Because of lack of PLO8 literature it would be interesting to know what starting hands you play. These hands do I play:

*x=any card (of course)

EP (unraised):
AAxx
A2+3-5+x(A suited)
A346(A suited)
A356(A suited)
A456(A suited)
A23+4-6
A24+5-6
A34+5-6
2345
2346
K23+4-5(K suited)
AKK+2-5(A suited)
AQQ+2-5(A suited)
KQJT
A+ 3 cards above T(A suited)

MP (unraised):
I add
QJT9
2356
KK+ 2 cards of different rank below 5
QQ+ 2 cards of different rank below 5

LP (unraised):
I add
A3+4-5+x(A suited)
A456
2456
3456
KK+ 2 cards of different rank below 8
QQ+ 2 cards of different rank below 8

Button and SB (unraised):
I add
A4xx(A suited)
Any 4 cards above T
Any 3 cards of different rank below 6
KKxx
QQxx

I continue with raised pots in my next post

I have very similar requirements.

I have two slight differences.

I don't usually play the K K (and two low cards) or Q Q (and two low cards) outside of the blinds.

But (and I understand this is sacreligious) I will play any four connected cards in an unraised pot (6 7 8 9).

So, not much difference. Neither of these types of hands happen often enough to make a dramatic difference in my winrate.

I play such a tight game that every once in awhile I like to show cards that give the impression I have loose starting requirements.

Dave

Would you really not play A237 from EP if the Ace weren't suited?

I read somewhere KK/QQ + two low were'nt good enough starting hands because those premium limit two way hands gets either counterfeited in the low or either lose in the high end to a straight or a flush or at least get freerolled from the turn and on. But I have taken them back because I think I often won with those against weak players chasing low only hands on a two low card flop.

Probably, but that would be in objection to my theory... :P

No, I really think the hand lack of high hand quality. In my view A236 is a MUCH stronger hand. 45x flops give me an incredibly strong high draw but a 7 doesn't help A23 much. And A23 without a 6 (or a 4/5) or a suited ace is the kind of hand you get quartered with.

Ironman, can you explain your thoughts about playing middle cards. I muck them without a second thought, but I see people playing them from time to time. I have always regarded this as a huge error, have I missed something? My main objection is that you must hit an almost perfect rainbow flop of 776 or 457 and still you're almost always playing for half the pot.

I missed A2xx(A suited) in LP and A3xx(A suited) in Button and SB


EP (unraised):
AAxx
A2+3-5+x(A suited)
A346(A suited)
A356(A suited)
A456(A suited)
A23+4-6
A24+5-6
A34+5-6
2345
2346
K23+4-5(K suited)
AKK+2-5(A suited)
AQQ+2-5(A suited)
KQJT
A+ 3 cards above T(A suited)

MP (unraised):
I add
QJT9
2356
KK+ 2 cards of different rank below 5
QQ+ 2 cards of different rank below 5

LP (unraised):
I add
A2xx(A suited)
A3+4-5+x(A suited)
A456
2456
3456
KK+ 2 cards of different rank below 8
QQ+ 2 cards of different rank below 8

Button and SB (unraised):
I add
A3xx(A suited)
A4xx(A suited)
Any 4 cards above T
Any 3 cards of different rank below 6
KKxx
QQxx

Let me preface this by saying that Buzz and I have had this conversation before and he believes that playing these middle cards is an absolute mistake. Most likely, he is right on the money with this one as well.

But, here is what I have found (and this only works in PLO8 by the way).

1. I will only limp with these hands. So, for a very small bet, I can see if I get a good fit.

2. These hands are very easy to play because when they miss, they really miss. When they hit, they really hit.

3. When I'm playing for the top half of a pot with lots of low cards, there are usually several people playing for the low end. I'm happy to build large pot size bets with 2 or 3 low players playing for a quarter of the pot while I get half.

4. When you do hit those cards, it is essential that you play it fast. You need to make any sets and two pairs think long and hard about calling pot sized bets.

I proceed with caution and dump the hand when it looks like I'm beat.

Ironman Dave

I'm curious about what you raise with. Do you ever come in with a raise in any position or do you wait until the pot has been raised. I'm new to PLO8, but have experience in both PLO and o8. I never raise in early or middle position in either of these games.

I will play any A2xx and most A3xx in LP, but aside from that, it's about the same.

I'm working on a list but it's much harder than make a similar for PLO High. I have an idea about keeping the pot small as long as possible. It's easier to fold and people tend to call with weak hands anyway, like busted out sets and str8's and one way hands that will make them getting quartered/freerolled etc. But in late position I probably raise with A23X (Ace suited) and AA2x (singel or double suited) if there is a bunch of limpers already in. Usually I raise with weaker AAxx hands in late position if I think I can get it heads up. And I'm always ready to go all-in with AAxx (if at least one of the x's is 8 or lower).

I believe PLO8 is a game of folding, preflop AND postflop. I'm sure there are other strategies that might work as well, but I believe hand reading is more difficult so I prefer to keep it simple and play my own cards.

Interesting you said so, because I just made the adjustment when I was playing A29J (Ace suited) three seats from the button. I folded but thought, hey, that one I should have played...! So I added A2xx(As) to Late position and A3xx(As) to "Button and SB".

Greatwhite,

This has been a point of a lot of discussion over the last couple years with this group.

I will raise with these groups of hands in general. There are a few more, but for someone who is new to the game, it's better not to stray too far away (I'll mention one other situation at the end).

Typicall raising hands:

A A 2 (pot sized raises)
A A 3-4 (pot sized raises from middle to late position)
A 2 & another good low card (smaller raise...might limp every once in awhile to change things up)

There is one other spot where I will raise. If I'm in late position with several callers in front of me and I hold 4 good high cards 10 or better, I will put in a raise.

My reasoning...most likely my opponents hold most of the low cards. When the high cards come on the flop...I have both position and cards that fit the flop. Often I can get a free card this way as well. When I check this through after the flop, many opponents will mistakenly put me on a strong ace deuce hand that missed instead of a strong high hand.

Just some thoughts,

Ironman Dave

Cool, but I will play them unsuited to the A as well. The suitedness helps, but it's not necessary.

I dont have guidelines. I play poker.

Bumped for those looking for the original thread.

recommend suitedness unless you have liking for the rough sex that is variance

much thanks to atouni-whatever for bumping, can we sticky or will this give away a lot of info(badbeatphil advocate)?

Arouet - Thanks. I finally located it, but may be nice to have it up front again.

Buzz

OP seems too tight imo.

What kind of VP$IP would this give?
It doesn't seem like it would be more than about 15%
A lot of players claim they have 30% and are winning.

I agree with Assani, quite a bit too tight, how does this get much action especially when trying at all costs to keep pots small?? You better limp reraise some of the monsters in this family.

Not that OP is necessarily answering this, but for discussion...

EP: You fold A23x? A22w s? QQKT ss?

MP: Fold A3xx s?

LP: A4s and a pair?

Button: JJ23? Probably not many Aces folded increases chance to flop an ace, pressure from blinds easier to read preflop.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head. Not sure you published a comprehensive list or just a rough guide.

I’ve played a lot of low buy-in plo8 lately, trying to follow what I’ve learned here. I want to play in a local live limit 15-30 game, that I’ve played in before and I know it’s pretty crazy, with average pots around $300.

I’d like to learn, if possible, if there’s a way to generalize a strategy of starting hands in the local game, starting with the strategy offered in this thread. For example, in this situation, add these hands… or subtract these hands …

Is there away to generalize starting hands in this way for the list situations below? Is this the right list?

1) Unraised pot, few players seeing flop, position …
2) Unraised pot, many players seeing flop, position …
3) Raised pot, few players seeing flop, position …
4) Raised pot, many players seeing flop, position …

Thanks,
Boltamm

any attempt to make a list like this for this game will fail. there are just too many variables besides the cards you are holding. where are the good players, where are the bad ones, what have they done so far, how big are their stacks, are big is yours?

Ok, thanks. Let me try a different approach.. I think what I'm trying to get at is how my instincts for plo8 need to be adjusted for my local limit game.

Are there any starting hands that are generally accepted to be playable in plo8 but not in limit? or unless certain conditions are present? I think that I may be asking something that most folks here already know and I think that it has to do with how important scooping the pot is in plo8 vrs liimit and how in plo8 you can be driven off even the nut low under certain circumstances.

You keep letting them freeroll you with no low. See how far those middle cards get you.