I actually have been contemplating this post for a few months now. I am new to poker, and I was looking for some regular coaching. I found the bestpokercoaching.com group. They wanted a deposit, which you can get back after completing the term. They provided coaching, standard lines, and help, for half of your profits. I was/am a losing player, so I figured if I can get any profits, I would be moving in the right direction.
They heavily pushed that there were no time restraints, work at your own pace, and it was very flexible in that regards. After all, they have your substantial deposit.
Unfortunately, not too long into it, I ran into a bit of legal issues. Which didn't allow me to do many things. I didn't stress out about it, because of the "at your own pace" thing.
So when I get back on my feet, and cleared things up, I try to log in and continue learning and playing. I then found out that they terminated me, and my deposit was gone.
I pleaded with them to just let me continue, and hopefully make us all money. But they wouldn't budge a bit. So instead of allowing me to continue, they take the deposit and it's goodbye.
I still like the idea of bpc. And would like to complete what I started (and make money). I understand that I am not blameless here, and I just wanted to let folks know about my experience. Maybe I am a fish for trusting them. Perhaps I am a fish to thing coaching for half of my profits is a good idea. Perhaps they are not on the up and up. I'm not sure. I was hoping I would be posting on here how much they helped me out, and how much money I am making for both of us.
What are your thoughts on this? Is this kind of coaching for profits a good idea? Should I pay another deposit and try again?

Dont give up bro

Even if you have to pay 500 deposits

Good luck

Thanks for the advice. I would like if they offered to let me back in. Maybe even a small deposit again.

BPC has a lot of players being coached, and very few making money. They flaunt the 1% succeeding (obviously not an accurate number but you get my drift), while making no mention of all the others on their roster.

Don't give another deposit dude - the first guy replying here was obviously trolling you hard...

@Prizzy:

Rules were clear. "At your own pace" does NOT mean to consume materials, coaching FOR FREE, then go awol without playing and giving things a try.
At your own pace means that you don't have to play 40hours, hell, you could even play very little hours as long as you update and "stay alive". That's the only condition in your program. And in return you get daily access to coaching, all hands answered... it's pretty strong to go and complain on a forum.

About your personal situation, legal trouble. Let's just assume all of this is true (it probably isn't), you could have emailed and ask us to freeze your account and we would have done it.

So yes, but for the security deposit you did get access to courses, free coachings, which would have cost you thousand(s) anywhere else. So despite you not taking advantage, you got yourself a pretty sweet deal... but crying here anyhow is pretty strong.

We stress this all day long:
If you want to do things "your way", just be fair and buy a course. You get lifetime access and nobody will care if you take a break for months or even years.

Taking free coaching (most expensive part!) and then having the guts to complain after YOU broke the rules (and we are usually even relaxed unless its super clear abuse)... i don't know. I have less hope for humanity.

All the white knights jumping in... oh well.

You guys are like NPC bots. You can scream this as often as you want, and u can have ur own opinion, but not ur own facts.

It's very simple. There are 2 ways:

1) Having daily(!) live coachings (actually multiple each day), this can become pretty expensive because we put very high standards on how coaching goes down...
Since those very respected caoches (like Alan Jackson etc etc) they don't work for free and BPC is not a charity, where does the money come from?

a) From players profits

b) I LIKE TO BE A NPC FORUM HATER BOT.... TRUTH DOESN'T MATTER. I HATE BPC lol

If 1% would finance the coachings of 99%...jeez, how dumb do you have to be to believe this.

2) OMG but security deposit !!!

Dummies again. First of all, people get that back if they complete the program. Finishers will confirm. Those who don't finish, and quit poker (like some guys "only" making 40k with out help)... they don't get it back. yes.

We could simply sell the program as like 10 courses for $500 each. We could sell video courses like everybody else (and we will). So the security deposit doesn't pay for much, it covers admin stuff and it prohibits some level of abuse.

Anybody not realizing how incredibly dumb some people posting here are, here we go.


Also

For the dumbest of the dumb... we make money only if players win. Our players have achieved the highest success. Out of first 5 players, 4 were all losing players. All made 100k. It's public record, not an opinion. And the same people who hate here...are the same who said "its not possible" , "go work at Mcdonalds instead" to those students making 100k in 9 months....

Success rate is more like in the high 90%, and most players joining are losing players. But there is a long post in our paid thread explaining why "success rate" is not a perfect metric.

I think this guy posting here is one of the MANY we put out of business. He can cry now how this isnt true... but we obviously picked up lots of haters.

Im not suggesting OP pays another deposit unless he changes his attitude btw. He should be very thoughtful about this, bc we wont change the rules even if he complains to UN human rights committee.

Lazy students are LOSING us money, but we don't judge but some of our best guys and coaches today also paid another deposit (and got both back of course). But if he's not changing his attitude, i see 0 hope for him.

Suggest any coaching course/site, we are the ONLY ones that back up that our material is good with actions.

Anybody can run a CFP, and if you believe your coaching is great, it is a LOT more profitable. Selling videos is fine, nothing wrong with that. You can wear cool tshirts and pump out "Im so GTO" ... but what works for your clients on the table, it's something else.

You can sell GTO snake oil and even get raving fans. LOL. Why? you never have to prove that it works for people with lower than 130 IQ.

We prove that what we teach works.

Every.

Single.

Day.

And the proof is easy. We wouldn't be here...

regardless of what is true or not, your posting tone is extremely unprofessional, even if you're responding to (as you called them) haters

Incredibly untrue. Unfortunately, players need to join BPC to see how many other aspiring players fell for it.

Fair point. Not everybody's pair of shoes.

We have decided to return fire with more fire and polite with very polite, because that is how we feel about it. If you want some 1diots who consult PR departments who tell them what to think and say ... we're not the right people.

Almost 8 years of public history. I think people (even the haters, that's why there are working so great for us) prefer authenticity even if they don't agree with you. World is too much filled with fake people, fake outrage, fake everything.

@Derp:

2018 lol. Random NPC forum donkey without money knows how to run a business and how everything works

First of all "Ivan" was not a 100k finisher. He was 60k. But great guy obviously. The first people, all 100k finishers you can read about them if you really cared. 100% success rate with 4/5 being losing players.

https://www.bestpokercoaching.com/st...ccess-stories/

You can pick some people there and read up a bit. I know it's easier to just spew bs, but it makes us look "unprofessional" but you look like the biggest moron in town.

You guys think you're "different", yet all the same. This garbage ideas u have, you can read in our paid threat more than 4 years ago. Debunked a million times. Everybody respected knows that.

I wish what you said about Rakeback is true, but everybody will tell you that the golden days of affiliates in poker are over.

I know you have read an article about business and "marketing" and "affiliates" , maybe some buzzwords and now you feel you have an opinion worth sharing lol.

All you're doing is entertaining the rest of the world with your stupidity.

Btw, some of your half-knowledge... you should know that players get back 100% of RB and use it as profits - if they decide to sign up through us. So no real profit there.

We should make decent money with affiliates, but we're bad at business and too much focused on coaching and making players win...we got a small income, but not that much related with coaching players and the CFP program ;(

So, yeah, nice try.

Waiting for the next (cheap) shot. Bring it on. This is fun.

Anyone who has experience in Poker knows this method
is directed at inexperienced players .

If you are experienced you have a better knowledge and you can evaluate better the learning methods available

I know 2 guys who took this and payed the deposit (having previously rejected coaching from a good cash coach at a decent price ) They failed miserably , why ? I dont know , but tbh they where not very smart in the first place , so maybe regardless of the teaching method they where never destined to be good players

Having RB deal is smart from any company , they make money even when they leave
Are players informed about this when they start ? I heard not , but i cant confirm.
They should be ofc
I dont criticize any company without knowledge , they offer a product .
You are free to choose it or not and you should take the consequences.
There is a big mistake players make wich is thinking Coach per profit deals have less risk .

This is not true , the risk is relativ ofc , but your ignorance is the biggest risk
because these players are clueless .

So clueless they dont even know how to choose the best learning form or method.
Taking lots of clueless and not very smart players means most will fail and this
doesnt mean the info or the method is the responsible for that.

The biggest reason for ignorance is that people are not willing to invest in themselves
they prefer to easiest route and sometimes the cheaper route.

This comes with a price.

Maybe the above companie is good for some , bad for others , but people should be smarter and think carefully , evaluating and comparing the options .

My opinion , never pay without this

1 - Always have a conversation with the coach , personally , before you pay one single cent , make a serious of questions , see the knowledge he has in general and then compare with other coaches

2- Compare at least 4 different options (Coaches etc)

3 - If you are not willing to invest in yourself , why will others ?
The biggest sign of a losing/weak player is when he thinks coaching is "expensive"
not understanding the basic relation price-value .


4 - Get someone adjusted at your level , if you play nl5 , dont get coaching from a top nl100 reg , try to get someone who beats nl25 confortably


gl

This is correct. Although there is the other extreme of paralysis by analysis.

What you, TonyBass likely don't know (altho most of your thoughts are spot on fwiw) is that this behaviour of people is easily explained.

John Doe goes to the gym, pays a signup fee, gets a free coach who only gets paid if he loses weight.
John Doe keeps eating cheeseburgers, doesn't go to the gym anymore after having used the coaches time. The coach calls John, but John doesn't answer (later he will cite "personal problems" and other bs to get empathy from other losers). Coach finally says "ok, it's their choice to stay fat".

John Doe comes back 6months later and wants free coaching. Coach says "sorry, no more FREE training for you. I've already wasted enough resources on you. How do i know you will not disappear again? ".

John Doe goes on a forum (usually he "threatens", blackmails via email first to say bad things in the public if he does not get x,y,z), throws a tantrum and complains how "gym did me wrong". Then here and there some other overweight comrades or other owner of a gym that was outcompeted come in and tell John Doe to be "careful" at which gym to train (while at the same time they would never coach and help somebody like John themselves lol). The only guys willing to help are now the "bad guys" .

Then normal people like TonyBass come in (you seem like a polite and honest guy, not a hater) and advise to "learn to understand the different training methods". Which is generally speaking smart advice, but not in this specific case.


What makes this absurd is that at ANY other gym, John would have also paid a signup fee (or security deposit) and he would have NEVER gotten any free coaching at all.
Even worse, the other gym(s) will sell him magic GTO courses that work really well for model athletes with 5 years professional training, but wont work for fat John.

But this is how the mind of some humans work. They get free stuff and then complain when they don't do their part and stop receiveing FREE stuff (!!!!)

I have even more empathy for prizzy/John Doe. We had people come in and apologize later, one even became a finisher lol. Nothing personal, people get angry and externalize. No big deal. Prizzy even said he wants to get back...so it's not like the gym was terrible .

I deeply disrespect people like "Derp" who are just dumb, clueless and hate lol. But at least they entertain us all.

In theory, yes, sounds great. But no good coach worth his time will do this because it attracts freeloaders and non-serious people. Every experienced person will confirm.

Solution: Easy. Public videos, sample chapters. Sample contracts. Student can spend $7-$20 on an entry level product and see if the company/coach is a good fit. Cheap way to find out.

Fwiw, we track this stuff. We don't have any "cold buyers" (people just visiting the site and signing up).

Definitely spot on and good advice.


Our words, 100%. We use the exact line when a student wants to do things "their way". We always say "if we invest our time+money, then you listen and do it our way".
Some people take it the wrong way when experienced winners say this, but that is great because it filters out the wrong people.

Generally speaking this is also 100% spot on. It can even be hurtful to use content from high stakes guy if this guy does not know how to calibrate.

On the other side, you want your coach to have a minimum understanding of the game and if you have high ambitions, having a NL25 coach is usually a bad idea at any time. Having NL25 winner as "2nd coach" or assistant for NL5 guy is totally fine tho.

I made it easy on him... lol

So it couldn't be considered a break? I made my situation, as ****ty as it was, clear. I'm only posting because of the rigidity. Especially when I finally could, I did want to play and pay the 50%, and finish the deal. It would be a bit different if I was asking for my deposit back. right? The free coaching I took was the standard lines download, and the first set of videos. Never any one on one, or a webinar (because in the US they were way to early). So just make it right.

Prizzy, i understand you, but we're having rules for a reason. What you say might be true, maybe yes, maybe no. We're not to judge, not a nice position to be in. They were not put in place to hurt anybody. We have explained why trust is so important and why student going awol is the WORST thing to do. From your perspective you might think "evil company, i was just away for some time and did not consume material while away". I get that.

If you look at it from the coaches perspective, they put in their time and they KNOW from experience that it takes real dedication. It's like trusting somebody with your golden ring that has stolen bubble gum in their childhood. Yeah, man, it's only a bubble gum. No big deal, right? It distorts the whole investment thesis. We are all for second chances, and many have worked out well (not all though!). That's why we don't judge, we are agnostic. We don't know what happened with you. We don't need to know or play games of "let's believe him, let's not believe him".
All we say is "you did wrong, if you want us to bet on you again, show that you put in some beef as well".

You can look YEARS back when CFP was started. Gordon talked about "attitude" being the most important quality. He said rather to take a losing NL5 player with the right attitude than a winning NL100 player with the wrong attitude.
That's why the first 5 out of 5 people made it to 100k despite 4 of them being (micro/small) losing players.
That's a fact many haters like Derp try to dismiss .

MOST IMPORTANT:

Prizzy, do you think we are happy if you're unhappy? Believe me when I say we are having BIG discussions what WE could do better although you said yourself that you were the one breaking the contract.
Why? We are around now for 8 years while "established" sites closed down. We keep public records, you can see all the proud and not so proud moments in a thread with close to 1million views.
We want to stay around at least another 8 years and that doesn't happen if people like you are unhappy. Not important whose fault it is.

We would be better off if you had gotten a course, paid for it and did whatever you wanted. No share payments.
We need to enforce rules in CFP tho, otherwise there is a sliding effect. Like a teacher not punishing students for not doing homework. Soon even the people who would do homework if there is punishment wont do it. Behavioural economics/psychology 101. Read the words of the finishers, besides poker content, they found AT LEAST equally, if not more important the VALUES we live by and teach them. The winner attitude.

You're not gonna be more happy reading this, but we really HAVE to enforce rules and it increases YOUR chance of success as well. And the integrity of our team. Other students are watching. Will we give in to "terrorists"?

As you see we do not care what outside people think. They are not our clients. We do care what you, prizzy, think, because you are (or were) a client. And whenever a client is unhappy we failed as a team. Not important that it was your fault. But the integrity of agreements is our limit.

We still use these opportunities to be self-critical and ask what we can do better.
We have some ideas that we are working on that will soon be implemented.

I am allowed to spoil this much:
It's likely that you have to qualify for CFP in the future and prove yourself first (something that shows effort, but that any losing player can easily do anyways). This can even reduce the security deposit bc it lowers our risk as well.

Like i said, no money. To be fair, for many it would be. You're full of $h1t anyways and just making it up. Never happened on the internet before lol.

Or can i bait you into posting some income statement?

Mommy, Daddy? Boyfriend? Or why household lol. Pathetic. From poker?

Keep entertaining us!

Honestly, I never saw a contract. I heard I was going to get one to sign, and I always expected to see one. Maybe it was in a EULA type thing that no one reads, in which case my fault. I really thought the at your own pace and no time limit stuff meant exactly that. In my case. Seems like you already lost what you were going to. And only have money and probably some good exposure to gain. Perhaps naive of me though.

Prizzy, our biggest loss is losing you. No reason you could have not been the next finisher.

But please don't try to weasel yourself out of this and claim "oh i am the good naive person" and pretend we took advantage of small print hidden in 10 pages of legalese stuff that nobody reads. This is totally against who we are and how we do things. Simply not true.

1) For 5k contract we don't require your signature so technically, legally it's more of an agreement. We want to keep things simple and not add 10 pages of lawyer english to confuse people. There is nothing in it for us, if anything it weakens our position in case a student doesn't pay. We do it to make life easier for YOU, the student. For bigger contracts we are more careful, of course. Luckily we never had an issue and the security deposit also helps, of course. This way we can focus on coaching and not chasing after people owing $100 who go awol.

2) Before signing up there is a CLEAR link with the contract/agreement and your obligations (the very very few you have) written in plain English. Even 70 IQ person can understand it.

3) The contract/agreement is also public in our FAQ, we mention it in videos, you can and should click on it before joining, so it is VERY SIMPLE. This is not an apple/user "user agreement" type of thing.

4) Very important: We even automatically email you and send notifications if you don't update (kind of your only "obligation"...takes 30 seconds).

5) We do step 4 many times, send warnings and last warnings... UP to the point where users send us angry emails


If 1-5 is not enough, yes, i guess it's totally reasonable by every possible standard to not give you any more FREE (!!!) coaching.

Just take some damn responsibility and don't call yourself naive. You were lazy, lost motivation or something else was more important in that moment in life.

We're happy to teach and always happy to help you.

You're always welcome at BPC, we hold no grudges. If you want to work out something, feel free to contact our support, but there wont be any sort of "come back for free".

That'd be disrespectful and unfair to those people who stick to the rules.

Prizzy, if you send us a PM with your Run It Once username we'll hook you up with a couple of free months of our Essential plan. If you don't already have an account, sign up for a free Basic account here and then we'll take care of upgrading you.

class

It is NOT FREE if you take a non-refundable deposit.