Pokercast 456 - David Sklansky & Absolute Poker Refunds with Rich Muny - Page 2 - Two Plus Two Pokercast

I'm not sure on the tilt never causing people to fail as poker pros. Maybe you have a definition issue? How do we prove someone was good enough? If you add in life leaks to tilt, we've seen tons of people who are believed good players who spent too much. Add in folks who played too big (even compulsively?) and went busto. Are those things tilt? Poor judgment? Lots of people play poker fine but can't survive as pros. 2+2 is full of stories of named pros turned scammer. Assuming they ever played well enough to be favorites to win, something stopped them. Calling that a mental game issue doesn't seem absurd. During the online heyday, you certainly saw long term winners go nuts and play HUHU matches for ego. Isn't that tilt?

I know a couple people who crushed online who couldn't transition to live. They couldn't hack the boredom, frustration, and lower stakes. They're not pros now because they couldn't perform in a live setting.

Let me be more explicit. I have never met someone who was good enough to make forty or more dollars an hour playing poker who couldn't make thirty at a job let tilt knock him out of poker permanently. Lessor winners yes. Those with good jobs waiting for them yes. But those in that first category eventually find a way to keep their emotions at bay without paying coaches, and grind their way back.

04-29-2017 , 12:37 PM

#28

DougL

Too helpful for this post

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 21,810

I can name one who played high stakes online HUHU LHE.

04-29-2017 , 05:03 PM

#29

that_pope

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 33,227

And now is a driver for Jimmy Johns?

05-04-2017 , 01:08 AM

#30

dzikijohnny

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,216

Does Mike Matesow count?????? But the truth is I think that David and Mason have very little EQ and a very high IQ. I think that if you were to cut them their blood would be green. Reading Painless Poker's intro were Tommy describes the cost of tilting is enough to make both of David and Mason look silly trying to say there is no cost.

05-04-2017 , 06:48 AM

#31

Mason Malmuth

Former Top Dog

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 13,014

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzikijohnny

Except we never said this

MM

05-04-2017 , 08:31 AM

#32

Clovis8

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 16,503

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth

Except we never said this

MM

Funny how often you and David have to post about things you "never said" that the entire audience heard. Reminds me of a certain president.

05-04-2017 , 07:21 PM

#33

STinLA

old hand

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,882

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clovis8

Funny how often you and David have to post about things you "never said" that the entire audience heard. Reminds me of a certain president.

They didn't say there is zero cost to tilting. FFS, there's even a drop now with Sklansky saying not tilting is obviously better than tilting, which would make no sense if he believed tilting did not have a cost. What they were unambiguously skeptical about is whether mindset coaching will solve the underlying problems that lead to tilting.

05-05-2017 , 01:36 AM

#34

David Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,078

Quote:

Originally Posted by STinLA

I am NOT skeptical about that. Rather what I said was that gaining the willpower to not tilt (where tilt is defined as playing bad hands after a bad beat) is something that people can do without help IF not doing it means they now have to get a job they hate. And I say that because thousands of professional gamblers control themselves simply by integrating the concept of EV into their thought processes. You don't need a mindset coach to help you do that unless your brain is so screwed up that it is extremely unlikely you could play professinally even when not on tilt.

05-05-2017 , 01:40 AM

#35

David Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,078

There is though, one place where a mindset coach could probably help a lot of people. I speak of those who are so impatient to play that they jump into games before they are adequately prepared. Or those who who think they know all there is to know even though they have not seriously studied the game. In other words mindset coaches are in fact valuable if their main goal is to persuade students to read our books.

05-05-2017 , 08:16 AM

#36

Clovis8

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 16,503

Now Sklansky has to post about what he "really said" in response to someone trying to support him.

Here is a possibility, you are not the clear brilliant communicator you so so often claim to be.

You made a terrible, poorly formed argument. Accept it and move on. We've all done it. I did so earlier in this very thread. A sign of intellect is admitting when you are so obviously wrong.

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