https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bs-NxPx-88 -Link to Daniel Negreanu discussing small ball approach in cash games.

I usually play small ball in tournaments, though I decided to gave it a run at a local cash game (2-3 spread with 300max bet). I decided to play suited connectors (65s+), one gappers (75s+), and middle pocket pairs for a small raise in unraised pots (from middle and late position). At first I used the standard small ball raise of 2.5x. The result was that I was playing pots with several callers with often at least one player to act behind me. I decided to increase my initial raise to 3x, and then 3.5x which did not alter the situation much. Most of the time I did not hit the flop hard enough to make a C-bet in a multi-way pot, specially with several players involved. If hit the flop well, I would c-bet (1/2 to 2/3 pot) only to have the pot taken away from me on latter streets. It does not seem that small ball works in these type of games. I was not able to push people off pots, was not often the last to act, or hit my draws enough to cover my loss from my preflop raises and C-bets.

In live low stakes cash games (1-2 and 2-3) my experience has been that $15-20 is usually the required amount to play a pot heads up or no more than 3 people. That price seems surely too high for open raising suited gappers (maybe with the exclusion of suited gapped broadway in late position), and likely too high for suited connectors (once again excluding suited connecting broadway in late position).

Taking the above into consideration. I believe the only reasonable plays are open raising suited connects (75s+), and QTs, and KJs from late position for 7x+1 (roughly $15) in the attempt of playing the pot heads up in position. Even then, I find this debatable.

whats the question bud?

big balls or go home

Small ball only works in mtts IMO.

5x minimum raise if u want 3 handed action. 8x for HU vs table fish.

It seems like you only want to play heads-up pots in position. Why?

Surely you just stick to the normal online raise sizes when playing live? This is what I did when I played in Vegas. I just accepted that I would get a tonne of callers from fishy players whom I could outplay post-flop. This wasn't a problem for me, in fact I relish the thought of it.

If you were playing at a very rare online table with 5 fish and 3 regs, would you be raising to 5x or just playing your normal online game?

I've always thought that live and online are identical with the exception of how you get your reads; online from HUD-based stats and notes, and in the casino from live tells and mental notes.

Concepts such as open raise sizes, 3-bet sizes, auto-rebuying etc. should all remain the same across both games because these concepts have little to do with reads and are more to do with the betting structure and rules of the games, which mostly correlate, (no antes, SB = 0.5 x BB, 9 or 10 players seated, no-limit bet sizes, typically most players are 100+bb's deep except fish etc.)

There is higher rake in the live games but this is compensated by a higher proportion of fish compared to online.

So basically mathematically online and live are fairly similar in terms of the structure and format of the games, so surely therefore the underlying maths of your pre-flop sizing should also be the same and holds up for the same reasons?

I could be completely wrong, but that is just my understanding of things.

you open 2.5x at a typical lowstakes live game, itd basically be a bloated limped pot, noone folds pre to small raises, so you might as well just limp and outplay your opponents that way.

They call a 2.5x raise with ATC? They are making a big mistake for sure.

We want to keep the fish in the pot (with their trash), not drive them out of it.

5x for three way and 8x for heads up actions seems about right. In regards to bet sizing, there is no comparison live vs. online. It has been my experience that raising 3x with big hands such as AA is asking for trouble. One or two people call, which just begins a cascade of callers, and all of a sudden you a playing the hand against 4 or 5 opponents.

Specifically, the strategy of small ball is to play heads up pots in position for a small raise. Most of the time you won't have a premium hand, so more marginal hands are great (such as suited connectors). With the inability to play in position or for a small raise the approach loses value.

I usually play a tag approach. I rarely limp and raise a large amount with a tight range. More often than not I double barrel unless the turn reveals a scary car or I get too much resistance. Eventually people stop playing against me. From late position I open raise for 7-8x TT+ and AQ+. The leak in my game is that my tight range makes my too transparent, I do not often pick up a lot of blinds or dead money from limpers, and if some one slowplays a hand better than TPTK or over pair, the are picking to large post flop bets from me. I am considering open raising suited connectors 76s+ for 7x-8x from the cut off and button to pick up blinds, dead money, and add more deception to my game. What are your guys thoughts?

Pokey! haha

Haha, I like! :-D

Fish, Piranhas, I don't really care; I'll take all their monies!!

ah true, good troll. legit just thought u hadnt played live before.

No, I really did raise small with my small ball.

I will switch things up though and start upping my game - I'm going to play some big ball poker.

cool bro gl

Thanks man.

I disagree with the small ball strategy at live games. You are worried about achieving any +EV spot and maximizing your value there, regardless of how thin it is.