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Old 05-26-2016, 04:16 PM   #126
rhcp0
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

Thanks that is really great answer.
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Old 06-19-2016, 03:58 AM   #127
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

Two questions:

- Why coffee with butter in, not coffee with full fat milk?

- what is the tc take on the health impact of bacon and other cured meats?
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Old 06-19-2016, 05:47 PM   #128
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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Two questions:

- Why coffee with butter in, not coffee with full fat milk?

- what is the tc take on the health impact of bacon and other cured meats?
#1 lactose and casein, basically. Even lactose tolerant people will get some mild inflammation from lactose. Also in the contexts that people tend to do the butter coffee thing, they generally want a higher fat and lower protein profile.

I don't really do the butter coffee thing very often (my nutritional needs as an athlete are different), but it is quite useful when playing poker.

#2 cured meats can be a problem for sure. The nitrite/nitrate thing is a bit controversial; a lot of people think it's the devil and others think it's benign (hey there's nitrates in celery). I don't think the science is decided here but I know one way to mitigate these issues is to smoke/cure the meat yourself.

Another cool thing I did for those who have done 23andme, I put my data into a free genetic report and found out I have the NAT2 polymorphism, which in a nutshell means that I am more likely than the average person to get cancer from eating cured/smoked meats or meats cooked at very high temperatures. So I am backing off on the bacon a little as well as anything that involves frying/grilling/etc. But throwing some good baby back ribs in a slow cooker is pretty delicious, so I'll survive. I highly recommend getting genetic testing done if you enjoy crushing packages of bacon or smoked/cured meats.
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Old 06-21-2016, 10:59 AM   #129
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

Whas your take on sodium? Do you add salt to your food? Could it be a problem to get enought sodium when eating unprocessed food diet?
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:10 PM   #130
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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I don't think the science is decided here but I know one way to mitigate these issues is to smoke/cure the meat yourself.
Cool. Mrs Kokiri has talked about building our own smoker, now we can do it *for our health*.
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Old 06-23-2016, 07:28 AM   #131
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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How would you explain that some people thrive on vegetarian diets?
I try all different diets and can't find a good one. There is always price of hunger I need to pay to keep slim. Do you think tha is price some people just need to pay? I listen to a few podcasts on nutrition a day and read a lot but for some reason your opinion makes it more clear what is right in the ocean of information.

Where do you get your information from besides robb wolf, ben greenfield?
The longest living healthy populations live on a whole food plant based diet. I would suggest you look into this diet: https://www.amazon.com/Starch-Soluti...tarch+solution

If you don't want to buy the book, you can get the diet for free at Dr. McDougal's website: https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/e...ugall-program/

There is only one diet that has been shown to prevent and reverse the #1 killer in the USA, heart disease. That is a whole food, plant based diet. For this reason alone, it should be the default diet that one should try. In addition, however, this diet will solve the problems associated with almost every chronic disease such as diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity, and even cancer. If you want a long term health solution, eat real food, mostly plants. Check out "The Blue Zones".
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Old 06-23-2016, 11:12 PM   #132
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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The longest living healthy populations live on a whole food plant based diet. I would suggest you look into this diet: https://www.amazon.com/Starch-Soluti...tarch+solution
There are also Blue Zones where people eat a lot of animal products like Sardinia and Icaria so this argument is pretty weak. You could point to Okinawans etc. and look at any factor that is different, and suggest that's why they live longer with as much certainty as you can say it's their diet.
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Old 06-24-2016, 12:25 PM   #133
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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There are also Blue Zones where people eat a lot of animal products like Sardinia and Icaria so this argument is pretty weak. You could point to Okinawans etc. and look at any factor that is different, and suggest that's why they live longer with as much certainty as you can say it's their diet.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/...the-blue-zones

A quote from the article above:

In the new book, which was released April 7, Buettner distills the researchers' findings on what all the Blue Zones share when it comes to their diet. Here's a taste:

Stop eating when your stomach is 80 percent full to avoid weight gain.
Eat the smallest meal of the day in the late afternoon or evening.
Eat mostly plants, especially beans. And eat meat rarely, in small portions of 3 to 4 ounces. Blue Zoners eat portions this size just five times a month, on average.
Drink alcohol moderately and regularly, i.e. 1-2 glasses a day.
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Old 06-24-2016, 12:33 PM   #134
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

"Cowspiracy" in now on Netflix. I had mentioned it previously before it got on Netflix. If you consider yourself to be an environmentalist, this movie is a must see. Animal agriculture is a major contributor to global warming as well as creating many more problems including health issues....
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Old 06-24-2016, 04:35 PM   #135
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:27 AM   #136
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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I don't really do the butter coffee thing very often (my nutritional needs as an athlete are different), but it is quite useful when playing poker.

#2 cured meats can be a problem for sure. The nitrite/nitrate thing is a bit controversial; a lot of people think it's the devil and others think it's benign (hey there's nitrates in celery). I don't think the science is decided here but I know one way to mitigate these issues is to smoke/cure the meat yourself.
No offense, but you guys should not be giving advice on nutrition.
Since Adam did not mention any medical background degree for either one of you, I assume you just read up on stuff on the internet.
You should leave giving in-depth advice to medical and nutrional experts (to be fair, not all of them know what they are talking about).
I only read some of Terrance's posts, so maybe I should only mention him and not Jason.

Cured/processed/red meats have been shown to be carsinogenic (an agent directly involved in causing cancer) a long time ago. This is not some vegan hippy conspiracy. No expert will tell you that these foods are healthy and they should be avoided. No matter what your genetic profile looks like.

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerc...an-carcinogens


And you guys talk about butter in coffee? Since when is butter healthy for you?


EDIT:
I read a little bit more of what Terrance wrote, and it's getting worse and worse.
You are basically the same as all these bodybuilders giving advice on nutrition, despite having no clue what they are talking about.
Carbs are the devil, protein powder and BCAAs are our Gods and make sure to never ever eat fruit, am I right?
Your advice may allow people to lose some weight, but it will not be making people healthy.

What you are doing is irresponsible and dangerous. You are confusing people who want to learn something about this topic and giving them bad habbits.
Of course you are right about the obvious stuff like sleeping enough, not eating fries, working out etc., but beyond that it gets bad.

Sorry to be so harsh, but this whole thread is just not a good idea.

EDIT 2: Not sorry anymore, Terrance. You absolutely have no clue what you are talking about.
We appreciate that you are genuinely trying to help people without selling any programs or products, but please stop this mess.

Last edited by Mixgrill; 06-25-2016 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 06-25-2016, 12:12 PM   #137
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

Mixgrill, you advise others not to give nutritional advice because they don't have a medical background, then you go ahead and give advice without providing your qualifications. One of the greatest researchers in the nutrional field did not have medical qualifications, Nathan Pritikin. Doctors get minimal training in medical school on nutrition so I disagree with your premise.

I agree with your take on bacon, but your condescending attitude towards others overshadows your advice and will not change anyone's mind.
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Old 06-25-2016, 01:20 PM   #138
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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EDIT 2: Not sorry anymore, Terrance. You absolutely have no clue what you are talking about.
We appreciate that you are genuinely trying to help people without selling any programs or products, but please stop this mess.
I am only going to get into the meta-discussion once and then I am done with it.

If people stop asking me for advice, I will stop responding to them. This thread was not my idea. I do not hold myself up as an expert. If you listened to the interview with JKoon which led to this thread, you would know this.

Here is what I am:
- someone who cares about peoples' health and well-being
- someone who studies this s**t a lot

That is all I purport to be. I have, as you point out, zero medical qualifications (by the way, this is relevant - most doctors don't learn anything about nutrition in medical school).

I also have no qualifications when it comes to talking about poker. And yet for some reason I am asked for my opinion on poker hands literally every day. No one has ever said that my advice is dangerous and destroy somebody's bankroll, even though it is potentially just as true as your claim. I spent basically my entire 20s studying poker, learning from people more knowledgeable than me. It worked out well, and I made a lot of money from poker. Now I am in my 30s and I have spent most of those years learning about living a high-quality healthy life. There are people who know a lot more about poker than me, and there are people who know a lot more about nutrition, exercise, sleep, and stress management than I do.

Again, if people stop asking me advice, I will stop answering them. But I'm not going to spend any more time on circular debates. If you think I haven't spent far too many hours on the red meat and processed meat topics, you're f'ing crazy. I've gone through phases of almost no red meat, and phases with gobs of red meat. I've done genetic testing and gut biome testing. I've drawn conclusions on some things, and have yet to draw conclusions on others. If this bothers you, I'm sorry - but you should probably simply stop reading the thread.
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Old 06-25-2016, 03:31 PM   #139
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

Oh look, the Queen of England has been low-carb for years

Quote:
"If she has fish, it will be something like grilled salmon with some vegetables and a nice salad. Then a bowl of fruit would be her pudding. If it is meat then it is often game. She might have a venison steak, or a little piece of pheasant – that is fantastic protein."

He hints Her Majesty is a Queen of ketosis, shunning all starchy carbs. McGrady added: "She would cut out all the carbs. She does not have any bread with the meal. She would not have any potatoes, rice, pasta. It would just be the vegetables."
Since it's not like the Queen would have access to any medical and nutritional experts, she probably got this idea reading broscience bodybuilder articles on the internet, right?
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Old 06-26-2016, 09:21 AM   #140
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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Mixgrill, you advise others not to give nutritional advice because they don't have a medical background, then you go ahead and give advice without providing your qualifications. One of the greatest researchers in the nutrional field did not have medical qualifications, Nathan Pritikin. Doctors get minimal training in medical school on nutrition so I disagree with your premise.
Other than saying those meats are bad for you and giving a source, I am not giving any advice. I am also not the one making a thread about nutrition.

Yes, there are unqualified people who know what they are talking about and you have doctors like Dr. Oz who are morons, but that extreme scenerio is rare, and definitely does not apply here.

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I am only going to get into the meta-discussion once and then I am done with it.

If people stop asking me for advice, I will stop responding to them. This thread was not my idea. I do not hold myself up as an expert. If you listened to the interview with JKoon which led to this thread, you would know this.

Here is what I am:
- someone who cares about peoples' health and well-being
- someone who studies this s**t a lot

That is all I purport to be. I have, as you point out, zero medical qualifications (by the way, this is relevant - most doctors don't learn anything about nutrition in medical school).

I also have no qualifications when it comes to talking about poker. And yet for some reason I am asked for my opinion on poker hands literally every day. No one has ever said that my advice is dangerous and destroy somebody's bankroll, even though it is potentially just as true as your claim. I spent basically my entire 20s studying poker, learning from people more knowledgeable than me. It worked out well, and I made a lot of money from poker. Now I am in my 30s and I have spent most of those years learning about living a high-quality healthy life. There are people who know a lot more about poker than me, and there are people who know a lot more about nutrition, exercise, sleep, and stress management than I do.

Again, if people stop asking me advice, I will stop answering them. But I'm not going to spend any more time on circular debates. If you think I haven't spent far too many hours on the red meat and processed meat topics, you're f'ing crazy. I've gone through phases of almost no red meat, and phases with gobs of red meat. I've done genetic testing and gut biome testing. I've drawn conclusions on some things, and have yet to draw conclusions on others. If this bothers you, I'm sorry - but you should probably simply stop reading the thread.
Some doctors may not be be experts, but we should still leave it to actual experts to give advice. Reading up on stuff may make you competent enough to give advice, but this is clearly not the case with you, judging from your opinions.

There are no degrees when for poker. You'd most likely be labeled an expert if degrees existed for poker.


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Oh look, the Queen of England has been low-carb for years



Since it's not like the Queen would have access to any medical and nutritional experts, she probably got this idea reading broscience bodybuilder articles on the internet, right?
What if the queen had died 20 years ago? Would that have refuted this dumb story? Weak anecdotal evidence and some logical fallacy that I don't know the name of because my English sucks too much.

Obama and the rest of the world leaders have nutrition experts too. Why aren't they on this diet? One important person being on this diet has very little merit.

Last edited by Mixgrill; 06-26-2016 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:26 PM   #141
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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Some doctors may not be be experts, but we should still leave it to actual experts to give advice.
This is a public forum and everybody who is asked to is allowed to provide advice. It's up to the person who asked for advice to decide what to make of the answer they received.

If you don't think the answers of tchan are helpful, you have every right to stay out of this thread. Or you can provide scientific evidence that refutes his answers. But basically just saying "you are wrong, don't give advice" without providing proof that shows why he is wrong, is a form of discussion that isn't welcomed on most boards, including 2+2.
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Old 06-26-2016, 05:42 PM   #142
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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Other than saying those meats are bad for you and giving a source, I am not giving any advice.
You've given advice in that you've advised other people that they shouldn't listen to anything Terrence says because you have a source that refutes one single point out of the dozens in the thread.

If he's wrong about one thing (which I agree with, the consensus on red and cured meats seems pretty convincing and I rarely eat them), just make that single point instead of going on a vitriolic rant that attacks his entire character.
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Old 06-26-2016, 06:50 PM   #143
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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This is a public forum and everybody who is asked to is allowed to provide advice. It's up to the person who asked for advice to decide what to make of the answer they received.

If you don't think the answers of tchan are helpful, you have every right to stay out of this thread. Or you can provide scientific evidence that refutes his answers. But basically just saying "you are wrong, don't give advice" without providing proof that shows why he is wrong, is a form of discussion that isn't welcomed on most boards, including 2+2.
He can do whatever he wants, I am just saying I think it is a bad idea to start a thread and giving out advice about a subject you don't know enough about.
If this were a thread about him giving poker advice, It would be great.

And I provided a legitimate source about the example I gave.

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You've given advice in that you've advised other people that they shouldn't listen to anything Terrence says because you have a source that refutes one single point out of the dozens in the thread.

If he's wrong about one thing (which I agree with, the consensus on red and cured meats seems pretty convincing and I rarely eat them), just make that single point instead of going on a vitriolic rant that attacks his entire character.
Yeah, I said we shouldn't listen to his advice (that may be advice), but I am not making threads about nutrition advice here.
And I apologised about being rude in my original post. Terrance seems be a good guy and a good player who is trying to help people.

I mentioned one thing that is blatantly wrong and dumb, but that doesn't mean the rest made much more sense, other than the obvious stuff.

Last edited by Mixgrill; 06-26-2016 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 06-28-2016, 01:32 PM   #144
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

Mixgrill, who should we listen to/trust for this information? Specifically. The Internet is clogged with "experts" on this subject, just wondering if there are any you would recommend?
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Old 06-29-2016, 07:32 AM   #145
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

Hi Terrence, thanks for the thread. Few questions. What is exactly post workout window? Can I eat simple carbs 1h post workout? 1.5hour? How many carbs will be not too much to fill the liver glycogen post workout?

What your diet would look like if u have to be on a budget?
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Old 06-29-2016, 12:40 PM   #146
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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This seems like a bit of a sweeping judgement. I'm not sure if it's trolling and that's why no one cares to respond, but I'll take the bait just this once.

If no one who eats meat can call themselves an environmentalist, should the same be said for people who drive cars? Considering the environmental impact of auto manufacturing, the never ending necessity for gas, the incredible impact of developing and maintaining infrastructure, etc.....

And what about those people who take public transit or bike to work; do they offset their reduced environmental impact when they stuff a hot dog down their gullet?

What about people who purchase plastic products, which are primarily derived from petrochemicals these days?

And what of those who have children, adding one more meat-eating, car-driving, manufactured-product-purchasing individual to an overpopulated planet?

My exaggerated point is, where is the line drawn? I think being an environmentalist is about awareness, and through it, doing one's best to reduce their impact within the means of their social and geographical constraints; not preaching one's personal beliefs and judging those who don't live by the same self-sanctioned rules.

I suspect if you performed an ecological footprint assessment on yourself, you'd find several sources where your lifestyle choices have a negative impact on the environment.
I would suggest that you watch this presentation so you aren't comfortably unaware:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPd_...ature=youtu.be
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Old 06-30-2016, 05:09 PM   #147
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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Hi Terrence, thanks for the thread. Few questions. What is exactly post workout window? Can I eat simple carbs 1h post workout? 1.5hour? How many carbs will be not too much to fill the liver glycogen post workout?

What your diet would look like if u have to be on a budget?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3577439/

Alan Aragon knows his stuff, the rest is Broscience.
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Old 07-03-2016, 11:19 PM   #148
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

Hello Terence,

Can I get a few of your best meals for when you are both trying to lose weight and have a very busy day. I struggle to think of many quick go-to healthy meals when time is limited. Thanks.
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Old 07-13-2016, 11:55 AM   #149
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

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Hello Terence,

Can I get a few of your best meals for when you are both trying to lose weight and have a very busy day. I struggle to think of many quick go-to healthy meals when time is limited. Thanks.
If you're busy, the best investment you can make is a slow-cooker with a timer. Just pile the food in, set it and forget it. When I'm playing poker or training I cook almost everything in a slow-cooker. It's generally healthier too to slow-cook rather than blast the hell out of your food.

Meats that I particularly like to go in a slow cooker are tougher cuts like lamb and pork shoulders, shanks, etc. Vegetables that tend to go well are carrots, onions, beets, etc (crunchy vegetables, not so much leafy ones). Use lots of spices and herbs if it's going to be in there a long time.

Here's a zillion recipes: http://allrecipes.com/recipes/253/ev...g/slow-cooker/
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Old 10-08-2016, 01:26 PM   #150
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Re: Official thread on diet and exercise by Terrence Chan and Jason Koon

I try to follow paleo diet but I just watched this video with arguments against information in Robb Wolf book. Its pretty funny and actually made we doubt a bit in paleo science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptkXTvBW6Xc
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