BB was 3betting more vs BTN RFI than SB RFI, there were typos, missing words, the same paragraph was put twice for filler? There were no default ranges for defending versus 3bets, so how am I suppose to know if KQo is a better defend then J9s CO vs BTN 3bet? And also no default ranges for 4betting, how am I suppose to know if JJ is too loose to get in CO vs 3bet BTN?

And when I told the support about this, they said MMA will fix it when he has time. So hes putting out an unpolished product, and its not his priority to fix it for his paying customers?

Am I only one? Tbh im a fan of BTS but this isnt what i expected at all
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:58 PM   #2
BluffTheSpot
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Hi, we will fix the errors asap and provide ofc a fixed version to all customers of the PFB.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:35 PM   #3
Katon Bond
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Thanks! Much appreciated
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:42 PM   #4
Mixgrill
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

As Bluffthespot said, there were a few small errors that have to be polished and we'll put it out again shortly.
Sorry for the inconvenience, it's easy to miss something because of the amount of content in it.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:27 PM   #5
Katon Bond
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Thanks Mr. mixgrill, I appreciate it
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:21 AM   #6
Kockar
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Errors were fixed?

Any reviews for this product?
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:45 AM   #7
nydicil
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kockar View Post
Errors were fixed?

Any reviews for this product?
+1
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:32 PM   #8
Kockar
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

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Originally Posted by Kockar View Post
Errors were fixed?

Any reviews for this product?

I purchased the preflop bible vol. 2 for $240 and have to say that I am extremely disappointed with the bible and consider it as waste of money. Below I will give a short review for anybody interested in buying it.

But first: Since the review will be very negativ I want to make clear that I have nothing personal against BTS or MMA. On the contrary I am a big MMA fan boy and subscriber to his channel for almost 1 year. He is very generous giving free advice on his streams, a great poker player and seems to be very funny and smart. However, I think that you can expect some quality for $240 and imo this product is far away from beeing solid.

The reason for purchasing the bible was that I wanted to refine my preflop game and have been debating beetween the BTS preflop bible and monker ranges. Since I am a big fanboy of MMA, I have purchased the bible (which in hindsight was a pretty big mistake).

I have to say that I have PIO preflop charts for RFI and 3b ranges. But these are around 2 years old and I wanted to get also some default ranges for defend vs 3b/4b ranges.

Listed below are just some examples of the poor quality of the content:

Defending vs 3bet:

This was for me the main reason to purchase this product. I asked MMA in one of his streams if there are default ranges for defending (calling/4bing) vs 3bets in different positions (UTG vs CO, SB vs BB, etc).

He said yes and after I study his preflop bible I will be able to defend my range vs 3bets from the theoretical side and make proper adjustments vs different player types.

After I got the bible I was shocked to see that there is not 1 range included and everything which you will find is following:



It is basically a twice copy pasted text. I have blackened the only interesting information. Wtf is this? It looks like an NL5 player has written this. I canīt believe that this is everything which you will get for one of the most important spots in poker. You shouldnīt definitely advertise this topic for your bible, because it contains little to no info regarding strategy content.

3b sizes as pfr for different positions

MMA recommends following 3b sizes (rest of table is blackened):



Seems fine, or? Not really, since MMA doesnīt specify anywhere villains open raise sizing. You donīt need to be LinusLove to know that your 3bet sizing is a function of villains open raise sizing (beside the position). I highly doubt that MMA is recommending a static 3b size vs any open raise sizing. However I think we will never know what the author wanted to describe here. But this makes the recommended bet sizings completely useless and shows how little effort was put into this product.

4b sizes as pfr for different positions

Same as for the recommended 3b sizes (villains rfi size not mentioned at all). A completely useless table therefore or do you want to 4bet to 20bb after villains 3bets to 9bb (and if you play below 200NL you will know that half of the player pool 3bets to this size even if you min-open).

Even more dissapointing is that you will not find 1 chart how to defend vs 4bets. I expected at least one example how to defend "GTO-wise" vs 4bets and adjust vs the pool. If you ever asked yourself if you should call suited connectors, suited Ax or hands like 77/ATs in the SB vs a BTN 4b(and against which sizing or at what freq.), the answer will definetely not be found in the so called "bible".

Spelling mistakes

They are multiple spelling mistakes of the author, which shows how much effort was put into this product imo. One is shown below and makes clear that nobody ever has cross-checked the product after it was finished.



From the 5 questions, 2 are completely identical. I have a hard time to believe that anybody or the author itself has reviewed the book. And this is not the only mistake in this manner within the product. I know free resources were authors have put more effort into their work to have a clean product for their customers (so that they actually can enjoy the read).

False advertisement on BTS website



The marked text is completely untrue. There is not such a box in the whole product.


Conclusion: I purchased the preflop bible in the hope to master most important aspects of the preflop game. However I was extremely disappointed to see, that the only solid advice and charts are given for open raise ranges and BB vs rfi ranges (these are really solid). All other aspects like defending vs 3bets/4bets are not covered almost at all in this product or at some parts even innacurate infomation are given due to the lack of the author to specify the constraints of his advices. I would definetely not advertise the bible as an product to tackle almost any pre-flop spot as mentioned on the BTS site, because this is imo complete non-sense.

I would not recommend this bible tbh to anybody in this state. The bible looks like a first version who never was cross-checked.

It is way overpriced with $240 for the information that you will get imo.

For me personally it was unfortunately a complete waste of money.
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:52 AM   #9
Mixgrill
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

As I told you on stream, we made a few errors in the PF bible, that is why we spent a ton of times digging for every single mistake.
I am proof reading the final version today, to make sure everything is spot on.
So why don't you want until the new PF bible is out, which will be any minute, and then leave a review?

I don't think it is fair to dismiss a product because one sentence was copy-pasted, in a document that is dozens of pages long. Neither is making an occasional spelling mistake.
You said there were some mistakes in there, but then you don't wait for the updated version to make up your mind. You won't be disappointed.
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:26 AM   #10
Kockar
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixgrill View Post
As I told you on stream, we made a few errors in the PF bible, that is why we spent a ton of times digging for every single mistake.
I am proof reading the final version today, to make sure everything is spot on.
So why don't you want until the new PF bible is out, which will be any minute, and then leave a review?

I don't think it is fair to dismiss a product because one sentence was copy-pasted, in a document that is dozens of pages long. Neither is making an occasional spelling mistake.
You said there were some mistakes in there, but then you don't wait for the updated version to make up your mind. You won't be disappointed.
Because I thought that this is already the updated version. I bought the preflop bible 3 days ago.

And if you read my post carefully you will see that there are mistakes which go beyond grammar.

Especially regarding the advertisement. Saying every preflop situation is almost covered (but not having 1 chart presented how to defend vs 3b/4b for any situation) is far from true tbh. You should have been much more specific what the reader can expect. I didn't buy the preflop bible to get opening and 3bet charts.

From the business perspective I also don't understand why you haven't taken down the bible from the site until it is finished. Rather you allow people to buy a completely unpolished product.

And as mentioned I appreciate everything what you do for the community. I am not here to **** talk you. However I was shocked with the quality and content presented in the bible considering the price.

Last edited by Kockar; 05-17-2019 at 04:46 AM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 07:52 AM   #11
BluffTheSpot
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Hi Kockar,

MMA and 2 other guys (who are responsible for the design) worked the last 2 months on updating the PFB. It was clearly a mistake by us to claim that we only need some days to update the PFB because it was clearly way more time investment needed than expected. The core of the update is finished for some weeks, but at the same time, we wanted to make 100% we launch the updated version without any small mistake. So over the last 3-4 weeks, we ended up sending it to a couple of our coaches and let them give us feedback in order to make 100% clear that everything is on the level that is expected from a BTS product.

The updated version will for sure be launched next week.

Modifications

-Opening sizes more visible on the section OPEN RAISE.
-Progressive ranges growing from Open raise to facing a 3bet as 3bet facing a 4bet
-Deviations from the strategy
-Made a note to when taking reference on bet sizes (so the reader knows where to find the information)
-New charts expanded and explained (4bet + 5bet charts)
-Flatting and 3bet range from Button
-Big blind defence expanded.
-Gramma mistakes and notes repeated

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Old 05-17-2019, 11:21 AM   #12
nydicil
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

I bought this bible a few days ago as well and unfotunately was very disappointed when I saw it.
Got answered on twitch channel it will be updated next week. So Im waiting patiently.

I really hope everything now will be cover regarding PREFLOP play in an updated version if you call it Bible and it costs so much.

I really would like to see how to squeeze profitably position vs position (range vs range, how to construct it, etc) and how to defend against squeezes.
Squeezing is important PREFLOP concept which is very common in todays games. So if you call your product a "Bible" please cover also this subject.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:41 AM   #13
madlex
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixgrill View Post
So why don't you want until the new PF bible is out, which will be any minute, and then leave a review?
He’s reviewing the product he bought, that’s 100% fair game. If you don’t want for people to review your book before you’re done updating it, you shouldn’t sell it during that period.

It’s also 100% fair game for you to ask him to update his review or write a new one once he receives the new version. Based on his posting in this thread, I’d be optimistic that he’s willing to do that without compensation. That’s a luxury you don’t have if you sell on other platforms like Amazon. There, you would need to create a new product for your updated version or live with negative old feedback or compensate customers to update their reviews.
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:24 PM   #14
Katon Bond
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Im looking forward to writing a good review and recommending it to my friends/family/pets! Its a long time comingBluffthespot preflop bible
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Old 05-19-2019, 11:45 AM   #15
TooMuchMoney
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Nowadays everyone seems to think they can sell a half-finished product and fix the problem later…
Seems like a very greedy move to me. Too bad.
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Old 05-19-2019, 01:29 PM   #16
Kockar
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixgrill View Post
As I told you on stream, we made a few errors in the PF bible, that is why we spent a ton of times digging for every single mistake.
I am proof reading the final version today, to make sure everything is spot on.
So why don't you want until the new PF bible is out, which will be any minute, and then leave a review?

I don't think it is fair to dismiss a product because one sentence was copy-pasted, in a document that is dozens of pages long. Neither is making an occasional spelling mistake.
You said there were some mistakes in there, but then you don't wait for the updated version to make up your mind. You won't be disappointed.
I watched today your twich stream from 3 days ago and a guy with the SN Strikah1 asked when the PFB will be updated and complained about the quality.

I want to make clear that this is not me. Obviously I wouldnīt write the review if I thought that the PFB that I bought few days ago isnīt the updated one.

I think the whole situation could be avoided if you would have taken the PFB down from the website until it is finished. It would have been much more professional.

On the other side when I see that the first post here is older than 2 months were ppl comlained about the quality and you are working on a new product not focussing to release the updated version asap, I think at least for the buying customers and potential future customers the review isnīt a bad thing.
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Old 05-19-2019, 01:54 PM   #17
theproksa
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Modifications

-Opening sizes more visible on the section OPEN RAISE.
-Progressive ranges growing from Open raise to facing a 3bet as 3bet facing a 4bet
-Deviations from the strategy
-Made a note to when taking reference on bet sizes (so the reader knows where to find the information)
-New charts expanded and explained (4bet + 5bet charts)
-Flatting and 3bet range from Button
-Big blind defence expanded.
-Gramma mistakes and notes repeated
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:24 AM   #18
SonOfBadger
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

it's grammar bro
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:28 AM   #19
BluffTheSpot
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Mercy bro!
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:50 AM   #20
UnbanMePlz
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Mercy bro? Or Merci Bro?
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:16 AM   #21
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

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Mercy bro? Or Merci Bro?
I think it is "Merci bro."
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:01 PM   #22
BluffTheSpot
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Mercy is a 2014 American supernatural horror film written by Matt Greenberg, directed by Peter Cornwell, and starring Frances O'Connor, Shirley Knight, Chandler Riggs, Joel Courtney, Dylan McDermott and Mark Duplass. It is loosely based on the short story "Gramma" by Stephen King
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:03 PM   #23
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluffTheSpot View Post
Mercy is a 2014 American supernatural horror film written by Matt Greenberg, directed by Peter Cornwell, and starring Frances O'Connor, Shirley Knight, Chandler Riggs, Joel Courtney, Dylan McDermott and Mark Duplass. It is loosely based on the short story "Gramma" by Stephen King
That was unexpected
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:05 PM   #24
BluffTheSpot
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

Preflop Bible 2.1 just got uploaded!
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Old 05-23-2019, 04:03 AM   #25
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Re: Bluffthespot preflop bible

I will update my review in a couple of days.
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