Yeah, OP small mistake blown into a huge mistake and potential publicity nightmare for CET.

Just reading thread for 1st time. Def needs some PokerCast attention. This is not even close to a small thing or a 'misunderstanding'. Shine a very bright light on this.

^ +1 Bring the cop on the show!

What are the odds of getting JayLV on?

1 in 3. They usually have a few of the November 9 on.

Ok, so I'll throw out JC tran and Raptor as possible guests, so there the 33% of the field to pull from, and now all then need to do is land 1.

Lauren Kling! she had a pretty good run in the main this year and shes super hot soooo....

David Sklansky Please

More Matt Moore please!

Carlos Mortensen... his WSOP story

amir lehavot!

+1

I'm not sure if the "Forum Static" bit occurs every show, but this is one of the most entertaining 2+2 threads I've ever seen (assuming you're a sports fan). Props to the S&G crowd over there:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/46...lieve-1351476/

Big fan since the rounders days! Keep up the good work!

Would love to see a mixed game dedicated segment. Say 10-20 minutes discussing badugi, triple draw, stud or whatever's on tap for that week. There's so many games and variants, cash versus mtt, the topics are endless. But no ofc .

Wasn't there an expected revival of the Hellmuth Minute?

+1 on mixed games. Isnt CeeGee a CR guy? - seems a natural

Get the guy on whos father passed away during wsop. Ask him to explain chip dumping hand.

Barth Melius (I believe Barth is a nickname and his first name is David). He was the player in the 9 seat who witnessed the chip dumping attempt involving David Doc Sands. He's also apparently the only one who spoke up about the incident.

Was he the only one with the sense to recognize a chip dumping attempt occurred or was he the only one who was brave enough to speak up? What exactly was discussed in regards to the matter with the dealer and floor if anything at all? Why did Jack Effel basically brush Barth off when he attempted to inform him of what he saw when they crossed paths in the hallway? Does the fact that the chip dump attempt backfired serve as punishment (poker results oriented punishment is not actual punishment)? Why was Drew McIlvain disqualified from a WSOP Circuit event and banned from the property when he was in a similar situation and David Sands' situation in the WSOP ME is ignored? Should justice prevail or should cheaters get away with it?

Such a segment could bring attention to why collusion / chip dumping is wrong - many do not think anything was done wrong in this instance so how can chip dumping be prevented if it can't be acknowledged as wrong when it happens?

Sending a message is the right thing to do, and besides, controversy draws listeners.

Raj Ajmeri.

Would love to hear his thoughts on the matter but might be too sensitive considering dead father and all. But yes, somebody who was involved: Barth Melius (I think most likely to be willing to discuss), Raj Ajmeri, David Sands, another player at the table, dealer, floor, Jack Effel, Seth Palansky (VP of Corporate Communications at Caesars Entertainment who spoke about Drew McIlvain's disqualification / ban last year).

Props to jigsaw for finding the name. Its been several weeks I think he'd be ok to talk now.

Drew hand almost identical scenario another good find by 2p2

Your post insinuates that this was a clear cut/black and white case of collusion. I don't believe everyone/most people agrees that's the case. Referring to David as a cheater is extremely presumptuous and an opinion, not a fact.

Your absolutely correct. How would I know anyway as I was not even there? I'm just putting pieces together based on Barth's account and trying to form my own logical conclusion.

The consensus here, might even lean more towards not much else could have been done, nothing was done wrong, no big deal, forget about it. However, the idea of chip dumping in a vacuum is undeniably wrong. So how is an example of chip dumping in the open not wrong? Basically, chip dumping is wrong, unless it's confusing and you don't know how else to handle it then it becomes ok, wtf?

My insinuation of Sands aside, Raj Ajmeri did attempt to chip dump. Based on Barth's account this is fact simply proven by the fact that he clearly played his hand to lose and not win.

What is also fact is that this is not unprecedented. Here we have one player trying to dump chips to another and no punishment is given. Last year in a similar situation where one player tried to dump chips to Drew McIlvain, he was disqualified and banned. These were both WSOP sanctioned events and surely the rules are supposed to be the same. If WSOP was consist with their rules, David Sands would be facing the same fate. So why did the same rules not apply? Would this not merit an explanation if not an investigation?

Anyway, a suggested segment that would draw interested listeners.

You know what, I retract my statement of "You're absolutely correct" because you are actually mistaken. Put aside the idea that insinuations towards David Sands are simply being made by speculative NVG posters and absorb this...


This comes from a Poker News interview: Rich Ryan article from 2/17/12 with Seth Palansky, the Vice President of Corporate Communications at Caesars Entertainment:


Q: What would have been done if Drew (or David Sands) then relayed that information to the floor?

A: It’s hard to hypothetically determine that, but obviously it’s against the rules to collude, so his proper course of action is to notify the tournament staff that someone has attempted to collude with him.

At the end of the day, an act took place that was collusion, and any party involved in colluding is not tolerated in our events.

Q: Is there anything else you would like to add?

A: In general, for readers to understand, this happens from time to time. No one is suggesting that anyone entered the tournament with a scheme to chip-dump, collude, or cheat. You don’t have to be the instigator to find yourself in a situation that affects your standing in an event or at our properties. It’s not about intent.

...It’s just not wise to put yourself in a situation where you gain chips dishonorably.

We have to ensure that this doesn’t occur — whether it’s intentional or not is not the bar.



Seth explains, in a sense setting a precedent, that if a player is on the receiving end of a chip dumping attempt, is aware of the possibility, and plays along, then he is GUILTY.

No exoneration from any 'there was nothing else I could have done bulls***'

So it's only a matter of whether Barth's account is a fabrication or not because the protagonist in his story is guilty of willful participation of attempted chip dumping, or in other words cheating.

Dare to be brave and call him out on this. Send a message that this kind of thing is wrong. Too many people don't see it. You might even help serve the greater good. Would make for a hell of a segment.

Seth is neither a tournament director nor person of authority on tournament poker rules. He is a communications rep for the WSOP. If Jack Effel comes out and says 'we should have disqualified Doc Sands and Raj Amjeri' then you have something.

Even then, I believe that Doc would have been DQ'ed on a technicality, not because he is a cheater. Anyone calling him a cheater based on the circumstances that he unknowingly found himself placed in is WAY off-base.