I recently came across a free training site for NL100 thru NL400. I started reading some of the advice and watching the vids and saw some very suspect plays and read some very suspect advice. So, read this, I copied it from his training site. If it makes sense and seems like a "strong play" then maybe I should start watching his stuff. If this dude is makes sense then he could teach me ALOT. But i dont think he makes sense.


His "New move" please tell me, without any leveling sarcasm if this is a logical thought process cause i dont follow it AT ALL. It seems REALLY dumb to me. Please tell me if he's making any sense here???

Direct Quote:
I mentioned a new move called the showdown raise during this session. It is similar to a blocking bet, which we learned about in Trikkur 8, but it can be used while you are in position instead of out of position. The goal of a showdown raise is the same as a blocking bet – you like your hand, but want to see a showdown for cheap. A showdown raise can be used when your opponent bets into you on the turn; and then you make a small raise of 2.5-3x of their bet size.

A villain with a made hand will often just call in this spot with a wide range of hands. His weak to medium strength hands will have no reason to raise and will either fold or call with intentions of check/folding the river. This allows you to get value from these weaker made hands, while protecting yourself from a triple barrel bluff. We wouldn’t make a showdown raise if we could call a triple barrel, so stealing that fold equity from our opponent with a similar hand range to ours is a very strong play.
So, thats stupid right???

And he did this stuff too.

Suspect play number one; villain open raises 3X from HJ and HERO 3 bets from BB with TT. He says "i'm just gonna go ahead and stack off if HJ shoves" but HJ folded. They both had full stacks BTW, 100 bbs effective
Another hand he actually did just that against a player with about half a stack. Villain had 88 and Heros TT held. I would not have stacked off with TT vs four bet shove. If i had a good read i could MAYBE call the shove with JJ, never 99, and i don't think i'm calling with TT either. It could be close if you have stats but this guy didnt have a HUD running or anything. But this instructor was up a buy in and a half between 4 tables in about 20 minutes so maybe its me??
Suspect play 3;
Villain opens 3X from CO with a short stack (30BBs) and hero calls from BB with AJ (pot has $6.50)
FLOP:468
Hero says "my AJ is good here most of the time so I'm just gonna over bet shove the flop to steal his fold equity." Hero shoves all in and villain folds.

Is this the utter nonsense it seems to me or should i be watching this stuff? Because i dont get any of it. If this guy is winning and he seems pretty confident, i may have a ton to learn from him sense he thinks so differently than i do.
Please, no leveling. This dude is full of it, NO?
THOUGHTS PLEASE???

hardly a new play. and yeh there's definitely some merit to it in certain spots. you didn't mention, as well, that a lot of the time when you're jammed on it's by some sort of draw (because, like you said, made hands will often bluff catch instead and oop calling with most draws with no showdown value is bad), so you can bloat a pot with the best hand rather than call and face a tough decision later, whether he gets there or not.

super standard vs most players with a brain/that spew.

this, however, seems like full-blown retardation.

It's a standard move, which has been used for years. It is used a lot in limit poker. I remember Daniel N talking about it 7 or 8 years ago to describe a hand he played in a limit tournament while HU against Erick Lindgren. It's about as revolutionary as the continuation bet.

--------------------------------------

"But this instructor was up a buy in and a half between 4 tables in about 20 minutes so maybe its me??"

It is "also you" judging by the fact that you think this has any relevance at all, seeing as it's a 200BB/100 winrate over a sample of ~70 hands.

-------------------------------------------

Last hand is stupid of course.

hand 3 =

hahah epic

On ballance, then, maybe this guy has something to teach me. If nothing else, maybe i am too nitty preflop. I would need a pretty solid read on an opponent before i called 4bet shove with Tens.
I thought the "new move" was an awful lot like a blocker bet. And i think "blocking bets" are antiquated,..no?
I still make a blocking bet once in a while, almost on accident, when i'm multi-tabling mostly and just out of habit.
Generally when i x/c x/c lead river (unsure of my hand and "want to stop the bluff/larger value bet") i am called and have best hand about half the time (doesn't really matter if i bet or x/c) or he raises and i fold (prolly better off not betting) or i bet and he folds and i think "prolly should of x/c'd". So, my thinking is that we used to use these "moves", primarily, to stop bluffs and we should never really want to stop a bluff. Maybe I should re-re-think blocking bets???

I have actually thought about the "new move" of making a "showdown raise" since watching the vid. You guys are right its not new at all. I think its more applicable to limit personally, but i DO use this bet once in a while. I think i learned it from an Annie Duke Vid like ten years ago. Like i have QsJs and LAG raises CO, i call.
Flop comes KcJc8s. He bets, i call
turn is Xs (i picked up BDFD). He bets and I raise with the intention of folding to a bet on riv unless i improve. Idea; it stops him from bluffing us off the best hand, it locks up equity now for the times we make flush and opp wont pay off, it gives us good info on opponents hand strength allowing us to fold on riv or size our bet/raise correctly when we do hit, specifially a J or Q.
So, i do use this bet, i'm just not sure its really optimal. Once you take the "we stop opponent from bluffing/win pot right now if opponent isn't strong" aspect out of the raise (and i think you should) it loses a lot doesnt it?
I use to think in these terms (i came up pre poker boom and learned TAG raise/fold poker in my teens (i'm 34)) but since ive been on two plus two i've been re-thinking a lot of what i thought i knew about poker.
One of the old school concepts i've tried to rid my brain of is trying to "stop opponents from bluffing" Help me out with this guys, if you can. I'm open minded and really trying to learn this game all over again.
But to me, blocking bets and this "show down raise" seem dated.
I guess I'm gonna loosen up a bit vs shoves and add TT to the list against LAGs.
I know that his play with AJ on XcXcXc was rediculous.
But this other stuff, i have really mixed feelings.
Should we use blocking bets/show down raises???
if so when are good times?

Post in the Micro forum, just as you've already been advised, if you want a response to a post like that.

yeah, maybe i shoulda done that with this actually. Just been in the habit of posting here i guess.
but i got some legit answers.
And i really don't trust the advice from micro players.