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Strong 2nd Pair on flop OOP vs typical FR grinders Strong 2nd Pair on flop OOP vs typical FR grinders

06-21-2011 , 03:23 AM
Hi, what are your views on how to play these spots?

You raise pre with TT-KK from EP-MP;tight reg on LP calls and you get a flop with one overcard and two other uncoordinated low cards.

Cbetting here makes the hand easy to play, but it also kind of turns it into a bluff vs a tight continuing range.

When you check, bluffcatching becomes a dangerous game vs tight ranges.

Do you balance your flop checking range by adding stronger hands to it in order to punish players who would like to take the pot away from you without a legimate hand so you can safely check fold your more marginal holdings that still have showdown value when your opponent is unlikely to draw out when you are still ahead?

Or do you simply not worry about it at all because it is an uphill battle relative to your hand strenght and position? Surely playing a big pot here can't be a good idea.

Am I overthinking things?

Thanks in advance.
Strong 2nd Pair on flop OOP vs typical FR grinders Quote
06-21-2011 , 03:42 AM
probably c/r JJ on a Qxx board and let him spew off with his low equity hands.

in all seriousness though, balance by sometimes c/c with tptk and tpgk type hands as well as sometimes your medium strength hands. if the guy has a very tight floating range on the flop then your prob best off checking to him with pretty much all your made and medium strength hands, and cbetting the piss out of him with all your air. against people that float a decent bit, i will take lines where i go ahead and bet a Qxx flop with my TT and JJ knowing they are floating me, and then i will c/c a lot of turns because people turn all sorts of hands into bluffs in that spot. they turn hands like smaller pairs into bluffs wayyyyyyyy too frequently. then the river is a c/c or c/f depending on villain and history etc.
Strong 2nd Pair on flop OOP vs typical FR grinders Quote
06-21-2011 , 04:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by **********
... sometimes your medium strength hands.
This is the part I'm having trouble with. I feel like i'm making very big mistakes by c/c-ing down. Obviously everybody plays differently, but their bluffing frequencies in general can't be that high. C/C flop; C/F turn seems worse than just getting out right away. When they bomb the pot I see it as they want me to fold, and when they bet smaller it looks like a cheap bluff. Basically I'm getting owned left and right and get shown big hands more often than not. I open myself up to leveling myself and it makes playing a complete nightmare. I understand that the answer to every question is always "it depends", but are there any hard and fast rules/mental shortcuts in close spots for somebody who plays like 24 tables? What I'm trying to accomplish is basically sacrificing small theoretical EV in order to avoid potential disasters if I don't perform as well as planned.

Last edited by Kloonike; 06-21-2011 at 04:18 AM.
Strong 2nd Pair on flop OOP vs typical FR grinders Quote
08-23-2016 , 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by **********
probably c/r JJ on a Qxx board and let him spew off with his low equity hands.

in all seriousness though, balance by sometimes c/c with tptk and tpgk type hands as well as sometimes your medium strength hands. if the guy has a very tight floating range on the flop then your prob best off checking to him with pretty much all your made and medium strength hands, and cbetting the piss out of him with all your air. against people that float a decent bit, i will take lines where i go ahead and bet a Qxx flop with my TT and JJ knowing they are floating me, and then i will c/c a lot of turns because people turn all sorts of hands into bluffs in that spot. they turn hands like smaller pairs into bluffs wayyyyyyyy too frequently. then the river is a c/c or c/f depending on villain and history etc.
Wow, this guy is banned? I'm here reading his advice 5 years later and it's actually pretty spot on afaik. See you at the tables
Strong 2nd Pair on flop OOP vs typical FR grinders Quote
08-30-2016 , 11:38 PM
I'm all for check-calling flops on those type of hands. Turn may be a call as well. River will usually be a fold, but sometimes not. Just think about your opponent putting you on a hand and whether they think they can bluff you off it or not.
Strong 2nd Pair on flop OOP vs typical FR grinders Quote

      
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