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Problem with fold to 3bet Problem with fold to 3bet

02-10-2015 , 12:58 PM
So, I'm sure I have noticed a leak in my game. The leak is that I have fold to 3bet % as high as 84% and after making some research most of the guidelines say that it should be around ~70%. ATM I'm totally clueless on how to tackle this. I mean like I feel that starting to call 3bets OOP with hands like AJs,AQo vs tightish players is going to get me in a lot of trouble in the longrun I guess that calling 3bets IP (for example calling resteal IP wider) could lower it a little bit. And how about 4betting should this be increased? Obviously adjusting to different players with different actions is the key,but...

Some help would be appreciated here guys.
02-10-2015 , 02:54 PM
What's your VPIP/PFR?
02-10-2015 , 05:49 PM
depends on everything u haven't mentioned, stakes, villians, ranges, positions, sizes ect.
but if u are folding 70% u are folding a hugely exploitable amount

gl

Spoiler:
02-10-2015 , 05:50 PM
depends on everything u haven't mentioned, stakes, villians, ranges, positions, sizes ect.
but if u are folding 70% u are folding a hugely exploitable amount

gl

Spoiler:
02-10-2015 , 06:20 PM
I know that my question is really wide in general but like I said I have no good idea on how to start or where to start to making the changes in my game. ATM I'm playing NL50 and NL100 FR. My VPIP is 15,8% and PFR 12,6%. I mean I feel like that starting to 4bet more or flatting more against average reg in the games I play is getting me a lot of sticky situations postflop. Obv vs donks I flat or 4bet more depending on the donk. I'm talking about the overall fold to 3 bet stat without any filters. And I'm playing 100bb deep always.
02-10-2015 , 06:41 PM
Look at the combos of hands that you open in a particular spot, and then look at how many combos you continue with when facing a 3-bet, both in and out of position.

Then calculate your percentage and see how close you are to 65%. This is a decent percentage to aim for, but there are a lot of regulars that fold to only 50% or so of 3-bets so you can defend more if need be!
02-10-2015 , 07:16 PM
Okay, I'm going to break down my fold to 3bet for each position and put my thoughts on them and hopefully get some feedback and help.

SB: 95,45%
BB: 100%
UTG: 50%
UTG+1: 43,75%
MP: 57,69%
MP+1: 70,37%
MP+2: 79,41%
CO: 89,74%
BTN: 84,21%

My thought on the above stats is that UTG-MP seems alright to my eye since obv opening more tighter and therefore less folding to 3bet. I see that my clear leak is in the MP+1 - BTN. I'm clearly playing way too tight especially on BTN and CO. MP+1 and MP+2 too are most likely a leak (since over 70%) here too like Tonna said. What these %'s should look like? And once again I do understand that this is a clear leak but the tools are still missing.
Going to look in to that tomorrow Doofus.
02-10-2015 , 07:35 PM
Firstly make sure that you are looking at the stat ''Fold to pre-flop 3-bet after open raising'' or words to those effect. Some of those numbers look way too high, almost like you are including folding your trash hands after someone else has opened and then got 3-bet by another player and you are yet to act.

If these stats are correct, then it is clear to me that people are abusing you from the button when you are in the CO. They have noticed that you fold too often after attempting to steal the blinds, so they are 3-betting you with impunity. Firstly you can open a bit tighter to start with and secondly more importantly you should be 4-betting and calling the 3-bet a lot wider.
02-11-2015 , 01:16 AM
Have to agree wit pokie, bu + co values are pretty much impossible to achieve given ur general stats which indicate u at least should have a v basic understanding of nl holdem. Assuming u have a somewhat wide co open range of 30% it would mean u fold everything besides JJ+ and AK to 3bets which cannot be true imo
02-11-2015 , 08:17 AM
You guys make look like a total idiot The stat I was looking earlier indeed was "pure" fold to 3bet and therefore the % on many positions is really high. I just found the correct stat which is Fold to PF 3bet after raise in PT4 which Im using.
So here are the stats for fold to PF 3bet after raise:

Button: 60,71%
CO: 63,22%
MP+2: 66,67%
MP+1: 61,11%
MP: 56,52%
UTG+1: 42,86%
UTG: 50,12%
BB: obv no % here
SB: 62,5%

For my donkey eyes these % look ok. Maybe BTN and CO could be a little bit lower? Oh and I hope now I have the correct stat. I made it sure by looking from PT4 website Any feedback is appreciated
02-11-2015 , 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleh00
You guys make look like a total idiot The stat I was looking earlier indeed was "pure" fold to 3bet and therefore the % on many positions is really high. I just found the correct stat which is Fold to PF 3bet after raise in PT4 which Im using.
So here are the stats for fold to PF 3bet after raise:

Button: 60,71%
CO: 63,22%
MP+2: 66,67%
MP+1: 61,11%
MP: 56,52%
UTG+1: 42,86%
UTG: 50,12%
BB: obv no % here
SB: 62,5%

For my donkey eyes these % look ok. Maybe BTN and CO could be a little bit lower? Oh and I hope now I have the correct stat. I made it sure by looking from PT4 website Any feedback is appreciated
These stats seem perfectly fine so there isn't really an issue here with your fold to 3-bet.

Presumably you are losing cash, hence why you are looking for leaks and thought that this could be one of them. I would suggest trying to find the other reasons why you are not winning, and then once you have come up with some ideas, then post back here with what you think and I will try and help you a bit more. Perhaps start by looking at some of the hands where you have lost a big pot and could have got away from your hand?
02-11-2015 , 08:33 AM
Much appreciated Doofus Well, this is going to sound silly. I have been doing pretty well recently and feeling good about my game but my non sd winnings are plummeting at rate of 7,66bb/100 at the moment. I know that this isnt necessarily due to a leak but I cant help thinking that I leak $$$ some where. So because of the non sd I in the first place started to look into the fold to 3bet stat.
02-11-2015 , 08:38 AM
And this isnt the first time I get bothered about non sd winnigs. It has been always a problem for me to keep non sd in control. Winrate wise I have been doing pretty good as Im atm having winrate of 8,21bb/100 but my sample size is too small to make any assumptions about my real long term winrate.
02-11-2015 , 12:47 PM
how big is your sample size?
02-11-2015 , 03:32 PM
Oliwood, my sample size is just over 38k hands, so really small.
02-12-2015 , 12:52 AM
Stats look fine now
02-12-2015 , 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleh00
Oliwood, my sample size is just over 38k hands, so really small.
small but okay. I thought maybe we are talking about 5.000 hands

by the way, can you post your graph for non show down winnings? Because mine actually looks very good, in oppsite to my showdown winnings...

Last edited by oliwood; 02-12-2015 at 05:09 AM.

      
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