people who are amazing at table selection are pretty much the only group which is disadvantaged.

all teh clowns who jesus seat every single table i start will hopefully get screwed over. i hope it completely drains all the regular fr games. no more lol regs with zero etiquette.

plus zoom more fun. i think ill actually get the hud today and see if i can beat bushmans record for highest stack. i saw him wtih 2100 at the 100 zoom tables. has anybody seen a giant stack at 1/2 zoom yet?

It would be very easy for players to cheat by observing where other players had fast-folded on each table if this were introduced.

We were discussing viable methods as to how this could work, and Pokerstars Stars had an idea or two involving a very short "tape delay" for observers. There are several factors to consider though, and it's not as simple as it may appear.

did you talk about how people can already do this with four table entries?

HAHAHA **** you buddy, **** you.

stars should run a promotion tracking the biggest stacks across all levels and give out some kind of small recognition or award for the biggest stack of the week or month or something. fish would LOVE that

Yes, the theoretical possibility was discussed. If it's likely in practice then I'm quite certain Stars are on top of it.

That sounds like a great idea.

been quite a ride...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p46bBaWwn0

What's a lol reg?

In theory, it's a good idea... but it's pretty wide open to cheating. They don't want to create new promotions that are going to encourage things like chip dumping to get a big stack.

If you can come up with a way to not make it exploitable, they'll probably be open to it.

you're prob one. zoom for high stakes is the nuts and would make me instantly move back to a non-usa area.

lol regs = all regs without a PhD and Dr.Eldoradon

thats definitely a concern. i have no idea how to avoid the issue either. perhaps somebody smarter than i can come up with an idea.

seems like it fixes the ratholing concerns some people have though if it could be implemented

People will still rathole... that's one thing I really want to see fixed. Still coming up with a solution for that one that would be acceptable for Stars (they want recreational players to be able to do limited ratholing - buying into an extra table, or a tournament on a limited bankroll), but if anyone has anything to contribute, I'm all ears.

i mean theyll rathole but something like that would give some of them a reason not to as much at least. maybe. idk lol

Well, so would having a winrate >0... I wish it were that simple. I'm serious about coming up with a real ratholing solution though... here's my initial thoughts:

• Leaving a table and buying in for the same game/level counts the same as coming back to the same table - leave a 1/2 game with 300, the next 1/2 table you're coming back to with 300

• Count fast/slow as the same game, but deep/cap/euro are separate

• Allow 1 or 2 ratholes per ratholing timer - this allows the recreational players to leave, buyin somewhere else, and come back

Possible additions:

• Can't buyin for more than table max, or possibly 1.5x table max - could exploit this by leaving a table with 300bbs to sit next to a weaker deep stacked player

• Something that allows for higher stakes players playing heads up matches to keep leaving tables and starting new ones if they don't want to play super deep... 1.5x table max buyin enough to solve this?

• Alternate solution to above - don't allow buyins over table max in first 20 hands of a table

Any comments?

are u guys against 50BB ratholing or against ratholing general

how would zoom be diff to normal ring games in this regard? if 0human and isildur are super good friends and want to chipdump to cover the whale they can do it at regular tables just as well (if not better) as at zoom

Personally, I think that if any kind of ratholing is allowed, it should be explicitly allowed. As in let people take money off the table they're sitting at a limited number of times per hour. Otherwise, it can look shady to recreational players... and that's bad for everyone.

Good question. Right now, chip dumping of any kind is against the rules, and you give a really good example as to why that is. There's probably no way to completely eliminate it in this spot, but higher stakes players are also going to be under a lot more scrutiny. If they got caught doing that, they would lose a looooot of money, and be thought of as scummy in the poker world.

The problem with creating a promotion like that is that it will encourage chip dumping between friends everywhere. Also, I think it's the kind of thing that some players wouldn't think is "wrong", and would do it for the free money.

At this point, I'm sure Stars will legitimately look into any chip dumping concerns people bring to them. Creating a promotion like this will create more chip dumping, and even more suspicion of chip dumping... which is time/money they have to spend on game security that could be redistributed to players if it was a different promotion.

yeah, but especially in zoom no recreational player can know if you took money of or if he is just playing vs. a different entry of you.

i'm not the biggest fan of the possibilty to rathole 50BBs tbh bc i think that is a loophole but atm i'm ratholing 100BBs myself when i get over a certain limit bc i don't want to have superhard decision the whole time. i can see though that some people might not like this but from wat i've seen most 100BB stacks don't rathole...

They can't "know", but many will hear that a friend is doing it, and assume others are too. I still think it's better for everyone if what's allowed is out in the open.

What would you think about being able to rathole while sitting twice an hour? Zoom does seem to require something like this as stacks can get really deep really fast.

tbh i don't mind what they are doing anyways... it's not like i cannot play deep. if they force me to keep my entire stack than so be it... but even this you can exploit that you just start off your session with zoom and you eliminate every table you get deep and start playing ringgames instead and after 2hours you come back...

i would love to see minbuyin increased to 75BB and leave everything else like it is... however that's only my opinion.

what i almost find more dangerous is that you can "rathole" the timebank and slow games down...

the fact that tanking preflop in zoom should logically give you more preflop fold equity seems theoretically terrible for the game if people play optimally with it in mind.

WTF, Stars just stopped working. The network status box says I have 100% connection to every server but I'm still disconnecting... anyone else?

Another thing, I often get the 'Hurry up!' beeps before my cards are even visible, on zoom only. Anyone else?