Hi guys

so we've decided to collect the oppinions of regulars that play in the games, as some of us believe that 6m and especially HS 6m has a totally different dynamic with the issue of tablestarting and waitlist and scripts, so we want to address that.
PLEASE DO NOT POST ANY CLUTTER (I will ask mods to delete that) and stick to the form, that I post below:
no more than 1 post/person! If you don't agree with someone else's oppinion this is not the thread to clutter, go fight it out in the regs thread

-screenname/2p2:
-stakes:
-hands/month:
-number of tables played:
-oppinion if starting games needs changing:

EDIT*
HS players, 6m players, HU players that come any play 10% of their volume at FR, players from other networks - please refrain from commenting as you might not have a truly clear view on the state of the SSFR MSFR games. Can post your thoughts in the discussion threads.

also hands/month should only show NLFR tables, as that's the topic of this response thread

ALL THE INFO in this thread will be sent to pokerstars for review and will be public

-screenname/2p2: bigacsiga/bigacsiga
-stakes: NL100EUR/NL200/NL400/NL600 w the occasional 1k-2k
-hands/month: 80-100k
-number of tables played: up to 24
-oppinion if starting games needs changing: most of my tables that I play during a session come not from tables spawning, but from waitlists I would say around 75%. this means that anyone can still comfortably get on enough tables to grind it out and get in decent volume. scripts are not that big of an issue as they are at 6max, where you can not get on a table without one. I rather not have the way they are ran changed.

Grimming needs to be addressed tho, as it is a common and malicious issue that is being ignored and should be easy to police and fix, just by turning on ask to post blinds in the lobby as default. After that if someone grimms its obviously with bad manners and intentions (cant hide behind the regular bullcrap of "table was closing, had sitout BB clicked)

-screenname/2p2: you-mad-br0/ PlasticElephant
-stakes: 200nl, some 100nl, tiny bit of 400nl
-hands/month: 30kish
-number of tables played: 12
-oppinion if starting games needs changing: No, think it's absolutely fine as it is. I do select which times I play to ensure they're peak hours, but I can always easily get 12 tables up within 20mins, just requires a tiny bit of effort in joining waitlists/ playing some 3handed+. At 400 it's a bit harder but that's simply because not many people play 400nl really in comparison to the other stakes, and also I do not play in some 3 handed line ups there when it's a bit tougher.

-screenname/2p2: MeleaB
-stakes: 100nl, some 200nl
-hands/month: 200k+ish
-number of tables played: 24
-oppinion if starting games needs changing: I am quite happy with the state of games at 200NL and below.

-screenname/2p2: Pontylad
-stakes: 400-1k
-hands/month: 20-30k
-number of tables played: 6-12
-opinion if starting games needs changing Yes, However i feel the biggest problem is in fact camping and grimming. I would also like to see a change to the scripting issue (not so much that i miss tables, but i end up at the bottom of waitlists too) That being said, it really would depend on the change as to whether i could support it. Things aren't too bad at the moment and there's definitely a possibility that any new change makes things needlessly worse.

-screenname/2p2: TonnaMunz / TonnaMunz
-stakes: 400-1k SH and FR
-hands/month: 100k+
-number of tables played: 10-15
-opinion if starting games needs changing:
Possibly
The games at full ring and at 200 and below FR and SH are fine (for the most part) 400+ SH games are where scripting is becoming out of hand. I am currently reluctantly paying for and using a script. Even with this extra unnecessary software that has nothing to do with poker, it is still extremely difficult for me to get into a game to play. Most of the games I will get into come from me playing 3 handed with other regulars or sitting alone at the table myself.

It is getting out of hand, but at the same time the current system is still fully functional. I think there is an awesome solution out there that will reduce the effectiveness of scripts and keep the very important element of poker which is at risk (game selection). But the problem is it is very difficult to think ahead as to all the small problems and variables that will come up with making such a big change. I think stars are on the right track forming a team with a variety of players that are knowledgeable on the subject working towards a solution. But i think there needs to be huge amounts of testing, planing and thinking before we replace a current working system with something very different.

-screenname/2p2: ILUVTHRILL
-stakes: 200-1knl
-hands/month: 30-40k
-number of tables played:4-9
-oppinion if starting games needs changing: yes, definitely!
biggest problem is the grimming and that i dont think anything happens about it (i`ve reported numerous times and always got the same prepaired reply). imo if a player gets reported for grimming twice, he should have to pay back around 10bb or get a 24 hour ban or whatever so this would solve it.
next problem is table camping.not sure how to fix it, but i think by removing scripts, this problem would be solved with it mostly...
seating scripts should get removed imo just because of the fact that it looks ridiculous to every fun player and its the most obvious way to show those players that the games are running because of and around them.
also for me its impossible to jump into a 6 max game at msnl if i dont battle some regs hu/3/4 handed before.
also guys who join table starters, see the table is full of regs or they have a bad seat. they play a round without paying the blinds. needs to be changed

screenname/2p2: TimStone
-stakes: 100-600fr
-hands/month: 200k+
-number of tables played: 24
-oppinion if starting games needs changing: never change a running system. I script but as biga mentioned over 50% of my seats and majority of direct jesus seats coming from waitinglists. Its completely fine how seats get distributed at 100 and 200 while anything higher runs very infrequently anyways. What i realized though is that camping gets moar and moar common lately and this needs to be adressed asap

-screenname/2p2: cb4mvp
-stakes: 100-200 FR
-hands/month: 80-120k
-number of tables played: 16-24
-oppinion if starting games needs changing: i don't want to see any changes at small stakes FR

-screenname/2p2: hurtNCYDE
-stakes: 100 and 200fr
-hands/month: 100k-200k
-number of tables played: 12-20
-oppinion if starting games needs changing: No change needed at these stakes regarding waitlists. Would like to see seating scripts outlawed but it's definitely not absolutely necessary.

-screenname/2p2: PokerRon247
-stakes: 400nl-1knl fr/6m/bit of hu
-hands/month: 40-80k
-number of tables played: 4-8
-oppinion if starting games needs changing: Most of my volume comes from starting tables. At 6m this is generally ok because there are a number of regs that are willing to play HU and 3-handed. At fr it's a disaster because there are a small handful of regs willing to play HU and virtually none that play 3h. Most of my attempts to start fr tables end up just being long HU matches with the same regs every day. The rest of my volume comes from waitlists. This works ok for me because of the low number of tables I play, but I can't really say that it's a working system when the table just instantly fills and the waitlist is 12-long within a couple of seconds of the fish sitting.

Personally I'd like to see an end to scripts as it's the speed at which these things work that would scare the fish imo, but I do understand how difficult it would be to police, and even to define what a script is. In short - it works ok for me me atm. I'd prefer more incentive for ppl to start tables, and the speed and widespread use of scripts cannot be good for the future, but I don't know how to solve it and I wouldn't want some convoluted solution that would confuse fish.

-screenname/2p2: tobe4funas
-stakes: 100-400 6m, ocasional 400 fr
-hands/month: 25k
-number of tables played: 6-10
-oppinion if starting games needs changing: I'm fine with just about everything except having 2 players camp a table where I'm sitting in and willing to play just about everything. This was way more frequent at fullring.

-screenname/2p2: jrockhaf
-stakes: 100-FR
-hands/month: 80-100k
-number of tables played: 12
-oppinion if starting games needs changing: i don't want to see any changes at small stakes FR

-screenname/2p2: d7o1d1s0
-stakes: 1k-5k 6m/FR/HU
-hands/month: 40k
-number of tables played: 6-8
-opinion if starting games needs changing: absolutely. it actually disgusts me how much action the top bumhunters get at HSNL without ever playing a hand without a fish. I'm all for being smart about game selection, but when a top script is all you need to play the highest stakes online I think there's something fundamentally wrong. I'm very glad pokerstars is taking serious action against this.

Keep posts on topic, Discussion thread can be found here...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/96...hread-1510474/

-screenname/2p2: mmd
-stakes: 100 - 400 and shot taking higher sometimes - FR only
-hands/month: 20-40k
-number of tables played: 10
-opinion if starting games needs changing: yes. I'd love to play exclusively at stars. Stars makes it easy to grind but whilst scripts are allowed to have such an effect on the games and I'm forced to make -EV decisions because I refuse to buy one then that is not good and it's why I play elsewhere too. I've seen fish complain in chat about the same reg sitting immediately to their left and in todays games where fish are becoming rarer we need to be doing all we can to protect them from this crap. Not to mention the amount of money leaving the poker economy to the makers of these scripts. There are just way too many negatives and NOT ONE SINGLE POSITIVE to keeping scripts and keeping things the way they are. I've played 95% of my poker over the years at Full Tilt and the global waitlist there is genius and the best system of it's kind in online poker. That would work great at Stars and solve most of these problems. Stars has left it to the players to self police but unfortunately the shortsighted greedy actions of some have made this a total cluster**** and it's time for Pokerstars to step in.

I should also add that table camping when two regs are playing heads up needs fixed and I like the new solution that's been proposed for that. Also should limit the amount of tables that one person can sit alone at. I don't see why there should be any more than two tables available for sitting heads up in the first place. If you want to start a table then play one of the guys who are already sitting waiting to start a table instead of opening your own.

Perhaps you could merge my post ponty ^

-screenname/2p2: Twackle
-stakes: 400nl-1000nl 6max
-hands/month: depends i hope 40k
-number of tables played: without zoom 18, with zoom 8
-oppinion if starting games needs changing: definitely needs changing. at 400nl 6m and above its just gotten impossible to get a good seat if you dont have a lightnight fast script. and people are getting done with starting tables just so the same scripters/bumhunters can take the godseat each time. definitely unfair, the least power scripts have the better