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Old 01-01-2012, 08:28 PM   #101
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

who will hate me and never talk to me again if i think about playing tonight?
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:41 PM   #102
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_smith77 View Post
who will hate me and never talk to me again if i think about playing tonight?
i will most certainly hate you if you start playing against me ever again.

just started playing myself. every table is full of regs (and fish)
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:42 PM   #103
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

i actually thought the mass sit out was ment to be like 1 hour or so
we cant sit out untill stars grants our wishes
i misunderstood the whole thing and now i look like an ******* after the things ive said but im playing again, and do not hate anyone who goes along

Last edited by Slugant; 01-01-2012 at 08:43 PM. Reason: but yea dsmith you may sit out any time u want
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:45 PM   #104
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

i also received 4% more vpps than in 2011 over a ~3,6k sample, so it might not be that terrible
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:49 PM   #105
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugant View Post
i also received 4% more vpps than in 2011 over a ~3,6k sample, so it might not be that terrible
not sure, but I think the mainreason for this is that the tables were quite soft today
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:56 PM   #106
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugant View Post
i also received 4% more vpps than in 2011 over a ~3,6k sample, so it might not be that terrible
i think the amount of fish compromises the sample. same as with the happy hours over the next days.

it will probably take a long time until we find out accurate longterm-data.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:58 PM   #107
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

that is true,
but i think the high amount of fish will stay because they really like the new weighted contribution rakeback system
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:06 PM   #108
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugant View Post
that is true,
but i think the high amount of fish will stay because they really like the new weighted contribution rakeback system
lol, 90% of the fish don't even remotely understand what weighted contribution means. my dad played NL10 for 2 years and didnt have the slightest idea how much rake he was paying.

even i had to do some reading in december because i didnt know how WTA/dealt/WC worked.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:07 PM   #109
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Maybe some tables didn't break and are still using dealt?
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:18 PM   #110
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

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Originally Posted by e306 View Post
lol, 90% of the fish don't even remotely understand what weighted contribution means. my dad played NL10 for 2 years and didnt have the slightest idea how much rake he was paying.

even i had to do some reading in december because i didnt know how WTA/dealt/WC worked.
level over level?
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:20 PM   #111
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

anyone got any idea how long it's gonna be before i can play more than 1 table again?
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:28 PM   #112
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

2013
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:30 PM   #113
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

hey there. just me being dumb

Last edited by chillskill; 01-01-2012 at 09:41 PM. Reason: cause im an idiot
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:34 PM   #114
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Hey there, just me being dumb.....

Last edited by King Spew; 01-01-2012 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:35 PM   #115
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

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Originally Posted by chillskill View Post
So.....................
Chill i like you, but this is one seriously dumb post.

Last edited by King Spew; 01-01-2012 at 09:50 PM. Reason: dumb is dumb
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:35 PM   #116
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillskill View Post
...
oh crap.. please don't win it. if you do, we will need the fourth 2012 regulars thread - this time, started by you.

Last edited by e306; 01-01-2012 at 09:37 PM. Reason: removed quote, in case you want to delete your posting
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:39 PM   #117
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

lol plz delete post
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:39 PM   #118
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by pontylad
Chill i like you, but this is one seriously dumb post.
=S is it like agaisnt rules or something bad gonna happen? Im gonna remove it anyways thx, didnt think it would be so serious. can u edit urs too ponty ?

and Im sry =S


Quote:
Originally Posted by e306
oh crap.. please don't win it. if you do, we will need the fourth 2012 regulars thread - this time, started by you.
=( I'd have to win this 10 times to be worthy of that honor ^^



Poker Stars $200+$15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t4000/t8000 Blinds + t800 - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP2: t96524 M = 5.03
CO: t167601 M = 8.73
BTN: t180896 M = 9.42
Hero (SB): t273986 M = 14.27
BB: t294470 M = 15.34
UTG: t224116 M = 11.67
UTG+1: t160154 M = 8.34
UTG+2: t248963 M = 12.97
MP1: t253118 M = 13.18

Pre Flop: (t19200) Hero is SB with Q Q
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t16000, 2 folds, MP2 raises to t95724 all in, CO raises to t166801 all in, BTN raises to t180096 all in, 3 folds

Flop: (t464526) 3 4 2 (3 players - 3 are all in)

Turn: (t464526) T (3 players - 3 are all in)

River: (t464526) J (3 players - 3 are all in)

Final Pot: t464526
MP2 shows A K (high card Ace)
CO shows 9 9 (a pair of Nines)
BTN shows Q Q (a pair of Queens)
BTN wins t142154
BTN wins t322372
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:43 PM   #119
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

ponty, please remove your quote.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:45 PM   #120
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfection View Post
FYP

The $20 stays in the pots that were won/lost and doesnt just disappear in to the ether
There is no $20, you muppet. Stick that penis pump up my arsehole and keep it there until your maths get better.

Last edited by King Spew; 01-01-2012 at 09:52 PM. Reason: truth hurts
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:46 PM   #121
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillskill View Post
hey there. just me being dumb
lol, wp kingspew
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:47 PM   #122
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinivici9586 View Post
lol, wp kingspew
nono it was myself ^^
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:48 PM   #123
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by e306 View Post
i think the amount of fish compromises the sample. same as with the happy hours over the next days.

it will probably take a long time until we find out accurate longterm-data.
Just compare HEM stat "New Stars VPPs" with actual data from the Stars client, for an immediate and accurate answer.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:58 PM   #124
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROM Amnesty View Post
Just compare HEM stat "New Stars VPPs" with actual data from the Stars client, for an immediate and accurate answer.
my point was that the vpp rates will be lower when all the holiday fish are gone and the happy hours are over.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:15 PM   #125
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

games arent that good. you guys arent missing much
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:34 PM   #126
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by e306 View Post
my point was that the vpp rates will be lower when all the holiday fish are gone and the happy hours are over.
Yes, but the ratio between HEM "New Stars VPP" stat and actual VPPs will most likely remain constant.

In other words, if the table are good now, both HEM and actual VPPs will be inflated by the same percentage so you can still compare them right now.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:35 PM   #127
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROM Amnesty View Post
There is no $20, you muppet. Stick that penis pump up my arsehole and keep it there until your maths get better.
lol.

Actual, stick it up King Spew's arsehole instead.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:36 PM   #128
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

true. didnt think of that.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:51 PM   #129
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_smith77 View Post
games arent that good. you guys arent missing much
had my best day this year so far...
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:57 PM   #130
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

shut up

Last edited by d_smith77; 01-01-2012 at 10:58 PM. Reason: my worst so far
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:07 PM   #131
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

30/112 in the tournament =O
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:16 PM   #132
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

-20% over 1300 hands mainly fullring
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:29 PM   #133
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

ROM, at the risk of looking foolish, I'm going to disagree with you. Lower rake is much better than increased VPP's/hand.

First b/c I think you're failing to account for increased winrate in your example, but also b/c lower rake is better for other reasons.


The simple stuff:

-Lower rake results in a lower loss rate for a fish. This isnt given back to them in fpps, this is cash in thier accounts which can turn into positive variance that will make them think they are winners and keep depositng. A pokerstars hoodie does not provide this opportunity.

Play with EV++ a bit, even a small decrease in loss rate impacts the chances of positive variance siginificantly.


My Math:


You play 1000 hands of 200NL.

In those hands you pay $100 in rake (MGR) and win $100.
You recieve 80% rakeback.

100+100(.80)= $180 total profit.

Now reduce rake 20%. You will still play the same pots, but will keep a larger % of your winnings.

Table profits are now $120 Rake is $80.

You still recieve 80% rakeback.

Total profit is now $184 (120+80(.80)).


The only issue I see is that SNE would then be a larger commitment in terms of # of hands. Which I think given the expected increase is $/h is less of an issue than its being made out to be. (ie: SNE will take longer, but you will have a greater hourly while grinding to get there)


Lets look at it as a more extreme example to clarify. If stars kept the same VPP rates, but said rake was now capped at 10c, at all cash tables, would that too be a net loss?

You guys need to be pushing for a rake decrease, NOT higher VPP rates.
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:45 PM   #134
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejuggernaut View Post
ROM, at the risk of looking foolish, I'm going to disagree with you. Lower rake is much better than increased VPP's/hand.

First b/c I think you're failing to account for increased winrate in your example, but also b/c lower rake is better for other reasons.


The simple stuff:

-Lower rake results in a lower loss rate for a fish. This isnt given back to them in fpps, this is cash in thier accounts which can turn into positive variance that will make them think they are winners and keep depositng. A pokerstars hoodie does not provide this opportunity.

Play with EV++ a bit, even a small decrease in loss rate impacts the chances of positive variance siginificantly.


My Math:


You play 1000 hands of 200NL.

In those hands you pay $100 in rake (MGR) and win $100.
You recieve 80% rakeback.

100+100(.80)= $180 total profit.

Now reduce rake 20%. You will still play the same pots, but will keep a larger % of your winnings.

Table profits are now $120 Rake is $80.

You still recieve 80% rakeback.

Total profit is now $184 (120+80(.80)).


The only issue I see is that SNE would then be a larger commitment in terms of # of hands. Which I think given the expected increase is $/h is less of an issue than its being made out to be. (ie: SNE will take longer, but you will have a greater hourly while grinding to get there)


Lets look at it as a more extreme example to clarify. If stars kept the same VPP rates, but said rake was now capped at 10c, at all cash tables, would that too be a net loss?

You guys need to be pushing for a rake decrease, NOT higher VPP rates.
Your post is similar to one that I just responded to on another thread so forgive me for just re-quoting that conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lun@tic View Post
You are little confused, and example u make is not proper.
We are (I hope so) not about getting pump, we are about our income.
Simple math: U play X hand (does not matter how much) and win $1000 before rake taken. Lets say you pays $800 rake to the room (under 5% system) (exact number not matters too). If u get 60% RB it will be $480 back. Lets sum income: $1000 - $800 + $480 = $680

Moving on. Imagine rake is 4.5%. U pay from net winnings only ($800*4.5/5)=$720. 60% RB will be $720*0.6=432. Calculating income: $1000 - $720 + $432 = $712



Not focus only on RB, we are playng to win!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROM Amnesty View Post
Yes, of course your example is correct. It is obvious that if the rake is reduced and nothing else changes then that is better for everyone. You don't need a detailed example and an excel picture to prove that.

But that isn't what we're talking about.

We are talking about a solution to compensate for the new WC rake (which on average looks like it reduces VPP value by 20%.) So we are comparing a hypothetical solution which involves reducing the rake by 20% and reducing VPP value by 20% with the old 2011 situation.

So, using your numbers (and factoring in the estimated 20% drop in VPP value for 2012) and comparing with 2011 numbers we get:



A loss of $54.40

---------------------------

So, whereas a reduction in rakeback is still better than a kick in the balls, it is not the best, fairest, or simplest solution.

(Also, and it's been mentioned before, a reduction in rake by x% wouldn't actual save you x% in rake paid unless the cap was reduced by the same percentage. In reality, in the example above where rake is reduced by 10% you wouldn't go from $800 in rake paid to $720, because the cap will have been reached in many of the pots. You would actually pay more than $720.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lun@tic View Post
ROM Amnesty, Yes, you right in both remarks. You talking about players who will receive less VPP, but! Let say group of players who constantly and preferably plays 5/10. Spread of VPP will be different, but overall value of VPP will be the same for that group. Since they all on a same vip level and so on.. This group will receive same amount of rewards.
About rakecap - it harms mid+ stakes alot more then guys on small/micro. It clearly will be way more over $720 on 5/10. But rake reduction to 4.5 actually will help on lower stakes, for that (I belive) this changes is made for.
/sorry for bad english/

Edit: there is no such thing as "drop in VPP value". At least for that group. For the same amount of rake paid some players will get more VPP, some less - thats all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROM Amnesty View Post
Yes, that's right. players at 25NL and below will be the ones that benefit the most.
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:51 PM   #135
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Im not addressing the changes they revoked, my example is a 20% decrease in rake.


Both the cap and the %.

Of course if you simply reduce the % slightly it does nothing at the stakes we play.


Edit: Im saying this is what we should be pushing for over VPP increases. Was assuming thier previously proposed system didnt really matter
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:54 PM   #136
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejuggernaut View Post
Im not adressing the changes they revoked, my example is a 20% decrease in rake.


Both the cap and the %.

Of course if you simply reduce the % slightly it does nothing at the stakes we play.

Edit: Im saying this is what we should be pushing for over VPP increases. Was assuming thier previously proposed system didnt really matter
Yeah, if they chose to reduce the rake% then that would benefit everyone of course. My point is precisely that it is not the best, fairest or simplest solution of compensating for the decrease in VPPs value that most are experiencing.

Edit: I strongly disagree with your edit.
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:56 PM   #137
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

14/58 one time
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:59 PM   #138
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

lol stars support, nice work.

My email:
OK I get that the same number of VPPs/hand will be awarded, but I and
everyone else knows that bronze/silver/gold stars are typically WAY looser
than platinum/supernova/SNEs. So while the same number of VPPs will be
handed out, FAR FAR less FPPs will be awarded. You've basically increased
the rake. WTF kind of customer loyalty is that?

The response:
Thank you for contacting PokerStars.

Because the new method awards VPPs based on how much you individually contribute to raked ring game pots, the impact will be different for all players. Some players will earn more VPPs and some will earn less, but the total number of VPPs PokerStars awards per hand will not change.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us again.


Great work customer rep #34286 or whatever, it was really helpful for you to send me a form letter telling me what I just told you. My confidence in Stars is skyrocketing.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:00 AM   #139
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

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14/58 one time
which tourney and sn?
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:00 AM   #140
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

heya my HM is saying i get more vpps than what stars does i assume this is because of the vpp change? is there a new patch or something to show the right amount as stars atm?
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:01 AM   #141
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Can someone who has grinded today post their 2012 VPP/hand VS 2011 VPP /hand ?
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:03 AM   #142
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macho Man View Post
heya my HM is saying i get more vpps than what stars does i assume this is because of the vpp change? is there a new patch or something to show the right amount as stars atm?
Not sure if I understand your message.

Are you saying:
1) You have received more VPP then what HM is displaying?

2) You have received less VPP then what HM is displaying?
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:04 AM   #143
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillskill View Post
14/58 one time
How much to keep quiet?

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Old 01-02-2012, 12:04 AM   #144
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

blablablabla drunkness

Last edited by chillskill; 01-02-2012 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:07 AM   #145
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

lol idk how you didnt think to do that yourself
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:12 AM   #146
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

^^ Im a trustfull person I dunno, kinda stupid in that sense. anyways I dont know what Im talking about Im drunk and its my birthday (January 2nd) go me. byes ^^
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:13 AM   #147
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by lydia12345 View Post
Not sure if I understand your message.

Are you saying:
1) You have received more VPP then what HM is displaying?

2) You have received less VPP then what HM is displaying?
recieved less than what HM is displaying
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:24 AM   #148
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

earnt vpps on hem = 975.49
Actual earnt on stars = 976.5
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:25 AM   #149
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macho Man View Post
recieved less than what HM is displaying
how much less ?
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:27 AM   #150
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Re: **** Official Pokerstars Regs Thread 2012 ****

1,500 hands.

Hem: 392
Stars: 284

27.5% decrease.
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