Originally Posted by SmbSmbSmb
hardly a new play. and yeh there's definitely some merit to it in certain spots. you didn't mention, as well, that a lot of the time when you're jammed on it's by some sort of draw (because, like you said, made hands will often bluff catch instead and oop calling with most draws with no showdown value is bad), so you can bloat a pot with the best hand rather than call and face a tough decision later, whether he gets there or not.
super standard vs most players with a brain/that spew.
this, however, seems like full-blown retardation.
On ballance, then, maybe this guy has something to teach me. If nothing else, maybe i am too nitty preflop. I would need a pretty solid read on an opponent before i called 4bet shove with Tens.
I thought the "new move" was an awful lot like a blocker bet. And i think "blocking bets" are antiquated,..no?
I still make a blocking bet once in a while, almost on accident, when i'm multi-tabling mostly and just out of habit.
Generally when i x/c x/c lead river (unsure of my hand and "want to stop the bluff/larger value bet") i am called and have best hand about half the time (doesn't really matter if i bet or x/c) or he raises and i fold (prolly better off not betting) or i bet and he folds and i think "prolly should of x/c'd". So, my thinking is that we used to use these "moves", primarily, to stop bluffs and we should never really want to stop a bluff. Maybe I should re-re-think blocking bets???
I have actually thought about the "new move" of making a "showdown raise" since watching the vid. You guys are right its not new at all. I think its more applicable to limit personally, but i DO use this bet once in a while. I think i learned it from an Annie Duke Vid like ten years ago. Like i have QsJs and LAG raises CO, i call.
Flop comes KcJc8s. He bets, i call
turn is Xs (i picked up BDFD). He bets and I raise with the intention of folding to a bet on riv unless i improve. Idea; it stops him from bluffing us off the best hand, it locks up equity now for the times we make flush and opp wont pay off, it gives us good info on opponents hand strength allowing us to fold on riv or size our bet/raise correctly when we do hit, specifially a J or Q.
So, i do use this bet, i'm just not sure its really optimal. Once you take the "we stop opponent from bluffing/win pot right now if opponent isn't strong" aspect out of the raise (and i think you should) it loses a lot doesnt it?
I use to think in these terms (i came up pre poker boom and learned TAG raise/fold poker in my teens (i'm 34)) but since ive been on two plus two i've been re-thinking a lot of what i thought i knew about poker.
One of the old school concepts i've tried to rid my brain of is trying to "stop opponents from bluffing" Help me out with this guys, if you can. I'm open minded and really trying to learn this game all over again.
But to me, blocking bets and this "show down raise" seem dated.
I guess I'm gonna loosen up a bit vs shoves and add TT to the list against LAGs.
I know that his play with AJ on XcXcXc was rediculous.
But this other stuff, i have really mixed feelings.
Should we use blocking bets/show down raises???
if so when are good times?