Possible poker bots at Ongame NLHE
01-23-2008
, 11:24 AM
A friend of mine came across a weird player with nick knipkniht at Ongame NLHE100 5max (blinds $0.50 and $1.00) a couple of days ago. My friend was multitabling at the time so I took some time to research this player after my friend claimed that he played like a very predictable poker bot. knipkniht was 4-tabling at the time so I had chance to observe him in real time. It gave me opportunity to see how much time he used to react and so on and obviously to get to see more hands from him.
What I noticed about this player after spectating him and combining some hand history (232 hands in total) from him:
-always buys in with $10
-always leaves instantly after folding UTG if he has doubled to ANY amount over $10
-always shoves SB with any two if everyone has folded (5 sec timing)
-always shoves BB with any two if everyone but SB has folded (and SB has only completed the blind) (5 sec timing)
-when he open shoves from elsewhere he has about range of QJo+, 66+
-he always shoves the whole stack (well what else are you going to shove)
-he never just calls
-he always shoves the flop if he hits top pair or better when he has seen flop free from BB in a multiway pot
I know that these are basic short stacking tactics. But here is it where it comes interesting:
-the player always plays according to his rules, absolutely no exceptions
-timing in shoves is VERY predictable (about 5 sec)
-he leaves the table even when doubling to only like $12 (who human would play with a discipline like that?)
-he always rebuys to $10 if he loses his stack and he always does that so slowly that he misses the next hand. If he should have posted any blind next hand he will post the missed blind and won’t wait for BB.
Okey, that is not much of prove yet but still pretty interesting. So I went to summary tab of my Poker Tracker and tried to find a similar player (based on VPIP and PFR being close to the knipkniht). I found this one player HarryKings with VPIP and PFR both of 22.45 after 196 hands. The original guy, knipkniht, had 22.41 in both of these values. Then I looked up Game Notes to see how he actually played. What I found was that he played exactly like knipkniht, with absolutely no exceptions. I found this guy online later that day and he was also 4-tabling like knipkniht and timings and so on seemed very much like knipknight’s. I did not spectate him for long time, though.
I did some Googling and here is what I found out:
-Both players showed up in many hand histories after October 2007 (with exception of couple hands by HarryKings in June 2007)
-They had minimum stacks in those hand histories too
-HarryKings and his playing style were mentioned on 2+2:
(Taken from: **** Official Cake/UB/AP/Prima/Everest/etc Regs thread **** )
I looked up my stats on SoRonrey:
410 hands VPIP 27.56 PFR 27.07 (2 hands that only called preflop, mucked or folded both of those so can’t see those hands from PT without manual research).
I also found him playing online, 4 tabling. He did not have same timings as two previous players. He also played more loose after limpers and from the button. He even timed out once. He did however always leave after folding hand from UTG if he had doubled and he would also shove as supposed to and so on.
Ongame shows location of the players if they have entered those:
knipkniht: some Chinese place or something, like Tao-Yon District or something. I must say that Chinese are known for suspected methods in online gambling. Is poker even legal there?
HarryKings: I did not look it up.
SoRonrey: Only * as location.
PT Stats:
Edited to same picture some basic stats:
Other stuff
Some notes about the stats: knipkniht did not have infinity as AF at flop because he once flopped a set with 44 from BB (checked PF) and called an all-in that came before his turn.
In short:
2 very similar players suspected to be bots, Ongame NLHE100 and NLHE50 5max, maybe bots or players playing with very strict rules, third player pretty much like previous two but little different (more loose and had some weird timings). Player nicks knipkniht, HarryKings and SoRonrey
Final words:
It is obviously impossible for a spectator like me to provide any water-proof evidences (and I am not interested in doing that either) because he does not has access to player whole history or even some screenshots what other, better and more secure poker software, might take. Network histories (IP addresses) could also provide interesting info about at least possible multiaccounting.
After spectating these two first players, knipkniht and HarryKings, it seemed very obvious for me that most certainly it was not a human controlling those players. I can be wrong of course; a very disciplined player could probably play like that. I am very sorry if one you are playing under one of those nicks. However I don’t think it is very probable that those nicknames are controlled by a human player, the player was always in need to search new tables after leaving from some old ones and I think that would have affected his timings. About the third player, SoRonrey, I am not so sure. At least it is not run by same software or version of software and it did not have same timings as previous two.
I am not going to post almost thousand hand histories here but everything I said is based on HH's. I can post same later if you want.
I quickly looked up the TC of a random Ongame-site. I did not find ban for poker bots but I guess it would not be tolerated. I e-mailed Eurobet few minutes ago (customer-services@eurobet.com ) about these possible bots. Let’s see if they care to inspect or even answer.
What do you guys think about this?
What I noticed about this player after spectating him and combining some hand history (232 hands in total) from him:
-always buys in with $10
-always leaves instantly after folding UTG if he has doubled to ANY amount over $10
-always shoves SB with any two if everyone has folded (5 sec timing)
-always shoves BB with any two if everyone but SB has folded (and SB has only completed the blind) (5 sec timing)
-when he open shoves from elsewhere he has about range of QJo+, 66+
-he always shoves the whole stack (well what else are you going to shove)
-he never just calls
-he always shoves the flop if he hits top pair or better when he has seen flop free from BB in a multiway pot
I know that these are basic short stacking tactics. But here is it where it comes interesting:
-the player always plays according to his rules, absolutely no exceptions
-timing in shoves is VERY predictable (about 5 sec)
-he leaves the table even when doubling to only like $12 (who human would play with a discipline like that?)
-he always rebuys to $10 if he loses his stack and he always does that so slowly that he misses the next hand. If he should have posted any blind next hand he will post the missed blind and won’t wait for BB.
Okey, that is not much of prove yet but still pretty interesting. So I went to summary tab of my Poker Tracker and tried to find a similar player (based on VPIP and PFR being close to the knipkniht). I found this one player HarryKings with VPIP and PFR both of 22.45 after 196 hands. The original guy, knipkniht, had 22.41 in both of these values. Then I looked up Game Notes to see how he actually played. What I found was that he played exactly like knipkniht, with absolutely no exceptions. I found this guy online later that day and he was also 4-tabling like knipkniht and timings and so on seemed very much like knipknight’s. I did not spectate him for long time, though.
I did some Googling and here is what I found out:
-Both players showed up in many hand histories after October 2007 (with exception of couple hands by HarryKings in June 2007)
-They had minimum stacks in those hand histories too
-HarryKings and his playing style were mentioned on 2+2:
I looked up my stats on SoRonrey:
410 hands VPIP 27.56 PFR 27.07 (2 hands that only called preflop, mucked or folded both of those so can’t see those hands from PT without manual research).
I also found him playing online, 4 tabling. He did not have same timings as two previous players. He also played more loose after limpers and from the button. He even timed out once. He did however always leave after folding hand from UTG if he had doubled and he would also shove as supposed to and so on.
Ongame shows location of the players if they have entered those:
knipkniht: some Chinese place or something, like Tao-Yon District or something. I must say that Chinese are known for suspected methods in online gambling. Is poker even legal there?
HarryKings: I did not look it up.
SoRonrey: Only * as location.
PT Stats:
Edited to same picture some basic stats:
Other stuff
Some notes about the stats: knipkniht did not have infinity as AF at flop because he once flopped a set with 44 from BB (checked PF) and called an all-in that came before his turn.
In short:
2 very similar players suspected to be bots, Ongame NLHE100 and NLHE50 5max, maybe bots or players playing with very strict rules, third player pretty much like previous two but little different (more loose and had some weird timings). Player nicks knipkniht, HarryKings and SoRonrey
Final words:
It is obviously impossible for a spectator like me to provide any water-proof evidences (and I am not interested in doing that either) because he does not has access to player whole history or even some screenshots what other, better and more secure poker software, might take. Network histories (IP addresses) could also provide interesting info about at least possible multiaccounting.
After spectating these two first players, knipkniht and HarryKings, it seemed very obvious for me that most certainly it was not a human controlling those players. I can be wrong of course; a very disciplined player could probably play like that. I am very sorry if one you are playing under one of those nicks. However I don’t think it is very probable that those nicknames are controlled by a human player, the player was always in need to search new tables after leaving from some old ones and I think that would have affected his timings. About the third player, SoRonrey, I am not so sure. At least it is not run by same software or version of software and it did not have same timings as previous two.
I am not going to post almost thousand hand histories here but everything I said is based on HH's. I can post same later if you want.
I quickly looked up the TC of a random Ongame-site. I did not find ban for poker bots but I guess it would not be tolerated. I e-mailed Eurobet few minutes ago (customer-services@eurobet.com ) about these possible bots. Let’s see if they care to inspect or even answer.
What do you guys think about this?
01-23-2008
, 11:30 AM
01-23-2008
, 11:55 AM
Quote:
A friend of mine came across a weird player with nick knipkniht at Ongame NLHE100 5max (blinds $0.50 and $1.00) a couple of days ago. My friend was multitabling at the time so I took some time to research this player after my friend claimed that he played like a very predictable poker bot. knipkniht was 4-tabling at the time so I had chance to observe him in real time. It gave me opportunity to see how much time he used to react and so on and obviously to get to see more hands from him.
What I noticed about this player after spectating him and combining some hand history (232 hands in total) from him:
-always buys in with $10
-always leaves instantly after folding UTG if he has doubled to ANY amount over $10
-always shoves SB with any two if everyone has folded (5 sec timing)
-always shoves BB with any two if everyone but SB has folded (and SB has only completed the blind) (5 sec timing)
-when he open shoves from elsewhere he has about range of QJo+, 66+
-he always shoves the whole stack (well what else are you going to shove)
-he never just calls
-he always shoves the flop if he hits top pair or better when he has seen flop free from BB in a multiway pot
I know that these are basic short stacking tactics. But here is it where it comes interesting:
-the player always plays according to his rules, absolutely no exceptions
-timing in shoves is VERY predictable (about 5 sec)
-he leaves the table even when doubling to only like $12 (who human would play with a discipline like that?)
-he always rebuys to $10 if he loses his stack and he always does that so slowly that he misses the next hand. If he should have posted any blind next hand he will post the missed blind and won’t wait for BB.
Okey, that is not much of prove yet but still pretty interesting. So I went to summary tab of my Poker Tracker and tried to find a similar player (based on VPIP and PFR being close to the knipkniht). I found this one player HarryKings with VPIP and PFR both of 22.45 after 196 hands. The original guy, knipkniht, had 22.41 in both of these values. Then I looked up Game Notes to see how he actually played. What I found was that he played exactly like knipkniht, with absolutely no exceptions. I found this guy online later that day and he was also 4-tabling like knipkniht and timings and so on seemed very much like knipknight’s. I did not spectate him for long time, though.
I did some Googling and here is what I found out:
-Both players showed up in many hand histories after October 2007 (with exception of couple hands by HarryKings in June 2007)
-They had minimum stacks in those hand histories too
-HarryKings and his playing style were mentioned on 2+2:
(Taken from: **** Official Cake/UB/AP/Prima/Everest/etc Regs thread **** )
I looked up my stats on SoRonrey:
410 hands VPIP 27.56 PFR 27.07 (2 hands that only called preflop, mucked or folded both of those so can’t see those hands from PT without manual research).
I also found him playing online, 4 tabling. He did not have same timings as two previous players. He also played more loose after limpers and from the button. He even timed out once. He did however always leave after folding hand from UTG if he had doubled and he would also shove as supposed to and so on.
Ongame shows location of the players if they have entered those:
knipkniht: some Chinese place or something, like Tao-Yon District or something. I must say that Chinese are known for suspected methods in online gambling. Is poker even legal there?
HarryKings: I did not look it up.
SoRonrey: Only * as location.
PT Stats:
Edited to same picture some basic stats:
Other stuff
Some notes about the stats: knipkniht did not have infinity as AF at flop because he once flopped a set with 44 from BB (checked PF) and called an all-in that came before his turn.
In short:
2 very similar players suspected to be bots, Ongame NLHE100 and NLHE50 5max, maybe bots or players playing with very strict rules, third player pretty much like previous two but little different (more loose and had some weird timings). Player nicks knipkniht, HarryKings and SoRonrey
Final words:
It is obviously impossible for a spectator like me to provide any water-proof evidences (and I am not interested in doing that either) because he does not has access to player whole history or even some screenshots what other, better and more secure poker software, might take. Network histories (IP addresses) could also provide interesting info about at least possible multiaccounting.
After spectating these two first players, knipkniht and HarryKings, it seemed very obvious for me that most certainly it was not a human controlling those players. I can be wrong of course; a very disciplined player could probably play like that. I am very sorry if one you are playing under one of those nicks. However I don’t think it is very probable that those nicknames are controlled by a human player, the player was always in need to search new tables after leaving from some old ones and I think that would have affected his timings. About the third player, SoRonrey, I am not so sure. At least it is not run by same software or version of software and it did not have same timings as previous two.
I am not going to post almost thousand hand histories here but everything I said is based on HH's. I can post same later if you want.
I quickly looked up the TC of a random Ongame-site. I did not find ban for poker bots but I guess it would not be tolerated. I e-mailed Eurobet few minutes ago (customer-services@eurobet.com ) about these possible bots. Let’s see if they care to inspect or even answer.
What do you guys think about this?
What I noticed about this player after spectating him and combining some hand history (232 hands in total) from him:
-always buys in with $10
-always leaves instantly after folding UTG if he has doubled to ANY amount over $10
-always shoves SB with any two if everyone has folded (5 sec timing)
-always shoves BB with any two if everyone but SB has folded (and SB has only completed the blind) (5 sec timing)
-when he open shoves from elsewhere he has about range of QJo+, 66+
-he always shoves the whole stack (well what else are you going to shove)
-he never just calls
-he always shoves the flop if he hits top pair or better when he has seen flop free from BB in a multiway pot
I know that these are basic short stacking tactics. But here is it where it comes interesting:
-the player always plays according to his rules, absolutely no exceptions
-timing in shoves is VERY predictable (about 5 sec)
-he leaves the table even when doubling to only like $12 (who human would play with a discipline like that?)
-he always rebuys to $10 if he loses his stack and he always does that so slowly that he misses the next hand. If he should have posted any blind next hand he will post the missed blind and won’t wait for BB.
Okey, that is not much of prove yet but still pretty interesting. So I went to summary tab of my Poker Tracker and tried to find a similar player (based on VPIP and PFR being close to the knipkniht). I found this one player HarryKings with VPIP and PFR both of 22.45 after 196 hands. The original guy, knipkniht, had 22.41 in both of these values. Then I looked up Game Notes to see how he actually played. What I found was that he played exactly like knipkniht, with absolutely no exceptions. I found this guy online later that day and he was also 4-tabling like knipkniht and timings and so on seemed very much like knipknight’s. I did not spectate him for long time, though.
I did some Googling and here is what I found out:
-Both players showed up in many hand histories after October 2007 (with exception of couple hands by HarryKings in June 2007)
-They had minimum stacks in those hand histories too
-HarryKings and his playing style were mentioned on 2+2:
(Taken from: **** Official Cake/UB/AP/Prima/Everest/etc Regs thread **** )
I looked up my stats on SoRonrey:
410 hands VPIP 27.56 PFR 27.07 (2 hands that only called preflop, mucked or folded both of those so can’t see those hands from PT without manual research).
I also found him playing online, 4 tabling. He did not have same timings as two previous players. He also played more loose after limpers and from the button. He even timed out once. He did however always leave after folding hand from UTG if he had doubled and he would also shove as supposed to and so on.
Ongame shows location of the players if they have entered those:
knipkniht: some Chinese place or something, like Tao-Yon District or something. I must say that Chinese are known for suspected methods in online gambling. Is poker even legal there?
HarryKings: I did not look it up.
SoRonrey: Only * as location.
PT Stats:
Edited to same picture some basic stats:
Other stuff
Some notes about the stats: knipkniht did not have infinity as AF at flop because he once flopped a set with 44 from BB (checked PF) and called an all-in that came before his turn.
In short:
2 very similar players suspected to be bots, Ongame NLHE100 and NLHE50 5max, maybe bots or players playing with very strict rules, third player pretty much like previous two but little different (more loose and had some weird timings). Player nicks knipkniht, HarryKings and SoRonrey
Final words:
It is obviously impossible for a spectator like me to provide any water-proof evidences (and I am not interested in doing that either) because he does not has access to player whole history or even some screenshots what other, better and more secure poker software, might take. Network histories (IP addresses) could also provide interesting info about at least possible multiaccounting.
After spectating these two first players, knipkniht and HarryKings, it seemed very obvious for me that most certainly it was not a human controlling those players. I can be wrong of course; a very disciplined player could probably play like that. I am very sorry if one you are playing under one of those nicks. However I don’t think it is very probable that those nicknames are controlled by a human player, the player was always in need to search new tables after leaving from some old ones and I think that would have affected his timings. About the third player, SoRonrey, I am not so sure. At least it is not run by same software or version of software and it did not have same timings as previous two.
I am not going to post almost thousand hand histories here but everything I said is based on HH's. I can post same later if you want.
I quickly looked up the TC of a random Ongame-site. I did not find ban for poker bots but I guess it would not be tolerated. I e-mailed Eurobet few minutes ago (customer-services@eurobet.com ) about these possible bots. Let’s see if they care to inspect or even answer.
What do you guys think about this?
You say in your post that it is possible that some very disciplined players play like this. So basically what you are doing is you are calling out three people for short stacking without any proof. It's not bad to bring up this evidence, it's pretty reckless of you to give away their screen names without being 100% sure yourself.
"He did however always leave after folding hand from UTG if he had doubled and he would also shove as supposed to and so on."
Standard Short stack play.
"after my friend claimed that he played like a very predictable poker bot"
Or he could be a disciplined poker player. There are a few of them out there.
"he leaves the table even when doubling to only like $12 (who human would play with a discipline like that?)"
This is short stacking strategy, you lose your short stacking edge if you are no longer a short stack.
And what human would do that? I can name quite a few pro short stackers who play exactly like that.You have his playing style picked out. Go take his money, report him to support, but do not be an asshat and make his name public when you have speculative proof at best.
01-23-2008
, 12:16 PM
Quote:
"dubblethru" is another player i suspect is a bot. He shortstacks the 200nl. buys in for the minimum and makes the same predictable shoves in hands where everyone has folded except the blinds or on hands with one limper or hands where he has any ace etc. not sure exactly what type of hands he pushes on as i havent analyzed it in depth. I just know he hits his ace against my pocket pair everytime lol. Other than taking my money there is no way this bot is making $.
Ive made a point in the last couple weeks to ask type in the chatbox "dubblethru are you a robot" but i haven't gotten a response.
Ive made a point in the last couple weeks to ask type in the chatbox "dubblethru are you a robot" but i haven't gotten a response.
Or he could have his chat turned off.
01-23-2008
, 05:20 PM
